This essay explains how I became a believer instead of a debunker

I never spent much time concerning myself with UFO's and believed it was all hype. I am a Christian and therefore spent my time pursuing spiritual things. With the internet some research which was probably considered too overwhelming to pursue came within reach of the realms of possibility. I decided to dive in and find out for myself some answers to questions which were previously abandoned because of the complexity of the research.

What I discovered is extremely profound.

I decided to write an essay which explains the motive and the method as well as the discoveries so that thinking people might also have an opportunity to understand the profundity.

Here it is

Resolution of the long-standing argument between creationists and evolutionists will only ensue if there was undeniable proof of God. The atheist, agnostic, skeptic, philosopher, theocrat, presidents, kings, prime ministers and captains of industry would have to take a stand. Atheists would need to humbly submit themselves or directly and knowingly contend with God. Skeptics could no longer exist with undeniable proof of God. Democracy would become pointless if the truth flies in the face of what the greater majority believe. Can we vote for the truth? Philosophy and philosophers would now be redundant. Who would be held accountable if the present condition of the world is a result of what the most intelligent people are thinking. These are just a few of the questions whose answers are all hypothetical until someone lights the blue touch paper.

Regards

ablebodiedman

[edit on 3-8-2005 by ablebodiedman]

(mod edit: REALLY big quote, see T&C #8)

[edit on 8/3/2005 by Amorymeltzer]

That's a lot to cover. But, I'd just like to mention that if there were undeniable proof of the existence of God, life as we know it would cease to exist.

A. Not sure how this at all relates to UFO's...can you clarify this?

B.

There is now physical evidence which supports what is written in the bible. Not only circumstantial yet also now tangible proofs that God, Jesus Christ and Satan exists.

Tangible proof? Hardly. For example, archeologists may have found the remains of Soddam and Gamorra. Does that mean Angels were raped and God's wrath destroyed the town? If that is the case, then the discovery of Troy recently then serves as tangible proof that Paris had to award a golden apple to either Aphrodite, Artemis, or Athena...thus proving THEIR existance. See? Can't have the cake and eat it too...

C. I must have missed where Tunguska was mentioned in the Bible. Also, what exactly would God have been doing smiting an empty area? Testing out a new-found power or something? Oh wait....I know, "The Lord works in mysterious ways, right?" Or does an air-burst comet do the same thing? Why yes, yes it does. Besides, we have nukes far more capable than the blast of Tunguska (accepting for the moment, it was his wrath)....does that mean we are more powerful than God? Interesting, no?

Originally posted by Jeremiah_John
That's a lot to cover. But, I'd just like to mention that if there were undeniable proof of the existence of God, life as we know it would cease to exist.

There is already undeniable proof of the existance of God... Just look around you.

No, I am not a Christian.

Originally posted by CloudlessKnight

There is already undeniable proof of the existance of God... Just look around you.

I'm lookin around...........hmmm, all I see is what man has created. Guess we're gods then!

Oh and please, don't go sayin 'God created the universe', it's always been there, just as time has always existed. They are one and the same thing (we measure time using the movements of our direct time pieces - The Sun and The Moon)

Erm.......Is this the Space Exploration forum?

Originally posted by Gazrok
A. Not sure how this at all relates to UFO's...can you clarify this?.

I think the essay explains it nicely however here it is in a nutshell.


1.The bible says that Satan will be cast down to the vicinity of the earth prior to Jesus becoming king.

2. This confinement would be for an indefinite period of time.

3. The bible indicates that Satans physical apperance is cylindrical and very bright.

4. My essay explains how bible chronology gives a good indication of the time that Satan would be cast down.

5. At that time a very bright cylindrical object does indeed come into the vicinity of the earth except it is with so much power the scientists think it must be destroyed.

6. The bible indicates that Satan is not destroyed but will be the cause for many woes on the earth.

7. If this is true then during the 20th Century and now the 21st we should expect that people would actually see Satan in the earths vicinity and we could expect many reports of a bright shining cylinder which would quickly fall into the category of.......................................................UFO.

8. Thats how this relates to UFO's


Regards



ablebodiedman



[edit on 3-8-2005 by ablebodiedman]

Do a search on Tesla and Tunguska and you'll find something much more feasible.

Rather than examine the trivial and unexciting, why not go digging for the most profound and exhilarating? It was Carl Sagan who once said:

"Somewhere something incredible is waiting to be known."

Its interesting you quoted Carl Sagan...

Think of how many religions attempt to validate themselves with prophecy. Think of how many people rely on these prophecies, however vague, however unfulfilled, to support or prop up their beliefs. Yet has there ever been a religion with the prophetic accuracy and reliability of science?
Carl Sagan

Such reports persist and proliferate because they sell. And they sell, I think, because there are so many of us who want so badly to be jolted out of our humdrum lives, to rekindle that sense of wonder we remember from childhood, and also, for a few of the stories, to be able, really and truly, to believe--in Someone older, smarter, and wiser who is looking out for us. Faith is clearly not enough for many people. They crave hard evidence, scientific proof. They long for the scientific seal of approval, but are unwilling to put up with the rigorous standards of evidence that impart credibility to that seal.
Carl Sagan

The idea that God is an oversized white male with a flowing beard who sits in the sky and tallies the fall of every sparrow is ludicrous. But if by God one means the set of physical laws that govern the universe, then clearly there is such a God. This God is emotionally unsatisfying... it does not make much sense to pray to the law of gravity.
Carl Sagan

You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe.
Carl Sagan

Originally posted by Gazrok

B.

There is now physical evidence which supports what is written in the bible. Not only circumstantial yet also now tangible proofs that God, Jesus Christ and Satan exists.

his?

Tangible proof? Hardly. For example, archeologists may have found the remains of Soddam and Gamorra. Does that mean Angels were raped and God's wrath destroyed the town? If that is the case, then the discovery of Troy recently then serves as tangible proof that Paris had to award a golden apple to either Aphrodite, Artemis, or Athena...thus proving THEIR existance. See? Can't have the cake and eat it too...

Yes.

Tangible proof:


The Cake

The bible indicated that at a certain time Satan who is a bright shining cylindrical object would be cast down to the earth. It also indicates the period of time this should happen.


Eat it too.

At exactly the time expected a bright shining cylindrical object is witnessed crashing down to the earth leaving thousands of acres burned and devastated exactly as described in the bible.


Regards


ablebodiedman

7. If this is true then during the 20th Century and now the 21st we should expect that people would actually see Satan in the earths vicinity and we could expect many reports of a bright shining cylinder which would quickly fall into the category of.......................................................UFO.

8. Thats how this relates to UFO's

Fair enough, thank you.

Thing is, then how do you explain the numerous UFO incidents that have happened for the past century, or previously? This doesn't neatly fit into your theory....

Originally posted by Zion Mainframe

Its interesting you quoted Carl Sagan...

Think of how many religions attempt to validate themselves with prophecy. Think of how many people rely on these prophecies, however vague, however unfulfilled, to support or prop up their beliefs. Yet has there ever been a religion with the prophetic accuracy and reliability of science?
Carl Sagan

Who better to quote than the ultimate skeptic?


Religion and Science?

Ok, lets test this:

Science discovered that the Earth was round in the 1600's by Galileo.

Thats about 500 years ago.

Galileo at Wikipedia


Religion already knew the earth was round as indicated by the Prophet Isaiah.


Isaiah 40:22
22 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth,
and its people are like grasshoppers.
He stretches out the heavens like a canopy,
and spreads them out like a tent to live in.

Isaiah 40:22

This was about 740 BC

Nearly 2,700 years ago.

Here is the math.

Religion 2,700 years
Science 500 years

Difference 2,200 years.


Religion is ahead of Science by about 2,200 years.



I guess Carl Sagan was a little ignorant.


This information has been available for thousands of years. It is not Above Top Secret. I guess some people will still deny ignorance.

This has little to do with UFO's so I will not continue to add more unless the moderator says it's ok.



Regards

ablebodiedman

[edit on 3-8-2005 by ablebodiedman]

[edit on 3-8-2005 by ablebodiedman]

Without going back thru your essay, can you show me what scriptures support this claim?

3. The bible indicates that Satans physical apperance is cylindrical and very bright.

The bright part I have seen in scripture, but have not heard of the "cylindrical" part.

Thank you!

Originally posted by mpeake
Without going back thru your essay, can you show me what scriptures support this claim?

3. The bible indicates that Satans physical apperance is cylindrical and very bright.

The bright part I have seen in scripture, but have not heard of the "cylindrical" part.

Thank you!

3/ Bible verse ----- Ezekiel 28:13

Ezekiel 28:13

"Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy taborets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created."


A "pipe" is a very familiar word however, "taboret" is now an uncommon word in the English Language. Therefore the Merriam-Webster dictionary definition of "taboret" follows:


Main Entry: tab·o·ret

Variant(s): or tab·ou·ret/"ta-b&-'ret, -'r

A/Function: noun

Etymology: French tabouret,literally, small drum, from Middle French, diminutive of tabor, tabour drum

Date: 1630

1 : a cylindrical seat or stool without arms or back

2 :a small portable stand or cabinet



Regards


ablebodiedman

What about the accounts where Satan tempted Jesus during his 40 day fast in the wilderness. Are you telling me that it was a bright cylinder object that was walking with and talking to Christ?

Originally posted by Olafski
Do a search on Tesla and Tunguska and you'll find something much more feasible.

I did, and the Tesla theory has a timeline issue. sorry


(sorry to hijack the thread, but I had to respond to this.)


www.galisteo.com...
: In a cursory surf of the web, I've not found primary eyewitness accounts of Tesla's Wardenclyffe test, nor secondary news accounts of the day; tertiary sources abound, but only the message I reply to here and a Parascope's Tesla page provide even a qualitative idea of the time, given in both as "the evening of June 30". (The two accounts, in fact, appear to be identical.
:
(passage removed)

Now, Tesla's Long Island facility is -5 hours from GMT, or 12 hours earlier than Tunguska time. In other words, the Tunguska event occured at about 7:17 pm, June 29, Long Island time, about one day before the time given in web accounts of Tesla's Wardenclyffe experiment.

: So, if the qualitative web accounts of Tesla's experiment are trustworthy, Tesla had nothing to do with Tunguska. If anybody can provide eyewitness accounts of Tesla's activities, this could be nailed down, one way or another.

Follow up from Joe Wilson:
The Parascope account is sensationalized to say the least. Their use of the date "June 30th" is not arrived at by any documented evidence. The credible evidence suggests that Tesla was periodically conducting high-power experiments at Wardenclyffe during mid 1908, but "nailing it down" precisely is presently very difficult, because Teslas notes from the period are lost!!
Oliver Nichelson first proposed a Tesla/Tunguska link based on compelling circumstantial evidence. This evidence is not adequately reflected in any of the tabloid-style fictionalized accounts, that get quoted and re-quoted. People don't like scientific arguments based on circumstantial evidence, so they sometimes lie to fill gaps in their knowledge.
The true evidence is of a subtler form, residing in the nature of the Tunguska Blast & Wardenclyffe, and Tesla's demonstrated interest in the journeys of Peary.
Writings which make extravagant claims about non-existent first-hand accounts only serve to arouse the skepticism of otherwise open-minded people.


en.wikipedia.org...
The Wardenclyffe Tower
It has also been suggested that the Tunguska explosion was the result of an experiment by Nikola Tesla at his Wardenclyffe Tower, performed during Robert Peary's second North Pole expedition. Allegedly he had sent a communication to Peary advising him to be on the alert for unusual auroral phenomena encountered as he attempted to reach the North Pole. However, by 1908 most work at Wardenclyffe had already ended and the site was mostly abandoned. Nor is it obvious how a small power input at Wardenclyffe be responsible for a large power output elsewhere, something that is essentially a physical impossibility.

Regardless, if it was possible for the facility to produce such an effect, the main contention that Tesla was not responsible for the Tunguska event is that it occurred at about 7:17 AM. Given accounts (if they can be trusted) of when Tesla performed his experiments in the evening of June 30th. Tesla's facility was 1/4 a day ahead of Tunguska time. Tesla's Wardenclyffe experiment would then be the day after the Tunguska event (which occurred around 1:00 in the morning on June 30th New York time).

The essay was blown off by a moderator quoting some T's and C's.

Here is a link to the same essay on my blog:


ablebodiedman.blogspot.com... omething-entirely.html

It would be nice if a moderator could put this link into the original post.

Originally posted by ablebodiedman
I never spent much time concerning myself with UFO's and believed it was all hype. I am a Christian and therefore spent my time pursuing spiritual things. With the internet some research which was probably considered too overwhelming to pursue came within reach of the realms of possibility. I decided to dive in and find out for myself some answers to questions which were previously abandoned because of the complexity of the research.

What I discovered is extremely profound.

I decided to write an essay which explains the motive and the method as well as the discoveries so that thinking people might also have an opportunity to understand the profundity.

Here it is

Resolution of the long-standing argument between creationists and evolutionists will only ensue if there was undeniable proof of God. The atheist, agnostic, skeptic, philosopher, theocrat, presidents, kings, prime ministers and captains of industry would have to take a stand. Atheists would need to humbly submit themselves or directly and knowingly contend with God. Skeptics could no longer exist with undeniable proof of God. Democracy would become pointless if the truth flies in the face of what the greater majority believe. Can we vote for the truth? Philosophy and philosophers would now be redundant. Who would be held accountable if the present condition of the world is a result of what the most intelligent people are thinking. These are just a few of the questions whose answers are all hypothetical until someone lights the blue touch paper.

Regards

ablebodiedman

[edit on 3-8-2005 by ablebodiedman]

(mod edit: REALLY big quote, see T&C #8)

[edit on 8/3/2005 by Amorymeltzer]

Originally posted by mpeake
What about the accounts where Satan tempted Jesus during his 40 day fast in the wilderness. Are you telling me that it was a bright cylinder object that was walking with and talking to Christ?

Why not?


In fact after my discoveries I question wether Eve was speaking to a bright shining cylindrical object instead of a serpent.

What really convinces me of this is that the word for serpent in Hebrew can also mean shining one.

Here is a quote from a web site:

The Hebrew word rendered "serpent" in Genesis 3:1 is Nachash (from the root Nachash, to shine, and means a shinning one. Hence, in Chaldee it means brass or copper, because of its shining. Hence also, the word Nehushtan, a piece of brass, in 2Kings 18:4.

the quote can be found here:

www.theseason.org...


In regards to speaking to supernatural creatures however, here is an excert from the bible where the Apostle Paul is speaking to a very powerfull manifestation of light ......... lightning?:


Acts 9:3-6

3And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:

4And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

5And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

6And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.




So if Jesus when in human form spoke to a bright shining cylinder it's no big deal.


Deny Ignorance.


Regards


ablebodiedman

[edit on 3-8-2005 by ablebodiedman]

Originally posted by syrinx high priest

Originally posted by Olafski
Do a search on Tesla and Tunguska and you'll find something much more feasible.

I did, and the Tesla theory has a timeline issue. sorry


(sorry to hijack the thread, but I had to respond to this.)

Thank you syrinx high priest


for helping us to deny ignorance


regards


ablebodiedman

It's freightening how people take the Bible so literally.

I'm not saying there isn't truth in the Bible, I consider the Old Testament a truncated, patched and symbolic early history of Earth and humanity, but the New Testament I just see as a complete allegory.

I've yet to see anything that proves otherwise.

I'll read the essay when I have the time, but Satan as a glowing cylindrical object, who walks and talks?

I mean, that's pretty wacky, even for Christians!

It's freightening how people take the Bible so literally.

Indeed, especially when you consider the history of this work: rewrites, Translations, exclusions, etc. No other work with the same sort of history would be taken seriously by any clear-minded researcher.

If we look at it from the point of view of legal standards it would never be allowed to be used as proof of anything. For myself I reject any work on UFOs that is based on the Bible.

This is separate from my rejection of it as a holy book. Now I know people will want to believe that because I do not accept Christianity as my religion that causes me to feel as I do about it as a source. But that is simply not true, I will use anything, from anywhere, in my study of this subject. But I subject everything to the same standards and when I do so the Bible does not meet them in any way, shape or form.

What I see is a vain attempt to continue to promote a work which has lost it's meaning at the hands of self-centered men who yearn to maintain a control that is slowly slipping away. Originally there was something of value, today only the skeleton remains.

EDIT:

In re-reading what I wrote I realize it is somewhat more harsh than I intended. Ablebodiedman, I am glad you have joined us in the search for truth, and I respect the amount of effort you have put into your work. I stand by my comments as the result of years of study, but I understand why you feel as you do.

You can trace the evolution of the ideas presented in the Bible through the whole of religious thought. There are many examples of virgin births, strange stars, and beings with powers beyond those of mortal men. These ideas and stories do not originate with the Bible.


A.T
(-)

[edit on 8/3/05 by Alexander Tau]