Is conservatism hostile to democracy?

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posted on Aug, 27 2003 @ 04:52 PM
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How about the exchange of ideas for or against the points?
Conservative & Liberal have their polar extremes, which suck mightily, why not discuss the post for exchange? In the big bad real world, the best way to slam someone is to use a martial arts technique on an intellectual scale. It translates to 'breaking the snakes fangs' = you attack the body part striking you. In debate, break the argument point by point.
Now anyone thinking of the definition of authoritarianism and the states that employ it, know they are conservative to ultra conservative.
It's a start for debate instead of knee jerk slammin' of you know who!




posted on Aug, 27 2003 @ 04:58 PM
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BT, mainly because the one we are trying to "exchange with" refuses to look outside his own version of reality.
We could quote scholars and post links until our fingers bleed but he will just call us racist liars.
That's why he now just gets "kneejerk" reactions.
Similar to what he would get if he spoke to anyone in the physical (as opposed to cyber) world the way he does here.

There's my answer as to why.



posted on Aug, 27 2003 @ 05:11 PM
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Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Of course it is. So is Liberalism.

Liberalism deprives freedom of choice. Liberals cram thier social utopian ideals down peoples throats whether they want them or not, for the greater good. liberalism works towards the goals of well fed and equal slaves.

Everyone is equal if everyone is a slave. Thus, liberalism and its leanings towards socialism and communism.

Liberalism is obviously a threat to freedom and democracy.

Just liek conservatives. They simply take away one set of freedoms, liberals take the other, till were all mindless drones and slaves.


In pure conservatism everyone is imprisoned, their rights stripped away. In pure Liberalism you have every right and it becomes a chaos, a true anarchy. These are politics you are discussing, and no one espouses either. Everyone agrees with you. What people mean, when they say that they are liberal or conservative is that they are mostly one or the other but they believe that you need some control or freedom.

For example: I consider myself liberal and that the common man should be free to do whatever he wants, short of hurting others, yet I believe that corporations should be strictly controlled. Am I liberal, or Conservative?

How many of you believe the opposite, that the ordinary man should be restricted (conservative) and companies free (liberal) or both free (libertarian).

The proper thing to do is to strike a balance that you belive in. I believe in helping others, so I support a socialist economy and a democratic (as yet impossible) government. Others believe in themselves so they think that a free for all capitalist economy will be best for them with a representative democracy (maybe they can be part of the representative part and be more powerful).

So yes, true conservatism is hostile to democracy, as the right to vote would not be allowed. But most conservatives nowadays think that the illusion of a vote is enough and that the illusion of economic betterment is too.

XAOS



posted on Aug, 27 2003 @ 09:18 PM
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Thank you, BT. I never slung mud at anyone on this thread (I am capable of restraining my ire at republicans at times) but the gestapo decided to put the thread here in order to silence me b/c they don't like what I have to say. I know the game (patiently awaiting the next warning). Personally, I thought it would lead to an interesting discussion.

Now onto the comments.



posted on Aug, 27 2003 @ 09:20 PM
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Originally posted by Fry2

We could quote scholars and post links until our fingers bleed but he will just call us racist liars.
That's why he now just gets "kneejerk" reactions.
Similar to what he would get if he spoke to anyone in the physical (as opposed to cyber) world the way he does here.

There's my answer as to why.


You have done none of the above but you have done the "knee-jerk" reaction of attacking the Colonel, a victim of your own accusation.



posted on Aug, 27 2003 @ 09:23 PM
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Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Of course it is. So is Liberalism.

Liberalism deprives freedom of choice. Liberals cram thier social utopian ideals down peoples throats whether they want them or not, for the greater good. liberalism works towards the goals of well fed and equal slaves.

Everyone is equal if everyone is a slave. Thus, liberalism and its leanings towards socialism and communism.

Liberalism is obviously a threat to freedom and democracy.

Just liek conservatives. They simply take away one set of freedoms, liberals take the other, till were all mindless drones and slaves.


Liberalism deprives free choice? Ho so when a basic tenet of liberalism is to allow people to be free to be who they want to be, the pursuit of happiness?

You may not accept how another person is and that is your choice but he is still allowed to be free to be who he wants to be just as you are. So, I don't see it as depriving of free choice or a threat to democracy.



posted on Aug, 27 2003 @ 09:25 PM
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Originally posted by Fury

Originally posted by Colonel
I am not mud-slinging so no need.


there will be soon.
lemme ask you a few questions,

Do you believe in stopping illegal immigrants?
yes, or no?

Do you believe we should ban guns?
yes or no?

do you believe in freedom of speech?
yes or no?

do you Believe we should have a death penalty?
yes or no?


I await your responces colonel.


1) Yes. I don't believe people should be rewarded for illegality.

2) No.

3) Yes. I wish that tenet operated at ATS.

4. This is most difficult. In theory, yes. In practice, no.



posted on Aug, 27 2003 @ 09:28 PM
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Originally posted by xaos

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Of course it is. So is Liberalism.

Liberalism deprives freedom of choice. Liberals cram thier social utopian ideals down peoples throats whether they want them or not, for the greater good. liberalism works towards the goals of well fed and equal slaves.

Everyone is equal if everyone is a slave. Thus, liberalism and its leanings towards socialism and communism.

Liberalism is obviously a threat to freedom and democracy.

Just liek conservatives. They simply take away one set of freedoms, liberals take the other, till were all mindless drones and slaves.


In pure conservatism everyone is imprisoned, their rights stripped away. In pure Liberalism you have every right and it becomes a chaos, a true anarchy. These are politics you are discussing, and no one espouses either. Everyone agrees with you. What people mean, when they say that they are liberal or conservative is that they are mostly one or the other but they believe that you need some control or freedom.

For example: I consider myself liberal and that the common man should be free to do whatever he wants, short of hurting others, yet I believe that corporations should be strictly controlled. Am I liberal, or Conservative?

How many of you believe the opposite, that the ordinary man should be restricted (conservative) and companies free (liberal) or both free (libertarian).

The proper thing to do is to strike a balance that you belive in. I believe in helping others, so I support a socialist economy and a democratic (as yet impossible) government. Others believe in themselves so they think that a free for all capitalist economy will be best for them with a representative democracy (maybe they can be part of the representative part and be more powerful).

So yes, true conservatism is hostile to democracy, as the right to vote would not be allowed. But most conservatives nowadays think that the illusion of a vote is enough and that the illusion of economic betterment is too.

XAOS


Good intro, Xaos.



posted on Aug, 27 2003 @ 09:34 PM
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Colonel, Colonel, Colonel, dont you see no one gives a # if you say that you can restrain yourself you have given yourself a record starting threads and conversations that are only proper in the forum. So obviously the mods are going to move a political thread that you are involved with here before it exploads into a hellish nightmare. And there you go painting yourself as a victim and that we all plot against you. And by the way there is no more warnings only bannings. And no they do not warn/ban you for your ideals, but for the ways that you express them. And this entire post is worthless because in one ear and out the other because your stubborn ignorance makes it impossible for you to be wrong.



posted on Aug, 27 2003 @ 09:38 PM
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Originally posted by Colonel

Originally posted by Fury

Originally posted by Colonel
I am not mud-slinging so no need.


there will be soon.
lemme ask you a few questions,

Do you believe in stopping illegal immigrants?
yes, or no?

Do you believe we should ban guns?
yes or no?

do you believe in freedom of speech?
yes or no?

do you Believe we should have a death penalty?
yes or no?


I await your responces colonel.


1) Yes. I don't believe people should be rewarded for illegality.

2) No.

3) Yes. I wish that tenet operated at ATS.

4. This is most difficult. In theory, yes. In practice, no.


Congrats colonel! you're more conservative then most republicans.



posted on Aug, 27 2003 @ 09:41 PM
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Originally posted by NinjaoftheNight
Colonel, Colonel, Colonel, dont you see no one gives a # if you say that you can restrain yourself you have given yourself a record starting threads and conversations that are only proper in the forum. So obviously the mods are going to move a political thread that you are involved with here before it exploads into a hellish nightmare. And there you go painting yourself as a victim and that we all plot against you. And by the way there is no more warnings only bannings. And no they do not warn/ban you for your ideals, but for the ways that you express them. And this entire post is worthless because in one ear and out the other because your stubborn ignorance makes it impossible for you to be wrong.


Oh, no. You're wrong. They send to your mail box. I got one after the new rules (or was it two).

You do plot against me. I have emails from observers that can see it--no I won't post them.

But, none of this is the point of the thread. If you have some mud to sling, create or use another thread. I will not sully this one.



posted on Aug, 27 2003 @ 09:44 PM
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Well i wouldnt know i dont get warned. Im interested to see if this little expirement will work. *stands back and laughs*



posted on Aug, 27 2003 @ 09:45 PM
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Originally posted by Fury
Congrats colonel! you're more conservative then most republicans.


No, I don't think so. Those 4 views do not a conservative make. I don't believe in a strong police force because I don't like big brother---as we have now. I don't like authortarianism. I don't like corporations gone wild like we have now with de-regulation. I don't believe in free trade without labor laws. I still feel unions are needed because a corporation's main drive is greed and it will cheat the common worker if not for unions.

No, I'm not a conservative.

[Edited on 28-8-2003 by Colonel]



posted on Aug, 27 2003 @ 11:48 PM
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Originally posted by Colonel

Originally posted by Fury
Congrats colonel! you're more conservative then most republicans.


No, I don't think so. Those 4 views do not a conservative make. I don't believe in a strong police force because I don't like big brother---as we have now. I don't like authortarianism. I don't like corporations gone wild like we have now with de-regulation. I don't believe in free trade without labor laws. I still feel unions are needed because a corporation's main drive is greed and it will cheat the common worker if not for unions.

No, I'm not a conservative.

[Edited on 28-8-2003 by Colonel]


Ok, so most republicans don't believe in all that either?
lmao
face it colonel, you're a republican



posted on Aug, 28 2003 @ 04:40 AM
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Originally posted by Fury

Originally posted by Colonel

Originally posted by Fury
Congrats colonel! you're more conservative then most republicans.


No, I don't think so. Those 4 views do not a conservative make. I don't believe in a strong police force because I don't like big brother---as we have now. I don't like authortarianism. I don't like corporations gone wild like we have now with de-regulation. I don't believe in free trade without labor laws. I still feel unions are needed because a corporation's main drive is greed and it will cheat the common worker if not for unions.

No, I'm not a conservative.

[Edited on 28-8-2003 by Colonel]


Ok, so most republicans don't believe in all that either?
lmao
face it colonel, you're a republican


No, republicans do not believe in that.


They believe in lots of laws and police to enforce them.


They believe in an obidient citizen.


They believe in letting a corporation run free, so long as they get a piece of the action


They believe in free trade and corporations using slave labor in foreign countries and depriving Americans of jobs.


They think that unions are bad. Case in point: Reagan's ruthless disbanding of the ATC union.


And they believe that Colonel is an evil pinko commie scum and should be wiped off the face of the earth.


At least the leaders of the republican party believe this, the rest of you are just sheep.

Baaaaahhhh.

XAOS

p.s. My new favorite word is sheepublicans.
Baahh. Baaaaaahhh



posted on Aug, 28 2003 @ 04:42 AM
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And now for Fury's Four furious questions. I wont get into it here, but it is quite obvious that colonel is a liberal and not a sheepublican. or a sheepugnant for that matter.


XAOS



posted on Aug, 28 2003 @ 02:54 PM
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Face the facts, the colonel is a republican.
welcome to our fold... colonel.



posted on Aug, 28 2003 @ 02:59 PM
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Originally posted by Fury
Face the facts, the colonel is a republican.
welcome to our fold... colonel.



i wouldnt go so far as to call him a republican, but he's more conservative than he believes himself to be. thats all i'll say on this for now.



posted on Aug, 28 2003 @ 03:26 PM
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Fury is just Bullcrapping, dont even give him the time of day on this topic.

Can all you sheepublicans do is try to assimilate him, it wont work, so lets get back to the topic at hand, shall we?

XAOS



posted on Aug, 28 2003 @ 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by xaos
Fury is just Bullcrapping, dont even give him the time of day on this topic.

Can all you sheepublicans do is try to assimilate him, it wont work, so lets get back to the topic at hand, shall we?

XAOS


this coming from a person who said they were going to support colonel just for a goof.



not even remotely close to being amusing let alone funny.

ever heard "dont feed the animals"???

dont encourage the colonel. its a bad thing.





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