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Army unit involved in London Tube shooting

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posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 12:51 AM
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Army Unit involved With tube Shooting



A newly-established British army anti-terror special forces unit was involved in the operation in which an innocent Brazilian man was shot dead in London last month, a report said today.

Members of the Special Reconnaissance Regiment, which was set up in April, were involved in the surveillance operation which culminated in the death of Jean Charles de Menezes, The Guardian newspaper said.

Unnamed official sources were cited by the paper as saying the army unit, modelled on undercover units that worked to combat terrorism in Northern Ireland, had taken part in "low-level intelligence behind the scenes" when de Menezes was shot.

However, there was "no direct military involvement in the shooting", the source added.

It was believed to be the first time that the unit, which is trained by the British army's elite SAS special forces section, had been used in a live operation, the newspaper added.

The 27-year-old electrician was shot eight times at close range on July 22 after apparently fleeing police at a London Underground subway station.


Since the story broke I severely doubted the police would have any direct involvment in the shooting. I still think the SAS were the shooters. To have to make such decisions under such circumstances would be an enormous burden to bear.

When dealing with a terrorist threat within UK borders it only makes sense to utilise the counter-terrorist forces trained to deal with such scenarios. Especially when you have the SAS, the grandfather of special forces, at your disposal. I feel for the victim and his family. Next time it will very likely be an actual threat that receives a magazine unloaded into their brain. I hope there never is a next time, however.

The implications of British Military personnel being involved on a street level with tracking and neutralising suspects are both positive and negative.

Special forces regiment created

New regiment will support SAS



[edit on 4-8-2005 by cargo]




posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 01:10 AM
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I believe they were definitely police as they come under the jurisdiction of the Met's chief.

An inquiry by the Police Complains Commission is in process.



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 01:26 AM
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Headshots, double-tapping and G36's on display - obvious who it is and it ain't the rozzers!!



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 02:20 AM
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Cargo, my friend - the Special Air Service simply do not work like that!

That you attribute this 'military' style operation to the SAS, says much for the 'myth' surrounding this elite special force. Rumours, and rumours of rumours, about how the SAS train and the 'duties' they undertake, have done much to enhance the reputation of this fine Regiment. (Many of the SAS people I know readily admit that it is this myth that often enables them to carry out anti-terrorist actions. The 'Balkan Street Siege' springs readily to mind.)

It is the case, that the Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police will ask the Home Office for Military intervention in a 'given' situation. The Home Office Minister will inform the Home Secretary who in turn, will inform the Prime Minister. The Prime Minister will then convene a full 'COBRA' meeting where all interested parties will attend - usually in Downing Street.

Depending on the threat - either to the public or a specific target, if it is thought that a 'peaceful' solution is not an option, then the Prime Minister will, on advice from all concerned, authorise military involvement.

However, the Home Secretary will still be in overall command of any operation mounted against terrorists or hardened criminals and he alone, will hand the operation over to the military.

There is a specific chain of events which will lead him to hand over control to the Director of Special Forces. From that moment on, the contingency plan swings into operation BUT the Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police still retains such authority that he [or she] can veto military action at any stage, because he will be in attendance, at the scene.

At Princess Gate, the SAS only stormed the embassy when Mr Lavasani was shot dead by Oan and other hostages would be killed by the terrorists if their demands had not been met.

However, having said all that, operating against suicide bombers is an entirely differant matter. I personally believe that much of the training manual is still 'being written' so to speak because of the complexities.

That the SAS will have an input, there is no doubt. After all, SO 19 routinely train at Pontrilas, Usk, the Malvern ranges and of course at Caerwent.

But to blithely say this 'was an SAS operation' is a little wide of the mark.

[edit on 4-8-2005 by fritz]



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 02:33 AM
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Originally posted by CTID56092
Headshots, double-tapping and G36's on display - obvious who it is and it ain't the rozzers!!


Glocks, MP5s, M4s, Shotguns, flakjackets on display - obvious who it is, bum bum BUMMMM! It's the star force on exercise at Adelaide airport and my mate was delivering pizza to them.

All HRT type coppers are armed with military weapons. 38s and 357s just won't cut it in that job. Looked inside an SO19 Range Rover lately?



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 02:36 AM
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Originally posted by cargo

Since the story broke I severely doubted the police would have any direct involvment in the shooting. I still think the SAS were the shooters. To have to make such decisions under such circumstances would be an enormous burden to bear.



And cops do it all the time. FAR MORE OFTEN than many soldiers do. Since you're quoting from an Australian paper, perhaps you remember how many people Australian cops have shot and killed in the last decade.



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 02:48 AM
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Originally posted by fritz
Cargo, my friend - the Special Air Service simply do not work like that!


Have to agree there. Didn't this guy get held down while one of the 'officers' dropped 5 shots to the back of the skull??

5 to the head...would doubt its SAS. 1, maybe 2, to the head and thats it.



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 03:21 AM
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Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
Since you're quoting from an Australian paper, perhaps you remember how many people Australian cops have shot and killed in the last decade.


This happened in the UK, not Australia. And Australian Police are all armed.


Originally posted by alien
5 to the head...would doubt its SAS. 1, maybe 2, to the head and thats it.


I don't see how the number of bullets fired into his head can distinguish whether it was done by police or SAS. It's like you are saying that the cop would be a less professional killer, pulling the trigger until it clicks, then still pulling the trigger, blood spray on his face, crazed look in his eye.

This was an execution. Regardless of the scenario and circumstances. The extra 6 bullets were insurance. Not saying it is therefore wrong, just calling a spade a spade.



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 03:49 AM
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Originally posted by cargo
This happened in the UK, not Australia. And Australian Police are all armed.


The Age is printed in Melbourne and your link was to www.theage.com.au.

And in Australia 95% of police shootings are carried out by SOGgies (and in Adelaide the Star Force). The equivalent of SO19.

There was a rash of shootings in Melbourne when ordinary police carried out fatal shootings while attending domestic disputes and mental patient incidents. They had been trained to fire until their chambers were empty.< ref point below> After the spate of fatal shootings the police were re-trained, with a particular focus on attending domestic disputes.




Originally posted by alien
5 to the head...would doubt its SAS. 1, maybe 2, to the head and thats it.


I don't see how the number of bullets fired into his head can distinguish whether it was done by police or SAS. It's like you are saying that the cop would be a less professional killer, pulling the trigger until it clicks, then still pulling the trigger, blood spray on his face, crazed look in his eye.


Just look at the "death on the rock" incident if you want to know how many times the SAS shoot.



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 04:39 AM
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Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
The Age is printed in Melbourne and your link was to www.theage.com.au.

And in Australia 95% of police shootings are carried out by SOGgies (and in Adelaide the Star Force). The equivalent of SO19.

There was a rash of shootings in Melbourne when ordinary police carried out fatal shootings while attending domestic disputes and mental patient incidents. They had been trained to fire until their chambers were empty.< ref point below> After the spate of fatal shootings the police were re-trained, with a particular focus on attending domestic disputes.


I am in Melbourne. I'm not sure about your percentages there. I believe that Victoria police are trained to fire in 2's - centre body mass. Or until the threat is down. Emptying your firearms capacity into a threat is not advisable. Particularly when the Vic Police standard issue is a Smith and Wesson model 10, .38 special with a 6 shot capacity. What was the ref point you were talking about?



Just look at the "death on the rock" incident if you want to know how many times the SAS shoot.


This is my point, I have read about Operation Flavius numerous times. Farrell was shot twice. McCann was shot once in the back, then had 5 more rounds put into him. Then 2 troopers fired on Savage hitting him about 18 times. 5 rounds to the head is nothing new for the SAS.

This is not a groupie thread. ATS is full of those already. Nor is it about the Victoria Police. This is a conspiracy site and for now I believe the SAS were involved. I'd be happy to find out otherwise though.

[edit on 4-8-2005 by cargo]



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 04:49 AM
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*yawns*

It was special branch armed officers who are trained by the SAS. Scotland Yard even confirmed this.

the only time the SAS has been involved is today because they are on stand-by in London incase of an attack.



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