Originally posted by Amuk
This is a carry over from another thread.
The Question is can you be a Jew and a Christian? Was Jesus a Jew or a Christian?
To me being Jewish is a Religion, the original Jews were middle eastern and my Grandmother was a Jew. (yes all you little Neo-Nazis caught me, I AM a
jew.....LOL) She was a Blond haired Blue-Eyed German as was her Brothers. All are now in the USA and most are now Christians. How could they be
As for Jesus, it was my understanding he wasn't worshiped till AFTER he rose from the grave, so he couldn't be considered a Christian himself could
[edit on 5-8-2005 by Amuk]
First, I must thank you (Amuk) for moving the thread from the other forum to its rightful home
I would like to explain who Jesus is from a Jewish perspective:
Jesus was raised as an orthodox Jew (circumcised on 8th day, Luke 2:21) Jesus's real name was Yeshua (there is no "J" in Hebrew). Second most
common name being Joseph (Jesus's father); Mary (most common name among women) was Jesus's mother. Both parents were Jews/Hebrews. Jesus had five
brothers: James (Ya'qov), Simon (Shim'on), Judah (Yehudah), Joses (Yosef), Thomas (Toma'), and two sisters: Rachel (Rakhel) and Lea (Le'ah).
Jesus was raised in Jewish law (Luke 2:22, Jesus was presented to the Lord in the Jerusalem Temple). Jesus education: at age 5, ready for the written
Torah; at age 10, study oral Torah; at age 20, pursue a vocation; at age 30, enter one's full vigor (Mishnah, Avot, 5:21). Furthermore, lessons began
with the Book of Leviticus at age 5/6; higher education at 15 where one would embark on theological discussion with learned teachers or Rabbis
(Mishnah, Aboth 5:21). Jesus had worn the tsitsith or tassel as in Numbers 15:37-41, Matthew 9:20, 14:36, and Luke 8:44), or he may have worn the
tephillin or phylacteries as in Deuteronomy 6:8 (small boxes bound to the arm and head containing scriptual verses; Jesus criticised the phylacteries
as exhibitionism (Matthew 23:5), a practice later condemned by Rabbis. Jesus did celebrate Passover (Pesach) as in Luke 2:41-43, a tradition Jesus
continued (John 12:12, Mark 14:12-26). Jesus also kept Tabernacles (Sukkoth, booths) as in John 7:1-39. Jesus attended the synagogue every Sabbath
(Luke 4:16), and tithing, fasting and almsgiving. Though Jesus did denounce these practices as excessive. Jesus said grace or a blessing as a Jew as
in Deuteronomy 8:10, Matthew 6:41, 26:26, Luke 24:30 (the traditional blessing being "Barukh attah 'Adonai 'elohenu Melekh ha-dam ha-motsi lechem
meen ha-arets' (Blessed are You, our Lord God, King of the Ages/Universe, who brings forth bread from the earth). Jesus was not ashamed to call
himself a Jew as in John 4:22.
Jesus ministry lasted about 3 years. As his teachings and his influence on the Jewish people were perceived as threatening by the Jewish Priests
(Sanhedrin). Eventually, Jewish leaders pressured the Romans, who occupied the region, to condemn Jesus to death (Jewish law for blasphemy was
The Pharisees composed the majority of the Sanhedrin. It was not blasphemous to declare oneself a Messiah or Son of God; blasphemy could only be
applied to anyone who claimed to be God Almighty (John 5:18-19), Jesus declared himself as the Messiah, and his desire to ascend to the throne of
David, an act of sedition against Rome.
Sanhedrin judged accused lawbreakers but could not intiate arrests. It required a minimum of two witnesses to convict a suspect; there were no
attorneys. Instead, the accusing witnesses stated the offense in the presence of the accused and the accused could call witnesses on his own behalf;
the court questioned the accused, the accusers and defense witness. It was the final authority in Jewish law, and any scholar who went against its
deicisions was put to death as a rebellious elder (zaken mamre). Sanhedrin was led by a president called the nasi, a vice president called the av bet
din, and 69 other sages who sat in a semicircle facing the leaders; the Sanhedrin dealt with religious and ritualistic temple matters, criminal
matters pertaining to the secular court, proceedings in connection with the discovery of a corpse, trials of adulterous wives, tithes, preparation of
Torah Scrolls for the king and Temple, drawing up the calender, solving the difficulties relating to ritual law.
Jesus was brought before the Sanhedrin, presided over by the high priest Joseph Caiaphas (Mishnah 7.4, capital punishment for a blasphemer; Mark 14:64
regarded a blasphemer to be condemned to death).
Sanhedrin condemned Jesus for he was claiming that God was "His own father, amking Himself equal with God" John 5:17-19 (or John 5-47); he broke the
sabbath and claiming God was his own father equals blasphemy.
Jesus was born to Jewish parents, he was raised a religious Jew, and he died as a (in his eyes) a religious Jew.
My own Rabbi here in Tulsa, Rabbi Weg understands my position with being an atheist, after much discussion, he always invites me to his synagogue, he
sends me newsletters about upcoming holidays, and I am welcome to discuss my being a Jewish atheist with him at any time. Even he said, that, even
though I am an atheist, I am still Jewish (he said, as long as your mother is Jewish). My mother was Jewish, my father was Jewish, and my grandparents
on both sides of the family were orthodox Jews. (see my thread in the New World Order under the caption: As A Jew, Allow Me To Tell It Like It Is)
If i decided to convert to Catholicism, I would still be a Jew; the priest would introduce me as a new convert to the Catholic Church even though he
is Jewish by birthright (I just wanted to use this as an example)...which leads me into the next part:
Even though by belief and culture I consider myself an atheist Jew, I have on my birth certificate (as like Jesus above), on the 8th day, I was
circumcised, and blessed by a Rabbi. If I did support the State of Israel, I could show my birth certificate (only the birth certificate is required)
to the Israeli authorities, and even though I am an atheist, with that one piece of paper, I would become automatically an Israeli-Jew (atheist). I
am a Jew by birthright, all else is a choice I made many years after my birth. I was born a Jew, not by choice; I chose being an atheist, yet my
birthright remains the same.
Also, having been born in America, that makes me an American-Jew (or American-Hebrew). If I were in Russia (like my father's father and mother were
during the pogroms at the turn of the 20th century), I would be called a Russian-Jew (and in Russia, if I were born there, when I was born in America
in 1958), being a Russian-Jew and atheist would have been absolutely no problem
But I am an American-Jew (born in America, birthright is Jewish).
If I were in Israel (or like I say, Israhel*) I would be an Israeli-Jew born in America who prefers not to practice the Jewish faith (Judaism) or live
as an atheist amongst other Jews (believe me-you, if the zionist bs is stripped away, and all the religious teachings and practices are put into
perspective, I'd get along with another Jew in Israel).
I am here writing this reply because my family was able to survive persecution over centuries. The Jewish Homeland as a refuge for Jews who may be or
are being persecuted is all but smoke and mirrors. Israel has turned into a military-economic geopolitical state that serves the interests of Europe
and America. Israel is not for the Jews, as a refuge. The Orthodox Jews in Israel condemn the State (they've lived there since Abraham). Zionism
contradicts Judaism. The entire idea for a Jewish Homeland has and is being ransacked for a New World Order that is intent on getting the whole world
under their control, owning each and everyone one of us, regrdaless of who starves, dies, and/or is persecuted. If I were a religious Jew I would not
have supported Israel for it'd be a disgrace as a Jew who must humble himself and wait for the coming of the Moshiach (Messiah).
I spit in Sharon's face.
(if there are any typos, just ignore them, thanks)