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Originally posted by Frosty
Bombing civilians was necessary, not all troops voluntered, not sure if you've heard of the draft. So by that standard you people feel it ok to shoot troops who didn't volunteer but inhumane to drop bombs on civilians working in the heat of the war machine? Stop contradicting yourselves and I'll get back to you.
Originally posted by Frosty
Bombing civilians was necessary, not all troops voluntered, not sure if you've heard of the draft. So by that standard you people feel it ok to shoot troops who didn't volunteer but inhumane to drop bombs on civilians working in the heat of the war machine? Stop contradicting yourselves and I'll get back to you.
Originally posted by Netchicken
It would be a form of poetic justice I suppose
[edit on 7-8-2005 by Netchicken]
Originally posted by Netchicken
Jam, if your read my post more closely, I said "you live in an indolent and self focused society". I was not making a personal attack, not unless you take it personally that is.
Gee, excuse me if I actually try and take, what I now gather is an "idealistic" stance and not a real one, and challange that.
I guess the shock of bringing such airhead views to earth must really affect people. I am dreadfully sorry if your idealism doesn't stand up to scrutiny and analysis as an actual path that may have been undertaken in reality, but thats not my problem.
Originally posted by Netchicken
How would you act, if the options were to either tell the families at home that their sons died because we didn't want to hurt any more of the enemy than necessary in a war that America didn't even start, or to be able to send home tens of thousands of men alive to their families, to carry on with their lives?
DWIGHT EISENHOWER
"...in [July] 1945... Secretary of War Stimson, visiting my headquarters in Germany, informed me that our government was preparing to drop an atomic bomb on Japan. I was one of those who felt that there were a number of cogent reasons to question the wisdom of such an act. ...the Secretary, upon giving me the news of the successful bomb test in New Mexico, and of the plan for using it, asked for my reaction, apparently expecting a vigorous assent.
"During his recitation of the relevant facts, I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives. It was my belief that Japan was, at that very moment, seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of 'face'. The Secretary was deeply perturbed by my attitude..."
HERBERT HOOVER
On May 28, 1945, Hoover visited President Truman and suggested a way to end the Pacific war quickly: "I am convinced that if you, as President, will make a shortwave broadcast to the people of Japan - tell them they can have their Emperor if they surrender, that it will not mean unconditional surrender except for the militarists - you'll get a peace in Japan - you'll have both wars over."
Richard Norton Smith, An Uncommon Man: The Triumph of Herbert Hoover, pg. 347.
On August 8, 1945, after the atomic bombing of Hiroshima, Hoover wrote to Army and Navy Journal publisher Colonel John Callan O'Laughlin, "The use of the atomic bomb, with its indiscriminate killing of women and children, revolts my soul."
quoted from Gar Alperovitz, The Decision to Use the Atomic Bomb, pg. 635.
"...the Japanese were prepared to negotiate all the way from February 1945...up to and before the time the atomic bombs were dropped; ...if such leads had been followed up, there would have been no occasion to drop the [atomic] bombs."
- quoted by Barton Bernstein in Philip Nobile, ed., Judgment at the Smithsonian, pg. 142
GENERAL DOUGLAS MacARTHUR
MacArthur biographer William Manchester has described MacArthur's reaction to the issuance by the Allies of the Potsdam Proclamation to Japan: "...the Potsdam declaration in July, demand[ed] that Japan surrender unconditionally or face 'prompt and utter destruction.' MacArthur was appalled. He knew that the Japanese would never renounce their emperor, and that without him an orderly transition to peace would be impossible anyhow, because his people would never submit to Allied occupation unless he ordered it. Ironically, when the surrender did come, it was conditional, and the condition was a continuation of the imperial reign. Had the General's advice been followed, the resort to atomic weapons at Hiroshima and Nagasaki might have been unnecessary."
William Manchester, American Caesar: Douglas MacArthur 1880-1964, pg. 512.
The critics share three fundamental premises. The first is that Japan's situation in 1945 was catastrophically hopeless. The second is that Japan's leaders recognized that fact and were seeking to surrender in the summer of 1945. The third is that thanks to decoded Japanese diplomatic messages, American leaders knew that Japan was about to surrender when they unleashed needless nuclear devastation.
The critics divide over what prompted the decision to drop the bombs in spite of the impending surrender, with the most provocative arguments focusing on Washington's desire to intimidate the Kremlin. Among an important stratum of American society--and still more perhaps abroad--the critics' interpretation displaced the traditionalist view.
But beginning in the 1970s, we have acquired an array of new evidence from Japan and the United States. By far the most important single body of this new evidence consists of secret radio intelligence material, and what it highlights is the painful dilemma faced by Truman and his administration. In explaining their decisions to the public, they deliberately forfeited their best evidence.
There are a good many more points that now extend our understanding beyond the debates of 1995.
But it is clear that all three of the critics' central premises are wrong. The Japanese did not see their situation as catastrophically hopeless. They were not seeking to surrender, but pursuing a negotiated end to the war that preserved the old order in Japan, not just a figurehead emperor. Finally, thanks to radio intelligence, American leaders, far from knowing that peace was at hand, understood--as one analytical piece in the "Magic" Far East Summary stated in July 1945, after a review of both the military and diplomatic intercepts--that "until the Japanese leaders realize that an invasion can not be repelled, there is little likelihood that they will accept any peace terms satisfactory to the Allies." This cannot be improved upon as a succinct and accurate summary of the military and diplomatic realities of the summer of 1945.
Originally posted by Netchicken
So outdated quotes are surpassed by new information. I won't post any more points, Edsinger did a good job of that back on page2, but if you want to broaden your knowledge of the time, instead of staying stuck in a politically correct hug-a-whale-and-plant-a-disabled-lesbian-tree pacisfist view, then read it.
Originally posted by cmdrkeenkid
You're not the only one annoyed by it. The dropping of the bomb was entirely justified and anyone who speaks otherwise simply must not know thier history.
People and thier attempts to revise history to make the US and her allies seem as "evil" are really out of whack.
Originally posted by MagicaRose
War is WRONG!
It is no wonder that so many people in the world HATE Americans!
It's ok for the USA to have Nukes and Bio weapons but God forbid if any other country wants them!
The Philippines are ours forever...and just beyond the Philippines are China's illimitable markets...the Pacific is our ocean.
The power that rules the Pacific is the power that rules the world...That power is and will forever be the American Republic.
We are the ruling race of the world. We will not renounce our part in the mission of our race, trustee, Under God of the civilization of the world...He has marked us as his chosen people...He has made us adept in government that we may administer government among savage and senile peoples
Senator Albert Beveridge (Indiana)
Beveridge cited in Rubin Westin, Racism in U.S. Imperalism
quoted from Addicted to War by Joel Andreas.
I take it then that should anyone ever invade your country, you would expect your fellow citizens to relax on their porches and take the rampage and killing of your brethren in stride.
60 years on from Hiroshima it seems very PC to critisize the dropping of the bomb, but released transcripts of the messages between the japanese leaders shows that they would have "unleashed hell" had America tried to invade Japan.