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Darwinist ape-man vs. extraterrestrials

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posted on Aug, 5 2005 @ 07:04 PM
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Originally posted by thepostman
Many scientists accept that we are so alike a double helix could form and a hybrid or humanzee could result. In the order of apes a chimp genetically is nearer to us and yet it can be hybridised with a gorilla.


I'm sorry, but this makes no sense to me whatsoever. Could you explain please?




posted on Aug, 5 2005 @ 07:20 PM
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Originally posted by thepostman
In the order of apes a chimp genetically is nearer to us and yet it can be hybridised with a gorilla.

There have never been any hybrids amoung the great apes (that includes man). There are no manpanzees, Chimprillas, or Gorhumanswhatever.



posted on Aug, 5 2005 @ 08:47 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
[Again, where is the evidence that evolution is wrong or that aliens exist?


It's unlikely that both scenarios could be true. The premise of evolution is that life happened by pure chance. If that were the case the odds of everything necessary for life falling into place again and again are slim. And that's why many evolutionists have difficulty believing that other earths have produced super intelligent beings----since it took billions of years for mankind to reach this point in the evolutionary ladder.

Evolution is complete and utter nonsense. The whole principle is ridiculous. The only reason anyone believes in evolution, is first because that is all that is taught in the schools, and second, people that have abandon the religion angle need something to fill the gap----where did we come from?

The answer and the truth as usual, are very simple----humans and all life, plant and animal, were seeded by other intelligent life from other star systems.

A large tree produces billions of seeds which are carried by the wind and digestive tracks of animals that have eaten them----to far away places.

These seeds take root and turn into trees and the process repeats forever.

The universe did not begin with a bang fourteen billion years ago, it’s been around ceaselessly, and like a tree puts forth seed in a never ending dance with eternity.

Proof is all around; however the ability to see it rest with the individual, no one can make anyone see it.



posted on Aug, 5 2005 @ 11:00 PM
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Proof of evolution is all around us as well. Is it not true that animals, regardless of species, adapt to their surroundings, so as to better survive? Was not the dog bred from the wolf? Was not the domestic cat bred from the great cats of the world?

I remember reading somewhere that human women, for instance, didn't always have larger, pronounced breasts. Early in human evolution, the breasts on women were no larger than the chests of men. They only enlarged during pregnancy to provide milk for the child, and when lactation was no longer necessary, they shrunk back to the virtually flat state they were in before pregnancy. However, over time, men preferred women that had larger breasts, thus is was typically these women that men mated with, passing on the genetic code for larger breasts to the offspring. Over time, women evolved to have the breasts we commonly associate with the female form. This is evolution. (I don't remember the source for this offhand, so I will look for it and post it when I find it)

It is stated that as humans became more intelligent and relied more on tools for survival, rather than physical attributes, we lost our body hair, our muscle mass decreased, and our brain size increased to aid in our survival.

There is evidence to link all animals on the planet together. Look at the skeletal structure of most land-based mammals, for instance. A dog's forelegs are built just like a human arm. A dog's paws equate to the fingers and knuckles of a human hand. The lowest joint in the dog's front leg equates to the human wrist. The upper joint is the same as the human elbow. In addition to that, the lower segment of a dog's foreleg (between the elbow and the wrist) contains two bones, just like humans, while the upper section of the foreleg contains only one bone, ending in a ball joint. The shoulder blade is positioned the same in almost all land-based mammals. The similarities go on.

Genetically, we are very similar to apes, chimps, and pigs. In turn, these animals have genetic similarities to other animals.

These similarities suggest support for both creationism and evolution. However, the stronger evidence for evolution can be seen in many studies of lower life forms concerning their adapatibility to various enviornments. Take a look at the wildlife of Madagascar in Africa. The wildlife on this island has been evolving independently of the rest of the world for thousands of years (there has never, in recorded history, been a land bridge between continental Africa and Madagascar. Many species that exist there are thought to have been introduced through swimming, flying, or "hitching" a ride on some flotsam). All species of animals on the island are very similar to other species around the world. However, despite these similarities, there are marked differences - enough to consider most species of animals of this island their own distinct species. Seventy percent of the plantlife here is unique to the island, almost all of the reptile and amphibian life there is unique, all 33 species of lemur there are unique to the island, and half of the bird species are unique.

Even if that first spark of life was created by either divine intervention or other extra-terrestrial intelligence, surely the evolution of life on this little island is proof positive of evolution. The study of the wildlife on Madagascar is a microcosm study, and can easilly be applied to the macrocosm of the planet Earth.

Read about life on Madagascar, and tell me you still think evolution is an invalid concept.

Madagascar Evolution from PBS
Unique wildlife on Madagascar from World Wildlife Fund

That should get you started.



posted on Aug, 6 2005 @ 05:06 AM
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The answer and the truth as usual, are very simple----humans and all life, plant and animal, were seeded by other intelligent life from other star systems.


Here is the flaw in your logic. Lets assume you are correct about the Earth. That still does not solve the problem of where the Aliens came from? Somewhere along the line you have still come down to two choices, either life just happens under certain conditions, or you believe in some Diety.

Personally I prefer the former because I have found little evidence of the latter.

I am not all that fond of the Big Bang theory either and I also believe that the Universe simply exists and had no beginning. This is hard for humans to understand because in our lives everything has a beginning and an end.

While I accept Evolution for many reasons I do think there has been other influences along the way. From my studies of Religon and History I find traces of things that just do not fit into a 'humans only' pattern. At various times in our past things have undergone radical changes and there are elements in religion that really make me wonder if they are not stories of Aliens visiting and influencing our development.

Today we know a fair amount about the human mind works, not everything to be sure but a reasonable amount. When confronted with something for which we have no reference we substitute something we can understand. It is quite easy, for example, to take the Norse myths and rewrite them as Alien encounters. These things exist above and beyond the normal human reasons for creating a religion. By that I mean take out the wisdom that is repeated time and time again by all religions and just look at what is left.

I am not saying that all religions are based on Aliens, the way we copy and repeat it would only really take one group to spawn all the rest.

A.T
(-)



posted on Aug, 6 2005 @ 06:06 AM
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Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by thepostman
In the order of apes a chimp genetically is nearer to us and yet it can be hybridised with a gorilla.

There have never been any hybrids amoung the great apes (that includes man). There are no manpanzees, Chimprillas, or Gorhumanswhatever.



Well considering human sperm cells can in theory penetrate the egg wall of even a gibbon gorilla's and chimpanzee's COULD be hybridised even with a little help along the way. Chimeric research raises alot of sensitive issues for obvious reasons but gorilla's and chimpanzee's are able to cross breed and there is evidence of this in the congo with chimp/gorilla like apes that share characteristics of both species. I suggest u look into chimeric research and the origins of apes.

[edit on 6-8-2005 by thepostman]



posted on Aug, 6 2005 @ 09:35 AM
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Originally posted by Alexander Tau


The answer and the truth as usual, are very simple----humans and all life, plant and animal, were seeded by other intelligent life from other star systems.


Here is the flaw in your logic. Lets assume you are correct about the Earth. That still does not solve the problem of where the Aliens came from? Somewhere along the line you have still come down to two choices, either life just happens under certain conditions, or you believe in some Diety.



When and where life began in the universe is not knowable. However, to believe it all began here on planet earth-----we are the center of the universe type of thing that Darwinist tend to think is just plain egotistic.

A single deity doesn’t clear it up either----where did it come from----these are all old arguments that have no answers.

My two cents is that earth is only one of billions of planets with humans----human and other types of intelligent life are not unique but abundant throughout the universe.

Evolution is only a feel good philosophy as is religion. Fossils are like the ancient temples they only serve to convince those that already believe.



posted on Aug, 6 2005 @ 10:35 AM
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Originally posted by sleeper
My two cents is that earth is only one of billions of planets with humans----human and other types of intelligent life are not unique but abundant throughout the universe.

Evolution is only a feel good philosophy as is religion. Fossils are like the ancient temples they only serve to convince those that already believe.


This does not discount the idea of evolution. It's quite likely that life has developed on many different planets, evolved completely independently of each other, and thus provides the current life on a given planet. It's thought that life on Earth started in the primordial soup which contained all of the building blocks of life, and with the creation of single celled organisms, the process of evolution began. Nowhere in Darwinianism does it state that Earth is the only planet capable of supporting life, nor does it state that humans are the most intelligent form of life. It simply provides a rather logical explanation to where life came from on this planet.

Fact is, when Darwin was forming this theory, no other planets were known to have life, so this theory couldn't be tested on any form of extraterrestrial life. To this day, there's no hard proof of life on other planets. Statistically, the chances are very good, but until we are able to actually prove it, we can't be certain. Logically, however, if evolution happened on Earth, it's quite likely to have happened in a similar fashion on another planet that bears life.



posted on Aug, 6 2005 @ 11:32 AM
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Originally posted by obsidian468

This does not discount the idea of evolution. It's quite likely that life has developed on many different planets, evolved completely independently of each other, and thus provides the current life on a given planet. It's thought that life on Earth started in the primordial soup which contained all of the building blocks of life, and with the creation of single celled organisms, the process of evolution began. Nowhere in Darwinianism does it state that Earth is the only planet capable of supporting life, nor does it state that humans are the most intelligent form of life. It simply provides a rather logical explanation to where life came from on this planet.



As you know nothing is going to discount the belief in god to those who believe in god.

Same with Darwinism----those that believe in evolution will find evidence everywhere they look and no one can discount or take that away from them.

I believe in the primordial soup thing, I just believe it was catered (I would say I know it was but then people would look at me funny).



posted on Feb, 20 2008 @ 05:06 AM
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Hello Sleeper,

Man I sure miss ya posting…………


Hey I was looking for something on the net and came across this and I think it fits nicely on this thread.

If you read this hole article you can see how the great minds of our past did not want to accept THE BIG BANG theory because it was to religious…………..



The Big Bang did not gain easy acceptance. Like any dramatic new concept in science, it had to be tested against the evidence and alternative hypotheses. Opponents adopted the Steady State theory of the Universe which proposed that the Universe stayed fundamentally the same over time. Since the galaxies were clearly moving apart from each other, the theory suggested that new galaxies must be constantly formed somewhere in the Universe and propelled outwards. But Steady State theorists could not explain where many of the chemical elements we see in the Universe could have been formed, if not in the extreme conditions of the Big Bang. They also struggled to explain where the hydrogen fuel to create these elements was being formed in the Universe, and why there was so much helium in the cosmos – the leftovers of hydrogen fusion. But the Big Bang Theory could answer that hydrogen was created in gigantic quantities in the original explosion, and the helium was part of the aftermath. The jury came back in and a new consensus was formed.


Here is the site

I wonder if the scientists of today are going to go back to the idea of an always being stationary vers so it will fit the quantum string theory better………..



Sleeper ROCKS!!.......



The existence of God, of course, is not settled by the truth of the Big Bang Theory, nor should religion rest its case on any scientific theory. But what can be said is that the Big Bang fits surprisingly well with the religious idea that the Universe had a distinct beginning,




[edit on 20-2-2008 by Izarith]



posted on Feb, 20 2008 @ 11:00 AM
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reply to post by sleeper
 


Some of your statements regarding apes are flawed. They are simple animals but not as simple as you made them out to be. Come back with a detailed report concerning ape psychology, including all aspects of ape behavior that both support and do not support your position. Only then will it be any more than campaign rhetoric for your belief system.

Otherwise, you are just cherry picking ideas that support your pre-held beliefs. And that does not interest an impulsive, flea-grooming, nose picking scientist like me. I do not assume evolution is any more than a theory. But I like to see the full hand of cards before I buy into someone else's beliefs. And I don't think those who cherry pick a strong statement to motivate responses to a post, over scholarship, are doing much good at all.

Scientific inquiry into the similarities and differences between the human species and separate, non-ancestral present hominids such as chimpanzees suggests a far more subtle, and interesting picture than your provocative attention grabbing opening post. As an author who has down extensive research in the past, what are your opinions on current primate behavior experiments?

p.s. If we put you in a cage for 20 years would you do any more than eat your own dung and pick your back? Ask John McCain.

[edit on 20-2-2008 by Ectoterrestrial]

[edit on 20-2-2008 by Ectoterrestrial]



posted on Feb, 20 2008 @ 11:41 AM
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reply to post by sleeper
 


First, let me say that moral or value judgments such as you are making here have little influence on scientific inquiry into human origins.

The scientific search for our origins has yielded quite a lot of information. We don't know everything about human origins, but we know quite a lot. We have many hominid fossils, stone tools, and genetic data that point to an African origin consistent with the fossil data. The genetic data are unambiguous -we are VERY closely related to African chimpanzees. If your claim is that this is all a big multigenerational hoax perpetrated by many thousands of scientists from all over the world - I think the burden of proof is on you.

That said, your value judgments are dubious at best. The vicious, self-righteous savagery we humans inflict upon even the youngest members of our own species is far worse than anything our cousins the great apes do to each other.

Don't high hat the monkey!



posted on Feb, 20 2008 @ 12:12 PM
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reply to post by sleeper
 


This conflates two common misconceptions: That evolution is a theory of the origin of life, and that evolution is completely random.

Also, the reason people accept evolution is because of overwhelming evidence, not because of mindless acceptance of received dogma. Your hypothesis that life was brought here from another planet full blown and did not evolve is immediately refuted by the fossil record.

I recommend the Evolution 101 podcast for an excellent and accessible summary of the evidence for evolution - especially that compelling evidence that is found within our own cells.



posted on Feb, 20 2008 @ 12:15 PM
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Evolution indeed.....

This thread has been necro'd from the depths of 2005 AD, and not much has changed.



posted on Feb, 20 2008 @ 12:51 PM
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posted on Feb, 20 2008 @ 01:13 PM
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The answer and the truth as usual, are very simple----humans and all life, plant and animal, were seeded by other intelligent life from other star systems.


you still havnt proposed an alternative theory to how the first intelligent beings came about. It sounds like you think god created the first beings and they created everyone else? strange mix you have there

evolutionists believe life is a natural occurence and is likely to be anywhere in the universe where the correct enviroments exist

Simple life(single cell or microbes)> advanced life(plants & animals)> intelligent life (humans).

No scientist or evolutionist claims to know how common these 3 types of life are. It took 500 million years from the start of advanced life for humans to come about on earth. It may never of happened if mammals didnt inherit the earth from dinos.

Science, the thing you most hate, will give us the answers to these questions. ESA have a telescope planned to search for earth type atmospheres around other planets- guess what its called? Darwin!
darwin.esa.int...


[edit on 20-2-2008 by yeti101]



posted on Feb, 20 2008 @ 01:27 PM
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Evolution is complete and utter nonsense. The whole principle is ridiculous. The only reason anyone believes in evolution, is first because that is all that is taught in the schools, and second, people that


Has nothing to do with school...

Look at your fingers and toes. Which is more plausible...?

a) a God created your fingernails and toenails for aesthetic purposes
or
b) they are evolved claws made of the same keratin as other animal claws

What purpose do they serve? What about the ridiculousness of the little toe...???

Geographical isolation shows us how similar creatures evolved to be completely different when separated from their fellows. We can see this in birds, fish, etc., and even in humans in regards to the various racial traits we all developed to deal with our environments (pigmentation in skin, hair color, etc.)

So, to get back in the forum topic...one would also need to consider the evolutionary impact of space travel on man or EBEs...zero G, artificial light, inertia, etc. would likely cause some adaptations over just a few generations.

However, intelligent design starting the mechanism in motion, and evolution are not mutually exclusive. Even one of the most foremost scientists of the modern age, Albert Einstein, was able to study the workings of matter while also believing in God....

[edit on 20-2-2008 by Gazrok]



posted on Feb, 20 2008 @ 02:14 PM
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Humans are the spawns of Neanderthals, but the imprinting those old clans got was from the stars. Refine the genetic structure and the limbitic system.

In the Early stages man needed a more hard sturdy body to immobilize prey in. Proficient killers, to clear the landscape, for a more civilized state of being.

Homo erectus, came in and took over, the land was more to their liking, the world of the Neanderthal was primal but the world they new was becoming alien to them. 'Primitive selection' was there to clean the landscape up, from other animals, or dinosaurs.

An upgrading always takes place until they can leave their world. The sons and daughters of the Universe.

And now that homo erectus is gone, space beings came in now to bring the Earth to 'lightspeed' or GOD SPEED INTERVALS.

You don't remember where you came from for a reason.

It shortens the lifespan of the living, when you know the plot to your demise.

When your left to fend for yourself, then you know you have moved in the right direction.

This means that you are a 'capable society' that has a place in the Universe out there.

When Earth was in its nurturing stages, it was common to have space beings amongst the living.

To help things along. They could gauge the technological means or science of life and know where a civilisation is headed and coax them in for a landing.




[edit on 20-2-2008 by menguard]



posted on Feb, 20 2008 @ 03:59 PM
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reply to post by Ectoterrestrial
 


Hello Ecto,

I think you are the one that needs to come up with a full detailed report concerning ape psychology; after all you’re the one claming that Sleepers statements are flawed.

Is that not the scientific thing to do


I’m only ask because your claming to be a scientist yet your post is not what I would expect from one.......


What I do expect from a scientist is a post with what you are asking from Sleeper.........


I wonder what an ape is thinking when he eats boop and forages for fleas, I think Sigmund Freud would say that the ape is contemplating killing the big ape that did his mom so he can mate with her.......


I ask does anyone on this site want to do the same, I sure don’t.......



posted on Feb, 20 2008 @ 04:16 PM
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reply to post by disownedsky
 




First, let me say that moral or value judgments such as you are making here have little influence on scientific inquiry into human origins.



I don’t think Sleeper is making moral value judgments. What Sleeper is doing is saying flat out we did not come from evolution.

Why is Sleeper saying that?

Because Sleeper says that he has an ET a blue one that comes to him or abducts him and shows him the vers and some of how it began (by some I mean a lot more than we know according to what Sleeper says).

You guys know what you are doing, but people like me are not that dumb sorry.

You pick and choose what to question sleeper on knowing that he cannot give you proof, well let me ask all you scientist this ………

Can you give proof that everything that is here today is here due to evolution?

If you can’t than why do you make moral and value judgments about a man if you can not prove him wrong?.............



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