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Originally posted by Pyros
The Geneva conention was written and signed by multiple nations for one purpose and one purpose only: to ensure that POWs were to be treated humanely and not to be used as bargaining chips or weapons of psychological warfare.
When your enemy treats your countrymen (both military and innocent civilians) no better than cattle in a slaughtershouse, and then films their denegrations for broadcasts back to us so that we can "hear their message", then they, by their own actions, have thrown away any last shred of a claim to having Geneva Convention protections.
When our enemy captures our uniformed troops, and then proceeds to abuse them and submit them to summary executions, while being filmed for the sole purpose of propaganda and demoralization of our troops, then I say we give no quarter, show no military courtesies, and treat them like the murdering bandits and thugs that they are.
The Geneva Conventions were also based upon respect, like it or not. British military officers may have despised their Nazi counterparts during WWII, and vice versa. American soldiers hated and never understood the Japanese Imperial Soldier. But underlying that dislike their was still a level of respect, based upon a level of open and established military customs, traditions, and courtesies. Even when atrocities were committed on sides, the other side usually did not retaliate, because there was always a feeling that these atrocities were not either sanctioned by the high command, or were the actions of rogue commanders. Unfortunately, our enemies in the Middle East proclaim with glee that our deaths, including the deaths of our captured servicemen, are their objectives.
It is completely illogical to show these people any mercy. They will never reciprocate, they believe that they are acting in God's best interests, and they mock us for showing them just this kind of weakness.
In some ways, their dedication and steadfastness to their cause, however evil and misguided, is admirable. They do not fear us and are happy to go to their deaths fighting us, even if they have everything to lose. Which is all the more reason we must exterminate them. They are mindless and cannot be reasons with, negotiated with, or bargained with. We must treat them as an infestation of deadly pests. We have blundered into a hornets nest - and the last thing we need to do is start worrying about wether or not we should slap away the wasps that are swarming around our head and stinging us.........
# (Art 13): "Prisoners of war must at all times be humanely treated."
# (Art 13): "...Prisoners of war must at all times be protected, particularly against acts of violence or intimidation and against insults and public curiosity."
# (Art 17): "No physical or mental torture, nor any other form of coercion, may be inflicted on prisoners of war to secure from them information of any kind whatever. Prisoners of war who refuse to answer may not be threatened, insulted or exposed to unpleasant or disadvantageous treatment of any kind."
# (Art 25): "Prisoners of war shall be quartered under conditions as favourable as those for the forces of the Detaining Power who are billeted in the same area."
# (Art 27): "Clothing, underwear and footwear shall be supplied to prisoners of war"
# (Art 33): "Members of the medical personnel and chaplains while retained by the Detaining Power with a view to assisting prisoners of war, shall not be considered as prisoners of war. They shall, however, receive as a minimum the benefits and protection of the present Convention, and shall also be granted all facilities necessary to provide for the medical care of, and religious ministration to prisoners of war."
# (Art 39): "Prisoners of war, with the exception of officers, must salute and show to all officers of the Detaining Power the external marks of respect provided for by the regulations applying in their own forces."
# (Art 42): "The use of weapons against prisoners of war, especially against those who are escaping or attempting to escape, shall constitute an extreme measure, which shall always be preceded by warnings appropriate to the circumstances."
(Art 88): "Officers, non-commissioned officers and men who are prisoners of war undergoing a disciplinary or judicial punishment, shall not be subjected to more severe treatment than that applied in respect of the same punishment to members of the armed forces of the Detaining Power of equivalent rank."
Barbed wire, forced to walk barefoot on
"Burking" – hand over detainee’s mouth/nose to prevent breathing
Cell extraction, brutal/punitive use of
Chemical/pepper spray, misuse of
Claustrophia-inducing techniques, e.g. tied headfirst in sleeping bag, shut in lockers
Dogs used to threaten and intimidate
Dousing in cold water
Electric shocks, threats of electric shocks
Exposure to weather and temperature extremes, especially via air-conditioning
Flags, wrapped in Israeli or US flags during or prior to interrogation
Food and water deprivation
Forced shaving, ie of head, body or facial hair
Forcible injections, including with unidentified substances
Ground, forced to lie on bare ground while agents stand on back or back of legs
Hostage-taking, i.e. individuals detained to force surrender of relatives
Humiliation, eg forced crawling, forced to make animal noises, being urinated upon.
Immersion in water to induce perception of drowning
Induced perception of suffocation or asyphxiation
Loud music, noise, yelling
Photography and videoing as humiliation
Physical assault, eg punching, kicking, beatings with hands, hose, batons, guns, etc
Physical exercise to the point of exhaustion, e.g. "ups and downs", carrying rocks
Piling, i.e. detainee is sat on or jumped on by one or more people ("dog/pig pile")
Prolonged interrogations, eg 20 hours
Racial and religious taunts, humiliation
Relatives, denial of access to, excessive censorship of communications with
Religious intolerance, eg disrespect for Koran, religious rituals
Shackles and handcuffs, excessive and cruel use of. Includes "short shackling"
Solitary confinement for prolonged periods, eg months or more than a year
Stress positions, eg prolonged forced kneeling and standing
Stripping, nudity, excessive or humiliating use of
Strip searches, excessive or humiliating use of
Suspension, with use of handcuffs/shackles
Threat of rape
Threats of reprisals against relatives
Threat of transfer to third country to inspire fear of torture or death
Threat of transfer to Guantánamo
Threats of torture or ill-treatment
Twenty-four hour bright lighting
Withdrawal of "comfort items", including religious items
Withholding of information, e.g. not telling detainee where he is
Withholding of medication
Withholding of toilet facilities, leading to defecation and urination in clothing
According to Donald Rumsfeld, many more pictures and videotapes of the abuse at Abu Ghraib exist.
New photos and videos revealed by the Pentagon to lawmakers in a private viewing on the 12th of May showed attack dogs snarling at cowing prisoners, Iraqi women forced to expose their breasts, and naked prisoners forced to have sex with each other, the lawmakers revealed.
Seymour Hersh, an investigative journalist with The New Yorker, said there are tapes of American soldiers sodomizing Iraqi boys, and that these tapes are being held by the Bush administration.
Senator Lindsey Graham (Republican, South Carolina) has been quoted as saying, "The American public needs to understand we're talking about rape and murder here," after hearing testimony from Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.
"The torture? A more serious blow to the United States than September 11 (attacks). Except that the blow was not inflicted by terrorists but by Americans against themselves." — Archbishop Giovanni Lajolo, foreign minister of The Vatican
Wake up! it's the government that carries out the terror attacks! We just found out that the mastermind of the London attacks was an MI-6 asset.
Originally posted by C0le
Soul, Sad as it is to say, i often wish people like you would face these savages, All that BS cry baby crap you just typed would go right out the door when you had a rusty knife to your throat.
How can anyone take your argument seriously? With over 6 billion people in the world you form your opinions based only upon the expeirences of those you have come into contact with? This is a total cop out argument.
Originally posted by skippytjc
Whatever makes them talk is ok with me. I have said this before, and I have a feeling I will need to say it again:
I personally know more Americans that have been killed or affected by an Extreme Islamic than I know extreme Islamics that have been beaten or treated badly by Americans.
Until that balance changes, my government has my 100% support to treat terror suspects however they see fit.