It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Are you Muslim? Dont like Britain? Then get out !

page: 4
0
<< 1  2  3    5 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 03:02 PM
link   

Originally posted by paperclip

That is not going to happen, and white man should get used to the sight of colored people on the street.



See, my point is, Paperclip, why should white people have to get used to seeing anyone other than themselves on a street in Europe? My point being Europe is white. Any one who is not white, living in Europe, is a foreigner, or of foreign ancestry. I again have to make a disclaimer: I am not trying to be a rascist. I am only pointing out the fact that those of various colors who live in Europe are guests, or at one time, their families were guests. If they do not like where they live, they should leave.

Old family adage: I am of Croatian descent. If I move to Japan, after a certain amount of years, I can apply for Japanese citizenship. Then I will be Japanese. But only in name. I am Croatian,it's in my blood, no matter what country I live in.




posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 03:10 PM
link   

Originally posted by nathraq
I believe most people aren't afraid of Muslims being terrorists persay, but more afraid of losing a sense of national identification.

No matter what arguement anyone can give, Great Britain is a Western, predominantly white, nation. The majority are Christian. It is their house. What we in the Western world are seeing is an influx of people's from every corner of the globe coming in to have a piece of our very generous pie. No problems with that.

What I do have a problem with, is people coming to exploit what we have worked so hard to build. Intstead of embracing the culture that they have voluntarily decided to enter, they choose exclusion. That is the problem with certain immigrants, Muslims being one of them. The money of Europe and America and Australia are good enough for them. But that's where the line is drawn.

I may come off as being rascist. But that is not what I am trying to paint here. I am not saying Westerners are better than anyone else. But these are our cultures that are being watered down by pluralism and the great myth of the 'melting pot'.

It is ok in today's PC world to be "Black and proud", or the poor Muslim who is always labeled as a terrorist. But as soon as a person of European descent says, " I am proud to be German", or " God save the Queen", or " Viva la France", they are labeled as a rascist or nationalist. That is the double edged sword of being white in today's world. We are now the Earth's bogeymen. The cause of all problems, from the Crusades, to American Slavery, to Viet Nam, and now Iraq. It is because of "whitey's" transgressions that the world is in total chaos and confusion.

Well, thank god I am not PC. I will voice exactly how I feel, and I hope others do the same. I would rather have someone up in my face, telling my what's on their minds, than trying to 'protect my feelings' from what they might say.

So, after all is said and done:

Yes, anyone who does not want to share in the wealth and peacefulness of Western style living should leave. If they do not want to assimilate and join the rest of us for BBQ's and fireworks, then leave.
(that also goes for you anti-American and 'blame the white-man for all the world's problems' factions.) Maybe there is a small(deserted) Island in the Pacific for the lot of ya.


dude you got my wats ....that post is what needs to be said..it is an edge that needs to be addressed



posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 03:27 PM
link   

Originally posted by nathraq


See, my point is, Paperclip, why should white people have to get used to seeing anyone other than themselves on a street in Europe?


Because thats how it is today.
Being other race/color/religion should NOT be a criteria upon which good or bad, positive or negative influence, progress or setback, is judged.
It is what we do, our DEEDS, that should be relevant.
Having other races and religions in Europe is not a negative thing, it is not a problem, at least it should't be.

The problem is crime/terrorism, and THAT should be dealt with regardless of race or religion.


Old family adage: I am of Croatian descent. If I move to Japan, after a certain amount of years, I can apply for Japanese citizenship. Then I will be Japanese. But only in name. I am Croatian,it's in my blood, no matter what country I live in.


So, if you have a job there and your kids go to school, would you see yourself as positive productive addition to japanese culture?
Or as negative one just because you are not japanese or because some othe croatian you have never met in your life killed a japanese person?





On a side note, this whole additude of "get the hell out" totaly doesn't make sense.

I mean, if these people wanted to get out, they would.
That is, if the problem was, as the article is trying to convince us, the british way of life. Since that is obviously not the reason why these people turn to terror, the whole idea of this conservative dude quoted in the article doesn't make sense. It has no foundation in reality.
Such talk acomplishes NOTHING but provocations, anger, resentment, segregation, and a dangerous tribalisation of society.
It is quite primitively worded speech he gave and it offers no factual solution to the problem. It is typical for marginal right wing politicians to talk like that so they get more attention.

I think this thread is an obvious example that such attitudes rarely produce anything constructive.



posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 03:30 PM
link   
I don't think it's wise for any sovereign nation to allow any group of immigrants who have no intention of assimilating into their home culture in.

It's a recipe for disaster.



posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 04:17 PM
link   

Originally posted by nathraq
See, my point is, Paperclip, why should white people have to get used to seeing anyone other than themselves on a street in Europe? My point being Europe is white. Any one who is not white, living in Europe, is a foreigner, or of foreign ancestry.


Damn, I'm glad the North American natives hadn't taken that attitude, I wouldn't be here. Not like we gave them much of a choice though.



posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 04:38 PM
link   

Originally posted by intrepid

Damn, I'm glad the North American natives hadn't taken that attitude, I wouldn't be here. Not like we gave them much of a choice though.


Intrepid, you're taking me out of context.


I stated in an earlier post that Europeans came to the new world, and basically conquered it. I should have added: to the point where no feasible retribution by the former inhabitants was to be feared.

All of my posts and rambling was about culture. Any culture has the right to defend itself from extinction. Doesn't mean they will win, as we see by your example of the Natives of America. But, Europe is established. Their culture is being wittled away bit by bit, to meet the demands of an ever growing populace of immigrants from the Middle East, Africa or Asia. It is more of an infiltration, stealth erasure and eroding, of the European cultures, which different as they may be, are still similar enough where a person from Poland relates to some spefics of German culture, etc, etc.



posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 04:54 PM
link   

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
as painful as it is, I have to weigh in on the muslim side on this one. The bombings had nothing to do with the british way of life, but british foreign policy.



So they kill some poor jerks going to work? I would by your story if they bombed a government building or something like that.

Using this logic a proper protest against a government policy I didnt agree with would be to shoot my neighbors kids.

What is the difference?



posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 05:22 PM
link   

Originally posted by nathraq
But, Europe is established. Their culture is being wittled away bit by bit, to meet the demands of an ever growing populace of immigrants from the Middle East, Africa or Asia.


I must ask here, what exactly is being whittled away?

I live in Vienna, a city with about 2 million people, 1 million of which are foreigners.

Austrians still speak german, their laws haven't changed in negative way, all schools teach complete austrian history, every single last bit of it, all museums, theaters, cinemas, operas are still there, nothing has been changed, all national restaurants, bars, TV stations, newspapers are still here and there aren't any restrictions on any of them. People still go to church, Christmas is still a national holiday and no one is even considering changing that. All the elements that make a culture of one nation are still there.

The only thing that has changed is that now when you are in a bus/tram/subway/walking on the street, you LOOK at people of different race
next to you. That is not negative.
Those people have brought with them a part of their culture, mainly restaurants, small shops, market places and music. ALL that is positive, good addition to already existent things.

What is eroding the society is CRIME and for that we have laws and law enforcement agencies to deal with it.

You simply cannot create a perfect society in which ALL members are pure good and never ever commit any evil and you cannot expect from others to be perfect. Our civilisation is not like that.
Free society is not a society free of crime. What makes a modern free society what it is, are laws that punish those who do not play by the rules, laws that are rooted in certain basic human rights, and law enforcement agencies who implement those laws to the best of their abilities.

When immigrants come to a country with laws like that, adapting to the "culture" of that country means respecting those laws. Many immigrants have indeed adapted and are living just fine.
The aditional cultural elements they bring with them that are not in conflict with the law are a welcomed addition to the growth of human conciousness and understanding of the world.



posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 05:31 PM
link   

Originally posted by KhieuSamphan

Originally posted by skippytjc
the biggest threat in England right now: Islamic (read Muslim) Terrorists.

I would contest this.
I have more chance of being run over by a bus than I have of being murdered by a terrorist.



there's a good chance you'd see and hear the bus before it hit you, I doubt if you'd notice a bomb in a packed tube train



posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 05:37 PM
link   

Originally posted by nathraq
I am only pointing out the fact that those of various colors who live in Europe are guests, or at one time, their families were guests.


We are all guests on this planet and you talk like a racist in spite of your claims to the contrary.

If you don't like being a guest on God's planet then leave now.



[edit on 3-8-2005 by Roy Robinson Stewart]



posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 06:22 PM
link   
Yes racism no doubt does play a factor in many topics on this subject but at the same time we shouldn't let the fear of being called a racist let us stop talking about issues such as immigration. Regardless of how strange peoples opinions may sound it's good to get them out in the open so you can try to understand their point of view and maybe sway them to yours if you feel theirs is wrong. It's also important to remember that all races can be racist, one problem that has been in the news recently here is parents of immigrants not wanting their children to marry people here that are of a different race and forcing them to marry someone they haven't even met from their home country. This type of thing certainly happens on both sides of course, so don't think I'm only saying it's one way.

I personally think all wealthy nations besides Japan have gone a bit overboard with the number of immigrants they allow into their countries. Letting a few in is great but if you let many in quickly than often they set up communites inside of the main community instead of properly intergrating into the main community. Intergration is the key and it will help prevent parts of the community feeling as though they aren't part of the country or in the worst case enemies of it. I was thinking that the reason why Japan is the exception with 99% of the population being Japanese is perhaps because they are not subject to white mans guilt (guilt over all of the terrible things done in the past by white people to other peoples) and can impliment a stricter immigration policy because they are less likely to be called racist by the media. Maybe in their case they could stand to let a few more in but having an immigrantion rate that is 1/5 of the naturalised births per 1000 is in my opinion perhaps too much and could lead to trouble down the track, whether you were wanting to keep your nation unique or if you just wanted to stop communities who identify themselves by race or religion rather than nationality forming.

Sources: www.cia.gov...

www.cia.gov...

[edit on 3-8-2005 by Trent]



posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 09:03 PM
link   
Yes, it would be nice if all those who would kill innocents by planting bombs would just get out of my country and leave us alone. But let's be realistic, where are they going to go? They've come from someplace that in their mind has been FUBAR'd by western policy (and there is some accuracy in this view).

By the same token, though, I'd like to see all those who would endanger me by supporting a dangerous and illogical foreign policy get out, too.

Before I get any flak by people saying, "but we neocon supporters don't plant bombs," I don't care. I am thinking only in terms of what is best for my safety and wellbeing. I'd like to see neocons out of my country, muslim (or christian) extremists, muggers, bad drivers, you name it. I want you all out.

The truth is that none of this is going to happen. It's pure fantasy. We staked claims to their lands, now they are staking a claim to ours. We have to find realistic ways to deal with it.

-koji K.



posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 09:52 PM
link   

Originally posted by KhieuSamphan
Although the article mentions 'extremist' Muslims, one cannot help but feel that such sentiments will be extended across the whole of the Muslim community so that any legitimate dissent will be stifled.


Yup.

As long as the western governments have this mentality, they will continue to loose to terrorism.

They need to understand the nature of the 'beast', and this shows no understanding of it what so ever. It is not our way of life they want to destroy, that isnt it at all!



posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 09:58 PM
link   

Originally posted by nathraq

Originally posted by paperclip

That is not going to happen, and white man should get used to the sight of colored people on the street.



See, my point is, Paperclip, why should white people have to get used to seeing anyone other than themselves on a street in Europe? My point being Europe is white. Any one who is not white, living in Europe, is a foreigner, or of foreign ancestry. I again have to make a disclaimer: I am not trying to be a rascist. I am only pointing out the fact that those of various colors who live in Europe are guests, or at one time, their families were guests. If they do not like where they live, they should leave.

Old family adage: I am of Croatian descent. If I move to Japan, after a certain amount of years, I can apply for Japanese citizenship. Then I will be Japanese. But only in name. I am Croatian,it's in my blood, no matter what country I live in.



And according to your own arguments, eiter those people are guests, or at some time their parents were guests. The latter may suggets that some of these people were actually born in europe, making them European, because that is where they were born.

Your arguments ARE racist. Why should you have to get used to looking at non-white person on the street? Because they are a person, just the same as you should have to look at a dog ugly white person that walks down the street -- because they are a person, you might not consider them an attractive one, but they have every much as right to be there as you do.

It dosen't matter what religion or sex or race or colour people are, THEY ARE STLL PEOPLE!

Jeez, its like living in the freakin' dark ages.



posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 10:03 PM
link   

Originally posted by KhieuSamphan

Originally posted by skippytjc
the biggest threat in England right now: Islamic (read Muslim) Terrorists.

I would contest this.
I have more chance of being run over by a bus than I have of being murdered by a terrorist.


Damn right, people forget this so easily, just goes to show how well some of that brain-washing television can go down.

I can name at least a half-dozen things that pose a bigger threat to England and the people that live in it, and it would not even begin to scratch the surface.

1. Pollution and Global Warming
2. Racial/Hate Crimes
3. Avian Bird Flu
4. HIV/Aids
5. Cancer(s)
6. 'Shoot to Kill' policy (give it time)

[edit on 3-8-2005 by ekul08]



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 06:09 AM
link   

Originally posted by ekul08

And according to your own arguments, eiter those people are guests, or at some time their parents were guests. The latter may suggets that some of these people were actually born in europe, making them European, because that is where they were born.

Your arguments ARE racist. Why should you have to get used to looking at non-white person on the street? Because they are a person, just the same as you should have to look at a dog ugly white person that walks down the street -- because they are a person, you might not consider them an attractive one, but they have every much as right to be there as you do.

It dosen't matter what religion or sex or race or colour people are, THEY ARE STLL PEOPLE!

Jeez, its like living in the freakin' dark ages.



Typical leftist reply. Once again, pointing the finger at 'whitey', for stating his opinion.

Is is not a right for foreigners to be in any country. It is a privilege. I did not say kick them out. I did not say they are evil and bad and commit 90% of the crimes. Those are words that are trying to be put in my mouth.

What I did say, is that if they do not like where they are living, and actually hate the people and culture they have chosen to live alongside, but won't become a part of, then I agree with Skippy: They should leave.

Because this topic happens to center around the West makes it really hard for a white person to discuss it. As we have seen, I have been labeled a rascist by non-whites, or apologist whites trying to blame their own cultures for the world's calamities.

But, the the chief subject matter in this thread, (besides my being a rascist), is about Muslim immigrants to the West, their hatred and disdane for the cultures they are (not) trying to be a part of, and that if it is so bad where they live, they should leave. Those are problems the West does not need. Neither do the Indians, Thai's, Jews, Sudanese, and every other culture that is having problems with the same group of people.



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 07:14 AM
link   

Originally posted by nathraq
Typical leftist reply. Once again, pointing the finger at 'whitey', for stating his opinion.

Is is not a right for foreigners to be in any country. It is a privilege. I did not say kick them out. I did not say they are evil and bad and commit 90% of the crimes. Those are words that are trying to be put in my mouth.


I think you missed my point. My point was that not all Muslims in the UK and other countries are foreigeners. Many of them may have been born in that country, it is their home. Why should they get out?

You said that you didn't think you should have to look at them when you walk down the street, and i was saying beacuse for many of it, its their home. And for those travelling, it may be a privellige, but I don't think that walking down the street without being discriminated against on the basis of your skin colour should also be a privilege.


And just for the record.. im white.

Lastly, in my opinion I think this thread is based upon the wrong ideals of the motives of these terrorists. It is not the 'Western Way of Life' that they want to destroy..

and let's not forget that Islam isn't the only religion to have its extreemist members.



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 07:42 AM
link   

Originally posted by ekul08

You said that you didn't think you should have to look at them when you walk down the street, and i was saying beacuse for many of it, its their home. And for those travelling, it may be a privellige, but I don't think that walking down the street without being discriminated against on the basis of your skin colour should also be a privilege.


OMG, that is not what I said, and taken completely out of context, again.

If you're gonna quote it, quote it right:




See, my point is, Paperclip, why should white people have to get used to seeing anyone other than themselves on a street in Europe? My point being Europe is white. Any one who is not white, living in Europe, is a foreigner, or of foreign ancestry. I again have to make a disclaimer: I am not trying to be a rascist. I am only pointing out the fact that those of various colors who live in Europe are guests, or at one time, their families were guests. If they do not like where they live, they should leave.


That is my complete statement, alluding to the fact that Europe is predominately white.

And not once person on this thread said kick all foreigners out. Not one person said kick all the ( insert ethnic or religious group here) out.

What was stated is ( I feel like I keep repeating myself, over, and over, and over, and over........): If you are a foreigner living in a country that you despise, then you should probably leave. Please don't let the better economic situation, and freedom from tyranny and chaos, be the only factor for your stay. We would really like to learn more about you, but your incessant lack of enthusiasm to be a part of a culture you chose to live amongst is rather disheartening, giving the natives of the host country a bad impression, and giving leftist, apologistic, anti-west, and the' blame-whitey' factions reasons to waste everybody's time with their apparent lack of pride and self respect for who and what they are.



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 01:07 PM
link   
The UK is made up of immigrants, it's whole history is one of immigration and assimilation, sometimes welcome, sometimes destructive but there are though very few racialy pure Englishmen, or Scottish or Welsh for that matter.

I know plenty of people whos descendents originate from Africa, The Carribean, India, Pakistan etc but they are so integrated and share so many cultural touchstones in common with me that I find it hard to regard them as anything other than British. However I don't buy into this the whiteman caused all problems in the world myth or have much time for those with a sense of resentement as look closely and you normally find that blame can be spread equally amongst all communitites for tensions, the Muslim community is no exeption. All people must acknowledge their part, the weak try to shift the blame. I'm proud of my country and the contributions it's made to the world, that pride is strong enough to accept cultural influences from elsewhere and also strong enough to say enough when those with an agenda of autonomy would try to erode that.

I agree if you hate this country and wish to undermine it why should you stay, go where your political beliefs are mirrored.

[edit on 4-8-2005 by ubermunche]



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 01:46 PM
link   

Originally posted by ubermunche
The UK is made up of immigrants, it's whole history is one of immigration and assimilation, sometimes welcome, sometimes destructive but there are though very few racialy pure Englishmen, or Scottish or Welsh for that matter.

I know plenty of people whos descendents originate from Africa, The Carribean, India, Pakistan etc but they are so integrated and share so many cultural touchstones in common with me that I find it hard to regard them as anything other than British.
[edit on 4-8-2005 by ubermunche]


Spoken like a true gentleman.

That is what I have been trying to say for the last 5 posts or so. Maybe your words will be more understandable to those who seem a bit 'confused' over what I have been trying to say.







 
0
<< 1  2  3    5 >>

log in

join