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What if a PRez-Candidate Promised to Disclose?

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posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 10:20 AM
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great idea preelection, but post it would fail.

The newly elected president would say there is nothing or the real info would be hidden from him/her.

It is my opinion that MJ-12 was created for these reasons. That kind of info could not be going out every 4 years....




posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 11:17 AM
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Could it be that a person wants or intends to disclose, but then when they actually get to review what they wanted to disclose they realize it's much more than they orginally thought and change their mind??



posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 11:41 AM
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I would imagine so.

Personally, even with my interest in the subject, I am well-aware that there are tremendous repurcussions with full disclosure. Even if I was a president, I'd favor a gradual disclosure (but far more rapid than is being done now)....

1. Get people used to the idea of water on other worlds.
2. Get people used to the idea of microscopic organisms on other worlds.
3. Confirm #1 and #2 as scientific fact (where we are currently lagging)
4. Get people used to the probability of Extra-Terrestrial intelligent life.
5. Exhibit and confirm new theories of interstellar travel.
6. Disclosure (but not of everything, just basic concepts).
7. Full Disclosure.

Thing is, there is another caveat to this...

What if the government simply cannot counter an alien threat? If this is the case, it would certainly explain why no such disclosure would take place. It's hard to justify millions of dollars for a tank when it would bounce off the most vital threat.... Likewise, if charged with protecting the populace, and you were shown to not be up to the task, how do you then justify your (government) reason for existing? You can't.



posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 11:58 AM
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You know what your problem is, Gazrok?

You're a moderator and I can't give you a WATS.

I would if I could but I can't so I won't.

But that's great research; it sure cleared up some stuff for me.

You da man.



posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 12:02 PM
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Bah...kind words are worth more than a WATS to me


Glad to clear it up...(that's a great site by the way...the guys there really do their homework...it's one of my faves).



posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 04:06 PM
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I think Gazrok is probably right in thinking that "they" are taking a gradual approach to disclosure. The next step is to image an actual earth-like planet with the new telescopes being buit. That'll probably happen within 10 years.
However, am I the only one that doesn't care about the panic and turmoil immediate disclosure would cause? It may be selfish, but I want to know now. I'm tired of waiting. I've been researching the UFO question for most of my life and I am just plain fed up with not knowing whether I'm barking up the wrong tree or not.

I'm pretty sure that I'm correct in believing that UFOs exist, but confirmation from the officials would make my day...hell, it would make my LIFE. I would be too wrapped up in celebration and joy to worry about other people panicking. To be honest, I would feel superior in a sense.

I would wonder why those people were freaking out. It's just their fault for having such a small and close-minded worldview in the first place. If they had stopped looking at the ground for just one moment (metaphorically of course), just taken time to think and ponder the possibilities, looked out there at the stars and wondered...maybe they wouldn't be so devastated.

I suppose this comes down to the whole saftey/stability vs freedom argument. Personally I choose freedom. Who are "they" to make the decision that I should be "protected" from certain knowledge. Disturing or not, I think all people have the right to the truth.

That being said, I don't really think there would be a panic. UFOs and aliens are so imbedded in our culture, I don't think it would be that much of a shock. Well, it would be a shock, but not one that causes people to riot in the streets and stop going about their everyday lives. If anything it might help the state of humanity. It would make us realize that we're not so different after all and perhaps some of these petty little conflicts would end. Of course, it's because of this that disclosure won't happen. Not from our side at least...


[edit on 8/3/2005 by Flinx]



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 03:14 AM
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Pretty much with you there Flinx, although my general concern for humanity is perhaps a bit stronger. Gazrok's concept would be acceptable if the time frame was quick enough.

I think people overestimate the actual chaos that would be involved. Internally sure we would have a lot to deal with, but as far as jobs and the other hallmarks of Society goes I do not think the impact would be that severe. Humans are remarkable in how they can deal with even the most difficult of circumstances.

Man sitting in front of TV, stunned by the Aliens.

Woman comes in "Honey you are going to be late".

"Are you kidding? I am not going anywhere are real ALIENS on the TV!"

Blammo, she pops him upside the head "We still gotta eat you idiot."

"Yes dear" and off he goes.


Ok, now that I have got that out of my system. The unknown element is of course what might be involved with any Race that we might be in contact with. If for example it turns out that the first Race we meet is the one responsible for the Abductions (however many there may have been) then life gets a little trickier. If there are indeed complications beyond just the shock of not being on top of the food chain anymore then I would lean much more towards Gazrok's concepts.

But I certainly am sick of the status quo, and whatever challenges Disclosure might bring, I feel in the end we will be better off knowing.


A.T
(-)


[edit on 8/4/05 by Alexander Tau]



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 11:13 AM
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However, am I the only one that doesn't care about the panic and turmoil immediate disclosure would cause? It may be selfish, but I want to know now. I'm tired of waiting. I've been researching the UFO question for most of my life and I am just plain fed up with not knowing whether I'm barking up the wrong tree or not.


You may be underestimating the impact.

Lets look at the best case scenario...benevolent aliens, here to solve society's woes.... Absolute disaster... Why? Read on....

Example 1. The aliens present us with a cheap, reliable alternative fuel causing no polution.

Problems: What happens to all of those employed by the oil industry? Refinery workers, to the guy at the local gas station. The oil sector of a nation's economy sinks, unemployment skyrockets, and you've got a full blown economic disaster on your hands, in a very short period of time.

That's just one example, there are many more, depending on what technology is gained from such a disclosure/interaction. Even if we are sitting on advanced tech, it needs to be introduced gradually, lest you completely upset the apple cart. For all we know, we just may be seeing such an introduction all the time (a new chip here, a hybrid car there, etc. etc.)



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 04:05 PM
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Hmm...I was focusing more on the cultural impact, but you're right. There would be a huge shift in the economy. I believe that Steven Greer thinks that the inevitable economic turmoil is why disclosure hasn't happened. If we have free and abundant energy, all of the power structures that rely on oil and gas collapse, people loose their influence, their jobs, etc.

Of course, he also says it's irresponsible for them not to relase this technology when when people are suffering all over the world because of a lack of power and wars are being fought over black goo. I'd have to agree with him to some extent.

PS- Didn't Philp Corso say alien technology was slowly being filtered into everyday technology? Not that I really put much stock in anything he said...



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 07:30 PM
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I think one difference here would be the way in which the new technology was gained. Normally someone has paid for the research and wishes to profit from the new tech. The government does not control this and so a whole industry is destroyed while another begins.

But if the new tech is given to us then it would not be difficult to spread the profits around to reduce the impact. We could apply a little socialist thinking in a way that normally we could not. So instead of setting up new companies that replace the old Oil Companies we let the Oil Companies shift to this new tech and share in the profits.

This would require planning, and a bit of new thinking, but would that not be somewhat natural considering that with the introduction of Aliens to our worldview?

This sort of upheaval does not have to just happen, we can control it. This differs from the cultural impact that simply will come with Disclosure. That impact has always been the main worry of those in power.

A.T
(-)



posted on Aug, 5 2005 @ 08:27 AM
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But if the new tech is given to us then it would not be difficult to spread the profits around to reduce the impact. We could apply a little socialist thinking in a way that normally we could not. So instead of setting up new companies that replace the old Oil Companies we let the Oil Companies shift to this new tech and share in the profits.

This would require planning, and a bit of new thinking, but would that not be somewhat natural considering that with the introduction of Aliens to our worldview?


In a perfect world....but could all of the tankers, drilling platforms, trucks, barges, trained workers, etc. really be adapted to this new use? It's pretty doubtful. So, you've got millions of dollars worth of nothing but scrap metal, and workers who now have an obsolete skillset. While Corso may have some doubts regarding him, the basic idea of seeding high tech into the private sector via defense contractors is an intriguing one, and a likely solution to the "what if?" of getting this tech out there slowly.

While I'd love nothing more than to see the oil barons in the poor house, I'm not oblivious to the economic turmoil trickle-down effect that would occur...(or crashing-down effect).

Remember too, the oil industry was just ONE such example. The same could be applied to Health Care, Transportation, Defense industries as well, and likely others not off the top of my head.

And that is just the economic impact, to say nothing of the spiritual impact on various religions. If anything, Islamic Militant Terrorism has taught us how religious motivations can stir the masses to acts that violate their own tenets. Imagine the impact of the existance of other beings on such thinking? Could go one way or the other.... Imagine the intergalactic turmoil caused by even a handful of zealots detonating themselves near saucers to kill these new "infidels"... Would the aliens see them as just bad apples, or decide the whole barrel is rotten?



posted on Aug, 5 2005 @ 08:47 AM
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And that is just the economic impact, to say nothing of the spiritual impact on various religions. If anything, Islamic Militant Terrorism has taught us how religious motivations can stir the masses to acts that violate their own tenets. Imagine the impact of the existance of other beings on such thinking? Could go one way or the other.... Imagine the intergalactic turmoil caused by even a handful of zealots detonating themselves near saucers to kill these new "infidels"... Would the aliens see them as just bad apples, or decide the whole barrel is rotten?


Excellent point. I think I remember reading a book about the religious impacts of disclosure and the damage it would do to the various religions of the world. I didn't consider the suicide bomber possibility though. Perhaps that is why they have spent so long watching us, to determine the threat level by such groups. I don't think they would tar us all with the same brush though.

But this whole thread raises some very strong cases why disclosure will not happen any time soon. The fossil fuel problem; I think 1/5 of the worlds economy is based on the buying and selling of fuel. The impacts of a cheap energy source would be catastrophic. The religious aspect deals with the rest of the worlds population. The fact that the military cannot stop the UFO's from entering restricted airspace and would therefore be impotent in the event of an attack. Many reasons abound that speak against full disclosure. I don't see how any Government would be prepared to throw the world into such disarray.



posted on Aug, 5 2005 @ 09:38 AM
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The impacts of a cheap energy source would be catastrophic.


The impact of it being SUDDENLY introduced is the real problem. The method of introducing hybrids seems to be fairly sound.

Imagine we could build a reliable electric car that had the speed, accelleration, and range of a normal car..(ok, we can, but we'll continue anyhow....). Now, how do you go about converting all of the gas stations to handle electric? Who pays for this? If the shops do, you'll pay with higher prices, etc. etc. What about mechanics retooling their shops? Electric outlets in parking blocks for recharging? It's all great, but it's impossible to fully implement everywhere all of a sudden. There isn't the money or the manpower to do it, nor the economic incentive and means to do so.



posted on Aug, 5 2005 @ 10:28 PM
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Originally posted by Gazrok
Imagine the intergalactic turmoil caused by even a handful of zealots detonating themselves near saucers to kill these new "infidels"... Would the aliens see them as just bad apples, or decide the whole barrel is rotten?


That's something I've thought about too. I wonder... I think it might depend on how much more advanced they are than us. I mean, when I chimpanzee kills a person, we don't punish all chimpanzees and stop interacting with them. We just understand that it's part of their nature and accept it. On the other hand, we also tend to PUT DOWN animals that attack humans.


Anyway, if we believe some of the UFO lore, aliens have been killed by humans. Hell, we're supposedly shooting at them all the time. So I doubt they'd be all that surprised if some fanatics killed some of them. Surely they can see what we've done to each other. Maybe they don't care....individual lives make little difference to them. Who knows?



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