This is a particularly personal subject for me as I'm a former and as I'm starting to suspect, not totally recovered anorexic. And therefore I ask any jokers amongst you to be a little sensitive before posting anything that takes the p1ss.

Eating disorders are not simply about fat women wanting to be thin, or thin women seeing a fat woman in the mirror. They are complex and extremely hard to treat psychological disorders, which are on the increase especially in men and children.

The media has received a lot of blame for promoting unrealistic images and upping the pressure on society to have perfect bodies and perfect lives. Its been mainly the fashion industry, but I think the soft porn industry is equally if not more responsible. Not many of us want to look like clothes hangers, but most of us like to think we're sexually attractive to the opposite gender.

I know this a conspiracy forum not a mental health one, so I'd like to ask how many of you think the attack on our self esteem is partially deliberate? Not only does it keep women in particular locked up in their own problems but it furthers the profits of the big pharmaceutical and cosmetics giants (who are virtually owned by about 2 or 3 global corporations).

I fight this by hardly ever watching tv, not buying woman's magazines, not supporting the soft porn industry (hard core bothers me less cos the people tend to be more 'real') and generally going out of my way to avoid conforming to stereotypes.

any thoughts?

Well i am also a recovering anorexic, ive been recovering for 5 years ...though i am not thin now, but average i still find it hard not to go back....

My reasons were that i was attacked, after that i blamed myself...thought maybe if i was not fat or ugly he would of not attacked me..
I know now that this was wrong ..

but like you said its a fight, so mags, tv like you i try not to look at to much...

I see it as a form of mind control. Control womens minds, and stuff, then men. An experiment, really, to turn nature on its head. Influence what is considered attarctive and healthy.

Years ago, like during the rennisance, look at the art. Back then, a double chin was fashionable, it meant you could afford to eat really good, something desirable back then. Past art shows that the natural, ionstinctive attractiveness in males and females held sway, with the curvy body for females and robust, muscular, strong body for males considered best. Hency, the Greek and Roman art, showing people in natural glorified from.

I have often wondered about this. While TV basically shows all these hot, beaitiful women roaming about, it breaks for a commercial for Mc Donalds grease burgers, candy, beer, ect. Its very twsited, really, it screams, youy need to be thin and look good for anyone to care about you, but here, buy our burgers, eat our candy, drink our beer, ect. This double message twisted the human mind, creates confusion, alienation, disorientation, low self esteem.

people then go out and buy diet pills, self help books, go to see a shrink or personal trainer. Its big biz, the improvement of self esteem. I mean, billions of bucks spent. If everyone ate low cal food and liked themselves, think of everyone who would be out of business? its all about money and consumerism.

A [psychologically unhappy and unstable society is one that will cling to things and ideas to make them feel better. Thus, id say its a subtle way of mind control and dependance. i dont think everything that the NWO does is blatant, but many small, seemingly insignifigant things are at work there.

I used to be bulemic as a little kid, I still have tendancies towards it. I suppose I have grown up thinking food is bad, since i was surrounded by shallow people. I was prety depressed as a kid, and sugar makes people happy because it stimulates you. After dowing a box of cookies, id either puke it up or take alot of laxitives. Eventually I stopped, for various reasons.

But its all a vicous cycle, one i think is meant to target the individual with overwhelimg input and signals, to further scramble the mind and create more distress and insanity amongst people.

thankyou so much to both of you for sharing your thoughts. Skadi you are so right in the self doubt and confusion all these conflicting images create, and it is so hard to avoid them if you are vulnerable.

I'll certainly check out that link on Jill Kilborne, not heard of her or her work but thankyou for posting that link.

Interesting you should mention marijuana as a treatment, as by developing a prolonged and heavy pot habit I did manage to chill out a lot and stop being the repressed and uptight nightmare I was at 17. However i eventually found it was making the depressive tendancies worse, as well as realising I had become essentially an addict to something else. The tantrums when someone took my weed away were comparable only to the ones I used to throw when someone tried to force me to eat....

I'm not so sure its just a feminist issue though, it just started with women. Men are equally at risk of similar problems due to the pressures to be successful, toned, a good and well endowed lover.

Thats one reason Ive dropped out of society and entertainment, all this cross static from media, movies, ect, all is bad input into my mind, making an already delecate balance even worse. I ignore it all, hard for some people to do, but generally, I find myself alot happier once I am tuned out from this madness and cross messages. Thats what I had to do, and i find that tuning out all the useless dross and mind jello of popular culture, fashion, and entertainment allows me to explore new ideas, develop my mind, answer questions, and see life in a whole new perspective.

Thats one reason i have problems talkign to people in social situations, because I have almost no clue as to movies, entertainment, fashion, and current music, whats hot, whats not, ect, only through other sources. Thus, i had no idea terminator three came out until a week or so ago. Couldnt tell you about whats on TV, couldnt tell you who is hot # on MTV.

Pot is a great cure for anorexia, when you think about it, whats one of the most discussed and funniest side efefcts of smoking weed? THE MUNCHIES! Pot has been used to stimulate the appetites of cancer patients and sick people for a long time, and is good for this, it makes almost anyone hungry!

im not a pot smoker, occasional toke here and there..

but aint bongs great!!!

It doesn't just affect women, although there is more focus on this as a women's health issue (and women's health in general).

I co-ordinated one of the first studies with the co-operation of anorexics, some years ago. It has been replicated all around the wrold. The Professor was one of the first to use computer-generated body image testing procedures. Anorexics almost invariably have a massively distorted body image, and tune the settings so that when theu see themselves on screen "as they are" they look stocky-overweight. It is weird to see this happening in front of you.

Also I was very close to a person who went through a twelve step program to overcome eating disorders. Hell to live with, obsessional, a focal point of daily habitual worry, tension and guilt, actually destructive in many areas of her life. She then ran the local organization to help others through the same process.

I would never take the piss out of anyone going through this kind of turmoil.

I'm lucky. I enjoy food, eat as much as I want till I'm not hungry, and don't gain weight unless I drop my dietary standards. I have been up to 270 pounds, but that only looked like a small spare tyre on me.

Youre right, MA, its a distorted self image. I always get told my weight is fine, nothing to worry about, ect, yet when I percieve myself, i percieve myself as overweight and out of shape, thus, binge and purge, binge on the happy foods because im depressed, the wig out and puke em out. Thankfully, I only do this occasionally now, as opposed to every day in my adolecnece.

Ive seen alot of women do the same thing, obseessed with body weight that they cant see how good they look. if they aint centerfolds, the freak out. they see centerfolds and hot chicks, then the see themselves and in thier minds, they add 100 pounds to thier weight and believe they are in need of Jenny craig. Self perception is the most horrifying thing to defeat when twisted, because people can tell you youre fine all you want, but in your eyes and your perception, youre a fat blob. Food becomes your enemy, and in Arcs case, you either deprive yourself of it, or in my case, gorge yourself on it, then eliminate it unnaturally.

When ones view and opinion of self is highly twisted and deeply ingrained, in can be harder to combat that drug addiction, because most peoples truth is based on thier own percpetion.

A twisted cycle, a vicious one, and a potentially fatal one, as Karen Carpenter found out, sadly.

Men seem to have more self esteem, or at least hide thier low esteem better, because I have seen them shamelessly attempt things that women with no esteem would not even dream of. Ive seen literally fat, unwashed, greasy beasts of males hitting on hot hooters girls shamelessly, minus alcohol, of course, and actually be surprised when a female turns them down viciously. Is it that males are more agressive, or do they base thier self opinion on things other than looks?

I think a lot males lack the ability to mimick other veiwpoints (empathy) and this lack of social complexity makes some actions really easy to do (no consquences).

Of course there are exceptions.

I'm probably going to get dismissed out of hand, but self exploration via meditation can really solve all problems. I mean intense mediation and comptemplation.

I'll probably be attacked here like everywhere else but...

Some of us are under weight but everyone thinks it's "wonderful". It's not!
Do you have any idea how much it sucks trying to keep from losing weight? No!!! Almost no one does.

I eat anything I want, as much as I want and whenever I want. I don't gain weight. I have been the same weight since I was 16. The only thing that has changed is I have shrunken (in height). I really only need to eat once a day to stay alive. I like to eat about five times a day.

I never gain a pound over my night time max.

To reference another thread: My enemy is my metabolism

Time to eat

My wife is a "good" sized woman...plus size...no biggie...pun intended. She watches cartoons...because other tv programs and commercials attack a womans self esteem continuously with visions of boney bods and plastic formed mods...hehe...poet. She has spent enough money on diet pills...programs...and work out tapes to buy a nice car. Infomercials are evil...money back guarantee my arse. Men are led to believe that a cold beer will get you a nice looking chick...haha...it's all a big joke. Buy...sell...trade...money!!...makes the world go around...no matter whose esteem they rage a war with.

You can also put some blame on the media for this one.

Think about movies... most of the stories today are about guys getting young and slender women. Even dumpy, middle-aged guys get young and slender women.

Women's roles are reduced to being "cute sidekick." They don't get old (heaven forbid that the young guy falls in love with a woman 10 years older than him) and no fat and frumpy woman gets the guy (I'm talking the female equivalent of Danny DeVito.)

And Bast forbid that you wake up and find yourself 45... or 50... or 55. To judge from movies and tv, you then become the Ditzy Old Woman. Yes, there's exceptions but I think you'll find them rare.

It's pretty distorted.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.... any women up for a bit of research?




(actually, is anyone up for doing a small bit of research (watching tv type research)? This is a SERIOUS request... an experimental research design occurred to me and I think this is a paper I can get published. I need data collectors, however. If interested, please U2U me (because I won't find it on the board here if I forget to check for a day or so))

[Edited on 24-9-2003 by Byrd]

You cant blame anyone for eating disorders as it isnt there fault that they want skinny people for fahion and you dont like it or how men who watch porn dont want fat people. You have to deal with it yourself or ask people for help but it isnt anyones fault atall but if youre the one who doesent like it your the one who has to change.

I think eating disorders are one of many other disorders that people cling to in an attempt to appease their self esteem. Other examples are drugs, smoking, alcohol, porn, cutting themselves (this one is especially hideous), shoplifting when you have lots of money (e.g. Winona Ryder), etc.

Everyone has an addiction/obssession to something. It's unhealthy when it becomes perpetual & destructive in nature.

There are as many causes as there are solutions to these sort of self-defeating problems. I sympathize with those who are still looking for solutions.

Originally posted by Questor
I think eating disorders are one of many other disorders that people cling to in an attempt to appease their self esteem. cutting themselves (this one is especially hideous)

that one's me. well, not anymore, but I've only been 'clean' for 2 months or so. for me, it wasn't really self-esteem. the physical pain was a way to distract my brain from the mental pain for a few seconds. it was about control too, I didn't even feel I was in control of my mind anymore, so it was a way of saying to myself 'hey, you still have control of your body! look!'.

my best friend is bulemic, and I know for her it has a lot to do with control. whenever things seem to get out of control in her life (in her mind...to me it seems like little things not going to plan), she has another flare-up with the bulemia. I hesitate to say that media images are completely at fault. I'm sure they can be a trigger, but for an eating disorder to take hold, there's got to be some deeper issues for them to latch on to.

that's not to exonerate the media, though. the constant messages of 'you're not okay, you're not good enough, pretty enough, thin enough' are frustrating when you're feeling okay. they're absolutely devestating when you're not. insecurity is a great sales tactic. I don't think the media cares what happens to their viewers, as long as they keep watching, keep buying. it makes for a sick, strange popular culture, and one that can be like a minefield.

[Edited on 9/26/2003 by MorningtonCrescent]

I'm a controlled bulemic and I would like to add this regarding the media and images.

the IMAGE they portray of people with eating disorders is always the skinny anorexic, Even those with bulemia are supposed to be skinny and undernourished. NOw I am not saying that those people dont exist . BUt what IS left out is the basic metabolism shut down that a lot of bulemics have , including myself, that gets them to put ON weight as a result of their disorder.

Everyone " knows" that if you have an eating disorder you are supposed to be thin. BUt there are a lot of people out there who have these disorders who arent, and when they admit to someone of their behavior they are ridiculed and told it is all in their head. THis then causes them to withdraw even more and not get the help they seek.

Another thing that isnt addressed often is the chemical changes in the brain that these disorders cause. Often, you begin to get a rush from the constant purging and come to enjoy it. It can be a pleasure sometimes, and then you become addicted to the sensation, which can also prolong the length of time you continue with the disease.