Things Are Definately Changing....I'll Tell You What I've Noticed

Ok, how have things changed the way I see it(Im 27 now)

Back in the late 80's when I was 9, 10, 11, etc I was rivetted and fascinated by politics. Iran Contra, the Fall of communism, etc. I remember on September 11th 1991 when Bush made that new world order speach not even knowing what he was talking about. But I from a young age had an interest in politics, JFK conspiracy, etc.

As for awareness of things. I mean yeah, it's sad seeing how people are controlled by the corporate controlled media; everything from what is beuatiful or what celebrity is sleeping with whom just to distract people from whats really going on. Malnutrition is a national celebrational, as parents love lining their kids up at Macdonalds to get their fill of toxic waste.

I remember haven grown up in the 1980's, being scared straight from all the anti drug propaganda. To this day it scared me from ever even smoking a ciggarette...meanwhile never knowing the CIA wa shelping to funnel coc aine into American inner cities. What's changed is people are more cynical which could be good, but as Noam Chomski says 80% or mroe of th epublic truly are sheep.

Now me, I dislike smoking because I see big tobacco as a major puzzle piece of the corporate new world order, enslaving disenfranchised poor people around the country. I view big tobacco like I do Nike, Bayer(IG Farben), IBM,
Coca Cola, Halliburton, Unocal, GE, Monsantos, etc. IE: corporations doing very bad things; or that have done bad things. But I also believe in free hcoice, and find it outrageous smoking is banned from bars and nite clubs in a lot of places.

And as for getting pulled over arbitrarily, I guess there's a lot of bored cops.

Originally posted by CyberKat


I know exactly what you mean. I mean, I am a city person, I do prefer the city to the country. However, at the present time, I am living in OKC (Oklahoma City).

I do not like it here. I'm only here because I ended up here and met my boyfriend, who grew here (not a typo), those who grow in Oklahoma, tend to either not know how to leave, or leave and inevitably come back. Why? I have no idea. But anyway, I'm pretty sure that it's like you said in most cities now a days. Here, there is literally a "high speed" chase, with a cop chasing a citizen every day which inevitably ends in a fatality or serious injury. Also, they seem to make sure that it always happens right around 3:00pm, as children are being let out of school. And when that isn't going on, there is regular road-rage going on constantly, at any place in the city, at any time of day or night. And as far as I can tell, it seems to usually be over the horrendous crime of someone either cutting someone else off in traffic, or not letting someone merge in their lane. Often someone sticks their arm out of a window or the top of a convertable with a gun in their hand and takes a shot at the offending driver. I'm serious!

People are rude in the grocery store. They don't care if they have a heaping cartful, and someone comes up behind them with one or two items, they just let them wait, while they take their time. And, just try to say a friendly "hello" to someone passing by while walking on the sidewalk. You would be extremely lucky to have a "hello" back. The norm is a sneer, or they won't move over an inch to let you by, etc.....

Yes, people are very self-centered these days..

Sad thing.

1. When I go to the grocery store it's like the United Nations, as in I see people from literally every country and continent, and I like that. Of course everyone I see is middleclass or uppet middle class, but people are friendly in my area. So I have some hope for humanity.

2. I *almost* moved to another state to be with a girlfriend, but couldn't do it ultimately. Me and my wacky foresight, heh.

3. I have not been much out of California, so I can't comment on rural areas or the south.

4. I remember last time I was in southern california there was a live police chase that ended in the guy getting blown away right there live on prime time. I hear that oftens on Los Angeles tv every year.

5. For osme reason on the road I am the sheer opposite of road rage, heh.

Originally posted by 8bitagent
Ok, how have things changed the way I see it(Im 27 now)
........[truncated to keep peace with mods]

I remember haven grown up in the 1980's, being scared straight from all the anti drug propaganda. [more truncated]

I don't know how to say this right, because I do not advocate drugs. However, I also despise the way the government puts out all sorts of propaganda (either anti this or pro that), depending on their position as it usually relates back to money - money for them, of course. LIke I say, I don't personally have anything to do with drugs. I did many years ago, experimented you know, then when I had seen what it was all about, I decided that it was time to move on to other things. I don't regret having experimented, but you see, I made up my own mind to do so, and likewise I made up my own mind to move on. This was before all the government propaganda became so overwhelming. And because of my early experiences, I know first hand that they are mostly flat out lying about the horrors that drugs will do to people, or at least grossly exaggerating.

This is not the best topic to try to make my point on, because like I say, I would never, ever do or say anything to encourage another to try any sort of drug. Of course, I do believe in "live and let live", so I wouln't go lecturing them either. And, well they aren't really all that good for you anyway. But I feel this way on anything that I can see that is being strongly propagandized by the government/mainstream media, which is not all together honest.

That's why it made me sad and mad (at them, not at you) when you said that you were scared straight because of all the anti-drug propaganda. I hope that I am making sense here. I certainly am not trying to tell you to go out and do drugs. I'm just saddened by the fact that the falsehoods, the lies and one-sided exaggerations that are fed to us through the TV and newspapers on a daily basis are actually working!

I'm not an expert on anything, so there could be a grain of truth in some of what they say, but I do at least believe that they are now, and have been for quite some time attempting to, and in many instances succeding in at the very least, using some sort of subliminal mind control on us while we watch TV.

Originally by 8BitAgent
Now me, I dislike smoking because I see big tobacco as a major puzzle piece of the corporate new world order, enslaving disenfranchised poor people around the country. I view big tobacco like I do Nike, Bayer(IG Farben), IBM,
Coca Cola, Halliburton, Unocal, GE, Monsantos, etc. IE: corporations doing very bad things; or that have done bad things. But I also believe in free hcoice, and find it outrageous smoking is banned from bars and nite clubs in a lot of places.

8Bit, you have just brought up a very interesting concept that I have never even thoght of! I mean, I have for a long time now not been too happy (to put it mildly) with big corporations, such as all the ones you mentioned and not to forget my greatest nemesis, "Wal-Mart!"

Which brings me to a personal crossroads. If you have been reading some or most of this thread, you will have noticed that I am a smoker, I enjoy smoking, and unfortunately the subject has sparked a few unpleasant exchanges between members- for that I feel really bad about, as it was not the true focus of my post.

However, who (besides possibly Halliburton and WalMart - maybe.... could ever be as big, wealthy, corrupt, corrupt, corrupt and full of bribes and who knows what else than "Big Tobacco!" Duh!!! I guess I just didn't notice because I like my cigarettes, and until reading this part of your post where you point out that they are no better than Halliburon and the rest when it comes to corruption.

..............Well I had to digest that for a minute, but in all honesty, I'm just not ready to give up my smokes. For one thing, I like them! and also, just as powerful as was your statement pointing out that they are no better than all the other majors, is the flip side of the coin. The government wants us to stop smoking. I don't much care for the government and what it wants. So, why should I go along with what they want. It could be one more way of "conditioning" us to take orders, so that as the NWO is brought on slowly, we aren't supposed to really notice or do or say anything against it!

Again, I, also like you, believe very much in the First Ammendment. Free Speech and all that. To smoke or not to smoke is definately one's right as far as free speech goes, IMO. I also though do understand that it bothers many other people, so I do believe in being courteous to them and keeping my smoke to myself.

It certainly seems as if we, as adults who have a difference of opinion as to whether we want to smoke, or to even be subjected to it, ought to be able to work that out on our own, without the government intervening like it was our parents and we are still 6 years old! And I'm sure that if left to our own devices regarding disagreements on various other matters, we would do just fine, if not better if we came to term with our differences all by our selves, rather that have government go stepping in on every little thing. Don't they have better things to do anyway??? If they don't, well then we probably don't need so many of them then, do we?

Sorry, didn't mean to get so carried away. BTW, if I didn't already mention it, I also am from Southern California - Santa Barbara. So, the difference from growing up there, to being suddenly displaced in the much over euphamized "heartland" is not a pleasant experience. No, these people are wierd! I'm sorry, I'm not prejudice, I don't really mean each and every one of them. But in general, you know. I met my boyfriend here, and am still here because of him. So, he can't be stereotyped, and I have met quite a few others who do not fit the the stereotype either. But you know, when you walk down the sidewalk and there are homes that literally have toilets and bathtubs in thier front yards, being used as flower pots...........seriously. Have you ever heard Jeff Foxworthy? I didn't realize it until I got here, but all his jokes are based on things that are "normal" to most who live here. Aaaaarrrrghhhhh!

And as for getting pulled over arbitrarily, I guess there's a lot of bored cops.

To say the least. IMO, they seem in general to have very poor self-esteem, and with many, it is very obvious that that uniform, gun, etc... that they hide behind gives them "power" that they for what ever reason never had before, and they tend to abuse it. I know that that seems to be true for some cops everywhere. But it's a bit excessive here!

Originally posted by CyberKat


I know exactly what you mean. I mean, I am a city person, I do prefer the city to the country. However, at the present time, I am living in OKC (Oklahoma City).

I do not like it here. I'm only here because I ended up here and met my boyfriend, who grew here (not a typo), those who grow in Oklahoma, tend to either not know how to leave, or leave and inevitably come back. Why? I have no idea. But anyway, I'm pretty sure that it's like you said in most cities now a days. Here, there is literally a "high speed" chase, with a cop chasing a citizen every day which inevitably ends in a fatality or serious injury. Also, they seem to make sure that it always happens right around 3:00pm, as children are being let out of school. And when that isn't going on, there is regular road-rage going on constantly, at any place in the city, at any time of day or night. And as far as I can tell, it seems to usually be over the horrendous crime of someone either cutting someone else off in traffic, or not letting someone merge in their lane. Often someone sticks their arm out of a window or the top of a convertable with a gun in their hand and takes a shot at the offending driver. I'm serious!

People are rude in the grocery store. They don't care if they have a heaping cartful, and someone comes up behind them with one or two items, they just let them wait, while they take their time. And, just try to say a friendly "hello" to someone passing by while walking on the sidewalk. You would be extremely lucky to have a "hello" back. The norm is a sneer, or they won't move over an inch to let you by, etc.....

Yes, people are very self-centered these days..

Sad thing.

1. When I go to the grocery store it's like the United Nations, as in I see people from literally every country and continent, and I like that. Of course everyone I see is middleclass or uppet middle class, but people are friendly in my area. So I have some hope for humanity.

2. I *almost* moved to another state to be with a girlfriend, but couldn't do it ultimately. Me and my wacky foresight, heh.

3. I have not been much out of California, so I can't comment on rural areas or the south.

4. I remember last time I was in southern california there was a live police chase that ended in the guy getting blown away right there live on prime time. I hear that oftens on Los Angeles tv every year.

5. For osme reason on the road I am the sheer opposite of road rage, heh.
:

Originally posted by QuietSoul

Originally posted by justme1640

Originally posted by QuietSoul
The worst of all, is the very people that enjoyed all these luxuries you speak of are the very same people that are taking them all away.

Ironic isnt it?

QS were you referring to my post above you? I guess living on an island and growing up with a lot of commercial fishermen in my family - and while my dad worked for the highway department we often lived off of what we got from fishing, clamming, scalloping, crabbing etc - I don't consider any of those things luxuries. And beach parties were a Sunday event -- we would go out fishing or clamming in the boat and at a certain time meet with other friends at a beach - who had done the same - and eat what we all had gotten -

jm

No, I was referring to the entire post, luxuries taken away by the very people that enjoyed them..

DO you really think smoking is a luxury?

@CyberKat:

Well, I think I come from more an observence than an activist like Noam Chomski.

For me my faith and being is dictated by common sense, as best as possible
Now while I realize that Walmart and many many companies ge most their crap from the hands fo small children or slave waged adults working in bad conditions for pennies in Burma, Thailand, Malasia, Equador...I continue like most people to make a conscious decision to shop at these places.

The reason is because of conveinence and low income. I am by most American standards poor, so it's kind of a codependant relationship. We need Walmart, but we also realize how it exists. Kind of like meat. Most of us like meat(well, Im a vegetarian, but that can come and go) but do not want to know where it comes from.

Now I used to love Mcdonalds, even tho I felt like crap and I gained weight. I have not been so eager for Mcdonalds since I saw Super Size Me. But if Im on a road trip and nothing is around, of course I will eat there. I guess my point is for people to make informed decisions.

I respect a smoker who knows who is making their product(ie: big tobacco) than someone who is completely ignorant to whats going on. We are consumers, we consume; and thus we should know where our products come from.

As much as I think the government is engaged in Orwellian 1984 like propaganda, I liked the anti drug feeling of growing up in the mid to late 1980's. The heroin, meth and crack culture is extremely dangerous and causes nothing but destruction to all who surrounds it.

But then one has to also realize the hypocracy. Did you know they will not let the DEA be a part of the so claled war on terror in the middle east? Opium, or 80% of the worlds heroin comes from Afghanistan, which has exploded exponentially since the invasion. Since Vietnam the CIA has trafficked in drugs , most notably in the 1980's.

When it comes to class and culture, some things are constants and obvious. I genuinely love all people, but I also realize there is many impoverished areas I would not want to visit or live in.

Yes, this is the United States of America...but if youre in a crime ridden black area, a seriously depressed Michigan worker city, in a backwoods Southern city, etc it can feel like youre in a whole other country.

And here is the big hypcracy with me...some day that they hate the yuppified soccer mom star bucks everywhere suburbia world. And yes, it sometiems feels like its an idea and artless vacuum ran by corporations. But I feel safer and more comfortable, and heck I thrive for this than the rural/bumpkin like towns or the poor inner city ghettos because I have lived in both those situations. People need to feel at ease, and its hard to when one's enviroment is burnt out cars or run down houses everywhere.

Originally posted by DarkSide

Originally posted by QuietSoul

Originally posted by justme1640

Originally posted by QuietSoul
The worst of all, is the very people that enjoyed all these luxuries you speak of are the very same people that are taking them all away.

Ironic isnt it?

QS were you referring to my post above you? I guess living on an island and growing up with a lot of commercial fishermen in my family - and while my dad worked for the highway department we often lived off of what we got from fishing, clamming, scalloping, crabbing etc - I don't consider any of those things luxuries. And beach parties were a Sunday event -- we would go out fishing or clamming in the boat and at a certain time meet with other friends at a beach - who had done the same - and eat what we all had gotten -

jm

No, I was referring to the entire post, luxuries taken away by the very people that enjoyed them..

DO you really think smoking is a luxury?

Darkside, at first I thought that your one-liner could be answered back as such. But on second thought, it is a far more complex question than that. You want an honest answer? I will give you one, sure...no problem. But first, I want to make sure that we are on the same page.

For one thing, a "luxury" can be defined by many people to mean many different things. See "Luxury" - Defined on the Web.

You see, just by the huge differences in the meaning of the word by a few, it can not be so simply defined. Now, my personal definition of a luxury would be something much closer to Miriam-Webster's definition, which is: "Something adding to pleasure or comfort, but not absolutely necessary."

So, going by that definition, I would have to honestly say that for me, personally, "No, I do not really think that smoking is a luxury." Because it is a source of pleasure to me, and one that I can count on, unlike counting on another person, or even a pet for that matter, and because I feel that a life without some pleasure is no life, I therefore feel that it is indeed a necessity. For me personally and the set of circumstances that I live with on a daily basis. Yes, it is a necessity. (I assume you were directing your question at me). I can speak for no one esle, as each person's outlook on life, their own circumstances, values, feelings, etc..... are very different.

I must add one thing, however: I am very much aware that there are quite a few people, in this country at least, who place a great deal of importance on the way they think that second-hand smoke may affect their own health and/or the health of the ones close to them, who do not wish to have the smell of tobacco smoke in their homes, or to breath it while eating out, etc... So, I do my best to take as much care as possible to make sure that I am not imposing my own cigarette smoke upon others. If I go to a home or other place, public or private where either I already know, or it is obvious that there are non-smokers there, I won't even ask. I will be sure to go outside and away from them before I smoke.

When/if there are non-smokers in my own home, I usually do the same, although I often resent myself for not at least asserting myself in my own home. But, that's the way I usually am. I try to avoid trouble, arguements, ill feelings, etc... as much as I possibly can. But, I'm not perfect. I can annoy others sometimes, and be annoyed by them as well, I'm just as human as you are.

P.S. Having access to the Internet is one luxury that I am fortunate enough to have. Although it is not entirely a luxury, as with the ridiculous rising taxes on cigarettes now a days, I need it to order cigarettes that are not nearly so expensive.

Nice post Cyberkat I think that the day is coming pretty soon that we are not going to have to worry about such things. There does appear to be some pretty serious "conditioning" going on in the recent years especially since post 9/11. The many rights we enjoy now as a nation are being slowly eroding and we are just playing into the hands of the ones who are doing it to us. We need to raise hell with as many people as we can to help make the Govt. aware of the fact that we are not going to be led around by the nose like we have since the mid '70's. We need to get something going in order to let the govt. know that there is a REAL line in the sand and it will not be breeched by them. One person is not going to cut it. It must be done with large crowds of people demanding from our govt. that we are prepared to keep our rights no matter what. I abstain from violence but when you push the wrong public's buttons, it should be met with all resources we have. Peacefully always. If it comes down to them or me, I'm going to choose what I deem the best for myself.

Originally posted by FLYIN HIGH
Nice post Cyberkat

I think that the day is coming pretty soon that we are not going to have to worry about such things.

I agree, great post. Now if I could just figure out what happened to the REAL versions of Bugs Bunny, Wiley Coyote, and Daffy Duck cartoons. I miss them!!!!

Originally posted by FLYIN HIGH
Nice post Cyberkat

I think that the day is coming pretty soon that we are not going to have to worry about such things.

I agree, great post. Now if I could just figure out what happened to the REAL versions of Bugs Bunny, Wiley Coyote, and Daffy Duck cartoons. Gawd, I miss them!!!!

[edit on 25-9-2005 by Cynic]

Originally posted by FLYIN HIGH
Nice post Cyberkat

I think that the day is coming pretty soon that we are not going to have to worry about such things. There does appear to be some pretty serious "conditioning" going on in the recent years especially since post 9/11................. We need to raise hell with as many people as we can to help make the Govt. aware of the fact that we are not going to be led around by the nose like we have since the mid '70's. We need to get something going in order to let the govt. know that there is a REAL line in the sand and it will not be breeched by them. One person is not going to cut it. It must be done with large crowds of people demanding from our govt. that we are prepared to keep our rights no matter what...................... Peacefully always. If it comes down to them or me, I'm going to choose what I deem the best for myself.

Thank you. And yes, I agree with you absolutely. Especially on the fact that we definately need large numbers of people who are willing to all come together for the same cause. Our rights and freedoms that are inherently ours. I realize, and have read where many different people have written it on the Web that, "There are more of us than there are of them".

I know this to be true, but somehow, we still all seem to be so scattered, rather than becoming organized. If I knew any way in the world (non-violent most preferably) to accomplish this, I would have done so long ago.

How do we do this? If there is a will, there is a way, or so they say.

Originally posted by CyberKat
Our rights and freedoms that are inherently ours. I realize, and have read where many different people have written it on the Web that, "There are more of us than there are of them".

I know this to be true, but somehow, we still all seem to be so scattered, rather than becoming organized. If I knew any way in the world (non-violent most preferably) to accomplish this, I would have done so long ago.

How do we do this? If there is a will, there is a way, or so they say.

I know in my own right I've opened dialogues with people I know about what's going on. It makes me sad that people only know what they were taught in school or see on the news, and don't use common sense or research things for themselves.

It saddens me how even the most liberal free thinking people seem to be confoudned into a left-right thinking way. Why do people shackle themselves into saying they are this or that party, this or that affiliation? I think when we all come together as people and look at what's going on with reason and awareness we can put those silly labels aside.

As I always say, people should not be so distracted by the reality tv/MTV/celebrity worship and other corporate controlled strangleholds on people's minds.

But I think people are waking up. I think more people are aware of what corporations are doing. I think people are waking up to the chess game the Bush administration is so far successfully pulling off. People are waking up to the 9/11 coverup and how it's been used as a magic genie lamp for the globalists, and how our young soldiers are dying and killing for no real reason. It's just sad all these injustices here and abroad do not really matter to people, an dI fear someday when people will have no choice but to be faced with it it'll be too late. There was brave people who stood up to Mccarthyism in the 50's, and I think people are starting to speak out against
the hoodwinking that's going on today.

People just need to be educated about what's going on, and be shown how it relates to us all.