What was the best unit during WWII?

Rogue, I respectfully suggest you search the Pentagon for info on the Brandenburg attack using grenades in the city at Maikop.

I lifted and paraphrased an article held therein to ensure that I did not infringe copyright.

^^^^

lol, ok so I'll just disregard the 5 pages of references including actual transcripts from the debreifings. Of course the Pentagon must be right

PS. Simulating an artillery barage with hand grenades is totally ridiculous. LMAO and didn't happen. So much for your Pentagon source. These are the same people who said the wr was won in Iraq

I'll take the easy road and say the 393rd USBS.

Taken from Third Reich Roundtable – The Brandenburg Commandos

" Adolf Hitler turned his attention south toward the Balkans in Operation Marita and, again, the Brandenburgers--now organized as a regiment--paved the way for his armies. On April 5, 1941, one day before Hitler's invasion of Greece and Yugoslavia, a 54-man detachment from the 2nd Battalion secured the docks at Orsova, on the Danube River. With the Balkans in German hands, the Führer made final preparations for a major assault on Russia.

Considering all their accomplishments, it would be difficult to declare one mission more impressive than another, but there was one occasion when the Brandenburgers seemed to outdo even themselves. In early August 1941, a Brandenburg detachment of 62 Baltic and Sudeten Germans led by Baron Adrian von Fölkersam penetrated farther into enemy territory than any other Brandenburg unit. Nicknamed "the wild bunch," they undertook to secure the oil fields at Maikop. Using Red Army trucks and the uniforms of the NKVD, the Russian secret police, Fölkersam infiltrated the Soviet lines. The Brandenburgers immediately ran into a large group of Red Army deserters, and Fölkersam saw an opportunity to use them. By persuading them to return to the Soviet cause, he was able to join with them and move almost at will through the Russian lines.
Pretending to be a Major Truchin from Stalingrad, Fölkersam explained his role in recovering the deserters to the general in charge of Maikop's defenses. The Russian general believed Fölkersam and gave him a personal tour of the city's defenses the next day. By August 8, the German army was only 12 miles away, so the Brandenburgers made their move. Using grenades to simulate an artillery attack, the Brandenburgers knocked out the communications center of the city. Fölkersam then went to the Russian defenders and told them that a withdrawal was taking place. Having seen Fölkersam with their commander and lacking any communications to rebut or confirm his statement, the Soviets began to evacuate Maikop. The German army entered the city without a fight on August 9, 1942. "

Taken from Geocities.com/pentagon/bunker/3351

" Early in that month, a Brandenburg unit of 62 Baltic and Sudeten Germans, led by Baron Adrian von Fölkersam, penetrated farther into enemy territory than ever before. Their mission was to secure the oil fields at Maikop.Using Red Army trucks and NKVD uniforms, Fölkersam's force infiltrated the Soviet lines and moved towards their target. Soon, however, they ran into a large band of Red Army
deserters. Deciding to try and use this situation to his advantage, Fölkersam persuaded the deserters to return to the Soviet cause, and thus he was able to join with them and move at will through the Russian lines. This journey took him to his destination, Maikop, where he conferred with the city's military commander.Pretending to be a NKVD major from Stalingrad, Fölkersam persuaded the Russian general to give him a personal tour of the city's defenses. With a good knowledge of his target's strengths and weaknesses, Fölkersam formulated a plan for the capture of Maikop.
By August 8, with the German army only 12 miles away, the Brandenburgers made their move. Using grenades to simulate an artillery attack, they knocked out the communications center of the city. Fölkersam then went to the Russian officers and told them that a withdrawal was taking place. Having seen Fölkersam with their commander and lacking any communications with the rest of the Red Army, the Soviets had no choice but to believe Fölkersam's story. The Russians left, and the German army entered Maikop on August 9 1942, without a single hostile shot. "

So perhaps Rogue, I did get it right - or am I still wrong - at least in your opinion?

Well fritz, I only wrote what could be confirmed by multiple reliable sources and disregarded those that couldn't. Whilst most of what you say is true, some of the minor things aren't such as the grenade/artillery barage aren't.
Please refer to my original post on the Brandenburgers for clarification of what happened on the Maikop mission

PS. All I am doing is getting the right information to people and rectifying cetain fallacies about that particular operation.



[edit on 23-8-2005 by rogue1]

They scaled the cliffs at Normandy and took out all of the German Machine Gun nests while sustaining 90% casualties in one day. There were and are no braver men who ever lived. Bud Connors, a family friend, was one of them.

Originally posted by GrndLkNatv
They scaled the cliffs at Normandy and took out all of the German Machine Gun nests while sustaining 90% casualties in one day. There were and are no braver men who ever lived. Bud Connors, a family friend, was one of them.

No doubt they fought well and were brave men, but their war was short. Not the 4 years of fighting against overwhelmiong odds that some German units experienced on the Eastern Front.

The invasion of Western Europe could almost be classed as a side show. at least 80% of German military strength was concentrated against the Soviets. Quite an incredible figur if you think about it.

Originally posted by rogue1
The invasion of Western Europe could almost be classed as a side show. at least 80% of German military strength was concentrated against the Soviets. Quite an incredible figur if you think about it.

But that would make it seem like we didn't have an hard job. Plus the American do like to play up thier role, seem more important in it. Plus the Russians were communist. We all know what the west thinks of that.

D-Day was a hard invasiont though. Very hard. And whatever beach (except Utah, who got lost.) was a challenge and a difficult job.

Best unit? In what categories? Overall, i'd say the 2nd SS Panzer Division. They were good men, and fought well. If you mean the best via kills, etc.

Best as in what? Ho hum, what a general question.

Was the 2nd Waffen-SS Panzer-Grenadier Division 'Das Reich' the best unit of WWII - BEFORE or AFTER they slaughtered 642 men, women and children at Oradur sur Glane?

Originally posted by fritz
Was the 2nd Waffen-SS Panzer-Grenadier Division 'Das Reich' the best unit of WWII - BEFORE or AFTER they slaughtered 642 men, women and children at Oradur sur Glane?

Hmm, well your orignial question implied a units combat record. So ciclian massacres don't come into it.
I will also nominate the 3rd SS Division under Eicke. Some very tough hombres.

Originally posted by fritz
Was the 2nd Waffen-SS Panzer-Grenadier Division 'Das Reich' the best unit of WWII - BEFORE or AFTER they slaughtered 642 men, women and children at Oradur sur Glane?

Before and after? This doesn't affect their combat record in any way, which I wasn't aiming for. Note my question as to WHAT exactally "best" means.

So, were the Allies in WW2 Heroes before or after boming towns with no militray significance?

Seems a few Americans can take care of a lot of Germans during WWII

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am familiar with the history of this plaque, and what it signifies. On December 22, the situation at Bastogne was grim. The city was surrounded. Rifle ammunition and food were in short supply, and artillery ammunition stocks were so low that each gun was rationed to only a few rounds per day. Despite this, morale in the city was high. It was known that reinforcements from Patton were enroute to lift the siege. Morale was also kept high by the presence of the 101st Airborne division, who held the city.

The city was controlled by Brig. Gen. Anthony McAuliffe, acting CO of the 101st. Just before noon on the 22nd, two German officers and two enlisted men delivered an ultimatum under flag of truce. It read in part:

"To the USA Commander of the encircled town of Bastogne: The fortune of war is changing. This time strong German armored units have encircled the USA forces in and near Bastogne ... There is only one possibility to save the encircled USA troops from total annihilation; that is the honorable surrender of of the encircled town ...

If this proposal is rejected, one German Artillery Corps and six heavy AA Batallions are ready to annihilate USA troops ... all the serious civilian losses caused by this artillery fire would not correspond with the well-known American humanity..." -The German Commander

After reading the surrender demand McAuliffe said "Ah Nuts!" and dropped the surrender demand on the floor. Some time later McAuliffe was reminded that the German messengers were still waiting for a reply.

"What should I tell them?" McAuliffe asked his staff/

"That first remark of yours would be hard to beat, General." Remarked an officer.

Later, an amused American Colonel named Harper delivered McAuliffe's official response.

"To the German Commander: Nuts!" - The American Commander.

Although fluent in English, the German officer was unable to understand the reply. When asked if the response meant yes or no, Colonel Harper replied:

"If you don't understand what "nuts" means, in plain English it is the same as "go to hell" - and I will tell you something else, if you continue to attack we will kill every German that tries to break into this city."

To this the German officer merely saluted and replied, "We will kill many Americans..."

Without thinking at all, Colonel Harper responded "On your way bud, and good luck to you!" Harper could never explain what could possibly have possessed him to wish the Germans good luck...

Despite the continued fighting Bastogne received its promised air drop the following day, December 23rd, and the siege was lifted on December 26th.

I was at work today and was talking to an older gentleman who was in the war (in the pacific ),and i asked him this very question.To my surprise,his answer was pattons third army 5th division(red diamonds).So i believe my answer to this thread was correct as in my earlier reply.

To be considered the best i believe you have to win the war.

God bless all the men who gave up their lives and families for our freedom,especially my grand father THOMAS CAROLAN -seargent-3rd army -5th division-mortarman 60mm RED DIAMONDS.

To be considered the best i believe you have to win the war.

The Americans were the best side in Vietnam. They suffered half the losses of those they fought. They were technologically far superior.

They lost.

Therefore, I don't think that statement is correct.

Anyway, I can't debate about Patton's Third Army. They were excellent.

Surely the Russian 62nd Army at Stalingrad deserves a mention, trapped on the wrong side of a massive river with intermittent suipplies and few reinforcements they managed to hold off a German attack for three months while a counterstroke was prepared.

And at no point where they aware of the grand plan, instead with their backs to the wall they fought on. Even with the draconian Soviet system of disipline they kicked some serious arse.

Also the Partisans who fought behind German lines, severing railways and communications, poisoning food and generaly making the Germans life miserable.

Dont forget the USSR got to play too!

Originally posted by Uncle Joe
Surely the Russian 62nd Army at Stalingrad deserves a mention, trapped on the wrong side of a massive river with intermittent suipplies and few reinforcements they managed to hold off a German attack for three months while a counterstroke was prepared.

And at no point where they aware of the grand plan, instead with their backs to the wall they fought on. Even with the draconian Soviet system of disipline they kicked some serious arse.

Dont forget the USSR got to play too!

LOL, they had a choice of either being killed by teh Germans or being killed by the Soviet NKVD officers behind them. All the Soviet command did was send as much meat into the grinder as they could.

An interesting aside, during the height of the 62nd Armies defensive battle, the avaergae life expectancy of a soldier was 20 hours.

LOL, they had a choice of either being killed by the Germans or being killed by the Soviet NKVD officers behind them. All the Soviet command did was send as much meat into the grinder as they could.

And? Does that devalue their achievement? As a unit they were outstanding.
They held the line in nightmarish circunstances. A western army would have crumbled in such a situation.