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Oh this is interesting...Please watch & listen to the PROOF

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posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 09:28 PM
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This is not about the Right or the Left. This is not about the Bush administration. This is about the NWO using the American Government for many years to gag the Americans and push the "agenda". Why people always argue left vs right while the world leaders/corporations divide and concour. Have the majority really become that stupid? It goes back before Reagan, this take over happened after Kennedy was shot. Its has been a long road for them and it is finally coming to fruitation.

These people that have done this to us set the board a long time ago. First they needed to make the government look like it cant keep secrets. Then they needed to remove some laws and regulations in order to make it so just a few conglomorates could own the media. Then the ball starts rolling faster, they did the first WTC as a prelude and a warm up. It failed on purpose. This has been a long multiple decade operation. They found long ago you cannot make fascism happen through force, you have to make the people beg for it through fear. It is so simple, I cant believe so many JUST DONT GET IT!

I could go on and on, but I just dont have time.




posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 09:57 PM
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Originally posted by LoneGunMan
They found long ago you cannot make fascism happen through force, you have to make the people beg for it through fear. It is so simple, I cant believe so many JUST DONT GET IT!


Very true. My signature basically sums it up....

"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on."
- George W. Bush, Gridiron Club dinner, Washington, DC, March 2001.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
- Jimi Hendrix

Edit: When the board is showing signatures!



[edit on 3-8-2005 by TheShroudOfMemphis]



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 01:34 AM
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You are correct, i didn't watch the whole video. Any sane person wouldn't when the first thing you see/hear is some nut-job lib "SCREAMING" at you.

I also liked your little added Fox News comment. A liberal friend of my brothers made a comment about how Fox News is a Republican backed news channel and left it at that like it was some HUGE coservative plot to take over America. So, i turned to MSNBC and said this channel is backed by Democrats and then turned to CNN and said the same thing. Then i added that CNN was on the air about 20 years before Fox News, what's your point?!?



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 07:42 AM
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Just because someone is screaming at you (which in my opinion is just
a matter of attempting to be emphatic due to the majority ignorance),
doesnt necessarily support the fact that they're disingenuous.

I think if most of you pay attention to the CONTENT of whats being
displayed, none of it is alluding necessarily that the administration
orchestrated the event, albeit a possibility, but at a minimum had prior
knowledge of the event. The bozo's in DC aren't bozo's when it comes
to an opportunist mindset. I think probably they DID have that prior
knowledge, and decided it was a perfect time to cash in. If you think
about it, its not all that difficult to come up with a scenario model of
public reaction on the fly with respect to what the ramifications of an
event like this would facilitate.

Ive seen SOO many posts here that counter with (and im paraphrasing
here), "do you really think that they could pull something like this off?"
oh COME ON...exactly how much brainwork does it take people, to fly
4 $%^&in planes into permanent structures? Exactly what would be
the toughest decisions there "hmmm gee should we come from the
north or south?"

The toughest thing for ME to swallow on that video was the remote
control of the planes into the buildings. Alex Jones would speculate
that a gas was released to render the crews and passengers
unconscious, but this doesnt stand up to scrutiny if you consider that
gentleman who called his wife from his cell-phone from the PA bound
flight.



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 08:03 AM
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alphabetaone,

The phone calls were all hoaxed.

If we're to believe the conspiracy, at least...they all "apparently" would have been unable to place cellphone calls (though I was able to place several - and use the in-flight phone - during various continental flights both before and after 9/11), or the calls placed were hoaxed using voice manipulation technology. I find this to be unlikely at best.

There are things about 9/11 that don't add up to me, either.

But Alex Jones is reaching....really, really reaching.

edit - sorry, misspelled your name




[edit on 4-8-2005 by Tinkleflower]



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 08:49 AM
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I think the gas being released on the passengers was mere speculation, what I pay attention to is the eye witness accounts, the children at the day care centre, the widowed wives screaming at the media to do something, larry silverstein exposing the truth without even knowing it, guiliani being told to flee from bld 7 and then commenting about getting rid of the evidence as if he innocently thought they didn't need it for an investigation, there is many sources in the video despite the fact that alex jones compiled it.

That's what I pay attention to, and the last thing on my mind is left vs right... Harping about political parties should have nothing to do with a nation's tradgedy, and just because bush was in office doesn't mean that republican's should still follow blindly and bend over and take whatever # he wants to # you up the ass with...

That's just being a bitch... A really stupid, ignorant, bitch....



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 09:07 AM
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I see george went off on a tangent last night with his speech.
Saying 'make no mistake about it, we are at war' then the miltiary guy from the pentagon come out saying we weren't at war this has everything to do with the economy and politics, 'when one uses the term war they are implying that military muscle is being used' bush wants to try and tell us now it's a global struggle against extremism, well brit hume counted how many time he and rumseld used it since they decided to change names, yesterday it was 15 times, these guys know what to say to us and how to say it, notice though that it's now a 'global thing'

what i'm watching for the countries in which there are apparantly muslim extremists, because those are the first countries to get #ed up the ass by the neo cons (extremists), unless of course they want what he wants (not just him his group of lobbyists and right hand men like pnac members ie/ rumsfeld/cheney)...

Look at this article that was ont he pnac website...

They also published a book in the "publicans and releases" icon a book called "Of Paradise and Power: America and Europe in the New World Order"

So here the link to the article they posted on their website...
I bet these guys jerk off whenever they see tankers and aircraft...

Power & Duty: US action is crucial to maintaining World Order

From the us presidential library 'the GHWB Library"
Here is his (george sr's) idea of the nwo
unitedelite.net...


Also Here is an article on the MediaTransparency website about left vs right winged media....

It's interesting to note that they mention Fox being the leading news channel since sept 11th because they wave the american flag on the bottom left screen to let people know they are "pro american" and I would assume one could make the argument that if you are going to expose yourself as being pro american you can most definitely believe anything and everything that those journalists have to say..hmm?


US Press credibility at a historic low




[edit on 4-8-2005 by TrueLies]

[edit on 4-8-2005 by TrueLies]



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 09:28 AM
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Originally posted by Tinkleflower
alphabetaone,

The phone calls were all hoaxed.

If we're to believe the conspiracy, at least...they all "apparently" would have been unable to place cellphone calls (though I was able to place several - and use the in-flight phone - during various continental flights both before and after 9/11), or the calls placed were hoaxed using voice manipulation technology. I find this to be unlikely at best.

There are things about 9/11 that don't add up to me, either.

But Alex Jones is reaching....really, really reaching.

edit - sorry, misspelled your name




[edit on 4-8-2005 by Tinkleflower]


First off I dont mind if you misspell my name, I hardly take offense lol.

Secondly yes, you're right, of course, if the conspiracy pans out then the
least difficult part of it would be to fake a cell phone call.


Personally, I think many that are viewing that video and these posts may
be of the assumtion that Alex Jones isnt presenting factual statements.
But like someone just recently mentioned, paying attention to the eye
witness accounts, Giuliani's blatent disregard for proper procedure,
NORAD standing down for approximately an hours time during which they
claim (and I do believe) that they thought it was a training exercise, and
the LARGEST point in my opinion, that being the fact that indeed, our
personal freedoms are certainly being infringed on in a way that is undoubtedly
unconstitutional, should be whats of paramount importance here. Who
cares about political agendas and right vs. left...this is about the average
Joe, you and me, those poor people that died in the name of it God just
imagine their panic and feelings of despair and if in fact there were
ancillary explosions in the towers the absolute feeling of BETRAYAL from
a country you love-not altogether unlike the feeling of betrayal perhaps
from a spouse or other loved one. I didnt have to live any of the personal
after effects of this unbelievable act, and I have heard people stating that
"Yes, I have absolutely no problem relinquishing some personal freedom
if it will keep us safer" ... all i can say to that is WOW...relinquishing your
personal freedoms is more than likely in my opinion, what BROUGHT this on
in the first place. I mean do the math here, we give the government the
right to FOOL us, yes we give them that right all in the name of national
security...this is no news, and has been this way for many years. In fact if
that WERENT true there WOULD be no conspiracy theories in the first place.
But we give them that right, to classify information as "Top Secret". Ooooo
TOP SECRET enough to insure that the information that WE AS A PEOPLE
need to make informed decisions about the job THEY are doing or lack
thereof, whichever appropriate. So, no matter what the information may
be in regard to, if the government deems it necessary to classify it as Top
Secret, then we are at the mercy of ONLY their judgement on the veracity
of that decision-even if it means that the end result will be the death of
almost 3000 unsuspecting and innocent civilians.

I think the barometer of Alex Jones' position is not so much in wanting to
make a buck for himself or to be a fearmonger as much as it is for one
simple thing...BE ACCOUNTABLE FOR YOUR ACTIONS and answer the
questions to us on the things that JUST DONT MAKE SENSE. This is OUR
RIGHT and part of our freedom to DEMAND answers not to HOPE for them.
We PAY THEM to be where they are... you and i, we pay them AND elect
and IF WE SO CHOOSE, we can also remove them if they choose NOT
to be accountable for their actions. My question to EVERYONE who may be
reading this thread is, do you feel satisfied with the answers to all the
events surrounding the 9-11 tragedy and the answers to ALL the
incredible evidence pointing toward foul play? If you answer no which I
resoundingly do, then we need to start making people accountable and
lay claim to our constitutional rights to GET THAT information.
Please people, I say this not in anger but in my caring for everyone when
I say WAKE THE HELL UP and please stop letting the elite get away with
atrocities that if, God forbid, at some point in time they might affect you
in a somewhat more personal fashion.



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 09:44 AM
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Reading this thread I see TrueLies saying the same thing over and over again: Forget who put the film together. Forget whatever motive you may ascribe to him. Forget the speculation and concentrate on the 3rd party information and reports presented in the film. But again and again people discount everything presented in the film because of its presenter and his personal 'take'. There exsists a vast, vast body of information from significantly diverse sources that simply invalidates the official explanation of 911 --- and in dramatic fashion. The desire/intent for such an event has been around for a very long time and clearly, it is well documented. Forget Republican/Democrat or right/left rhetoric. It's pointless and a useless attempt at preserving each or our personal realities. The inescapable fact is that there is something profoundly wrong going on. It's massive and its repercussions are historic in scope. Contrary to what a poster said earlier and clearly by subsequent responses to this topic, not everyone here on ATS does 'get this'. And until the majority of people do we are all in deep crap.



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 10:09 AM
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Now I don't know if I belong in the group that doesn't "get it" but allow me to clarify my position.

I think that it's entirely possible that the administration either knew it was going to happen and let it happen, or that they are so incompetent that they let it happen by doing nothing.

Either way to me, it is a crime and I am outraged that so little came of the official investigation.

However, even if they had prior knowledge and let it happen, that is a huge leap to, they invented every aspect, from al-qaeda to using bombs on all the towers.

I think it is more important to pay attention to the things that this administration is trying to pull off today and not pretend that they have power to conceal anything.

Just had to add. .

So are some of you saying that conspiring to manufacture a terrorist group, then hijacking planes/ remote controlling them, crashing them, setting off controlled demolitions, and attacking your own country would be easier than planting WMD is Iraq?

That is insanity, sure the act of hijacking and flying the planes would be easy, but having hundreds of people involved to pretend to be Osama, plant explosives, build remotes, and have all of those people more loyal to Bush than to their own country is ridiculous.

All they would've needed in Iraq would be a few Spec Forces teams, who are used to operating clandestinely.

It still makes no sense that they would be able to conspire on 9-11 but fail so completely on making Iraq look worth it.



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 10:24 AM
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Personally I think its a combination of plans partly working, some poor planning, some bad information and arrogance. Planting WMD's in Iraq? Yea, I think it would be possible. But if the opertaion was discovered the liability would be enormous. Besides, why bother? Let's say they knew the claim was bogus. Their goal was to justify going to Iraq. Once they got the OK and the check signed what did it matter? We've found no WMD but has the war been cancelled? Have the troops been pulled out? No. So they did what they needed to do to get what they wanted. Are all the claims floating around legit? Hell no. And I'm sure whoever is behind all this is happy as clams that there are people within the lunatic fringe making all sorts of claims like Elvis is responsible. It helps to discredit the legitimate claims. Disinformation 101. But look at the obvious stuff: The close cadre of people coincidentally involved in every angle. The lightning quick removal of all the evidence. Bldg 7. The drill and NORAD coincidence. VP taking control of NORAD. Delay in launching inteceptors and restricting their closure speed. Expert testimonies contradicting official statements. It goes on and on. Even without fat BL's there's way too much here that stinks and always has. We could be truly screwed.



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 10:39 AM
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Originally posted by LeftBehind
Now I don't know if I belong in the group that doesn't "get it" but allow me to clarify my position.

I think that it's entirely possible that the administration either knew it was going to happen and let it happen, or that they are so incompetent that they let it happen by doing nothing.

Either way to me, it is a crime and I am outraged that so little came of the official investigation.

However, even if they had prior knowledge and let it happen, that is a huge leap to, they invented every aspect, from al-qaeda to using bombs on all the towers.

I think it is more important to pay attention to the things that this administration is trying to pull off today and not pretend that they have power to conceal anything.

Just had to add. .

So are some of you saying that conspiring to manufacture a terrorist group, then hijacking planes/ remote controlling them, crashing them, setting off controlled demolitions, and attacking your own country would be easier than planting WMD is Iraq?


---Yes, because the government has more direct control over what information
---Can and cant be announced. Besides they didnt need to manufacture
---the terrorist group that already existed well to everyones knowledge.
---Setting off controlled demolitions? Wow thats a tough thing to pull
---off isnt it with Marvin Bush as the head of security for the entire complex.


That is insanity, sure the act of hijacking and flying the planes would be easy, but having hundreds of people involved to pretend to be Osama, plant explosives, build remotes, and have all of those people more loyal to Bush than to their own country is ridiculous.


---You dont need to pretend to be Osama, people already knew of his
---atrocities and his desire/intent to fight the infidels (read: USA). Just using
---his name would have been enough to do it.
---And the people arent more loyal to Bush OR the country..The money
---has always been and always will be the only loyalty/incentive they will
---ever need to justify it to themself. Imagine that wanting
---to make money off innocent people?! Im shocked


All they would've needed in Iraq would be a few Spec Forces teams, who are used to operating clandestinely.


---Perhaps, however obtaining the Materials FOR those WMD when we
---the USA are a part of the NPT of such weapons and are "allegedly"
---monitored just like everyone else would make it EXTREMELY difficult to
---get our hands on without notice yes EVEN for any clandestine blackops.
---Taking over 4 planes already in the scope of our control is substantially
---less difficult wouldnt you say?


It still makes no sense that they would be able to conspire on 9-11 but fail so completely on making Iraq look worth it.


---Actually they didnt fail, they were a success completely in making it look
---justified. They had to know, that at one point people would wise up to
---the actual justification for going to war, but that was and had to be a
---well thought out and calculated risk. With the tension of that area
---fresh already in peoples minds, they knew certainly it wouldnt take a
---whole lot of convincing whether fabricated or not to ensure the mass
---concensus of justification and by the time people did wise up knowing
---full well that it would be too late to change it and they would have
---secured their money (read:Oil).

[edit on 4-8-2005 by alphabetaone]



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 11:12 AM
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Not only in the oil money making business but also in the business of terrorism, investing in companies like aeroflex, curtwright, lockheed martin, boeing, goodrich corp, cubic, l3 communication, teledyne, ect would be well worth your whlie.. Oil and War are two big areas to leverage some of your money especially in the times we're in. As the story goes, Guliani made his millions in the terrorism industry right after 911 and now his own company guliani and associates.

And how could media make such hyped up propaganda? No one ever said that the media tells all lies. More like, much lies mixed in with a little bit of truth.

This is an informative piece of writing:

Pathos, Ethos, and Logos are all marketing tools that can be very successful if you know how to use them. Pathos is when you target your audience's emotions to pursuade them. This is use all the time, think about the last time you were watching TV and a commercial about children starving in Africa came on, this is classic pathos at work. The director of the commercial expect you to feel bad for the poor kids in Africa so you will send money to help them. Another example of pathos would be the President of the United States of America using the peoples anger and pain from the 9/11 attack to get them to back him on the War Against Terror. Logos is the exact oposite of pathos. Logos uses facts and logic to convice the audience of there point. The written law is a good example of logos, the fact that you will go to jail for robbery, assult, etc is a logical reason not to commit a crime. Finally theres Ethos which relies on a persons credibility to sway the audience in thier favor. If your teacher tells you that you need to study for a test you most likely will because you believe he/she is smarter than you and there for must be telling you something that will help you. Police officers rely on ethos every day, they are a credible figure head that can be looked to for help and protection.

Next time when you watch the news, think about these three things; ethos, pathos, and logos.

They use ethos (“why they should believe me”), logos (“factsand stories and data to back up my points”), and pathos (“to move them, to make them feel, to provide motivation”).

And You Be the Judge of how it's all possible.



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 11:25 AM
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Left behind, you need to think about things a little further ahead. Have you ever wondered why any sane country would stir up the hornets nest in the middle east so much as to attack Iraq? They want more terror, they want us to beg for martial law and relenquish our freedom so they can move ahead unipeaded. They want to see some REAL terrorism come to our shore not just the kind they staged. They know that to invade that country and when the Islamic people find that we did it for no other valid reason than to make it a foreward base in the Arab world, and take the resourses. Our soldiers are over there raping the women and destrying what little is left of there infrastucture. Abu Giab and all the horros it means to them, physical torture mean nothing compared to the feeling that they believe is going to keep them from going to heaven. They feel that when the sexual abuse don to them by "The American infidels" has jeprodized there way to heaven.

All of these things were done so that they would finally commit terror on American soil. How else can you explain it? Funny thing is that they still have not done it. I of course do not condone it, but when I place myself in theit shoes I think, would I just sit back and whach this happen to my people family and friends? Would you? I once read about a girl that was rapped over and over by Americans to the point that she beat her head against the wall until she was dead. You think some of our boys wouldnt do something like that? Go to the mall and take a second look at these young American youth, you will find some good ones, but a fare share of them look like thugs raised on violence. Now think about unleashing them on a country with free rein to do just about anything.

This is the reason we didnt plant WMD.

[edit on 4-8-2005 by LoneGunMan]



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 11:58 AM
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but, if WMD's were found, the war would be over wouldn't it? This could all be the driving force that justifies (in their eyes) going into a foreign nation in the first place and it can't be done without public approval.

Since there were no WMD's in Iraq (we all know Sadam had them, he used them) then they went "somewhere" ... ahah! Syria, Iran, (and who knows who else is on that list of targets) becomes a legitimate cause to invade.

Government hood-winking of the public isn't anything new, do you remember all the "black projects" that were funded by monies that went on the books as something entirely different than that which it was purported to be used for? Those $600 hammers come to mind. The CIA budget was probably a drop in the bucket of what was actually spent.

The Alex Jones video's are drawing conclusions from conjecture and however flawed that reasoning is, it doesn't change the fact that "something" is going on that the public is not being made aware of and how can anyone prove anything if those who perpetrated it are unwilling/unable to go on record to set it straight?

Isn't it plausible that the government has a hidden agenda and is selling the course of action to the public all the while having different motives entirely? There are too many inconsistencies to be overlooked and yet there is not enough proof to nail them down. As a result we get all the theories about what happened, some based on fact, some based on misconception, but bottom line, something isn't right with the "official" invesigation. Take the 911 commision, only $600 k was alotted to the biggest crime in American history and yet how many millions went into trying to impeach Clinton for zippergate?

As far as the finger on the trigger of 911, I have little doubt it was a government ploy, its the reason why and which government that has eluded many, myself included. In this regard I might be in denial since to admit that it was our own government that hit us is a pill too big to swallow for most of us. So lets just wrap the whole thing up and put it inder a blanket protection of National Securtity... this would be the reasoning behind a coverup. Who knows the underlying causes of Why, we might never know the actual How, or the When it was conceived, but it should merit further scrutiny and not just a blind following of the released facts.
Its like the black boxes, why else would they not be available if not to hide something and in these regards the American goverment has a duty to its people to provide answers. I'm not so thick to know that recordings can't be doctored or edited so at this point in time its too late to put any validity in what they contain but the fact that they were hidden in the first place speaks volumes.

We all heard the addage follow the money, and this is how people come up with these theories. My take is that when you have Cheney (former Haliburton) to name one, in a position of foreign policy that revolves around oil, it's no wonder that we are in an oil country. Bush also has oil interests as does just about any of the elite I'm sure. I don't condone the terrorists but the culpability spreads a lot further than the sands of the Sahara or the boardrooms of America. It has tentacles within probably every world government. How else could world opinion be swayed to allow it (the wars) to happen?

I look at things with an open mind and as such I don't rule anything out. That it is possible for Bush and friends to cook up 911 is a reality to me. Its the why that has me wondering and I don't think this has a thing to do with WMD's, that was just for the (world) public opinion. It probably is all about oil and the love of money... or some ideas by a think tank that predicts cause and effect and the "better good"

Remember the days after 911 when parties unknown (and protected by law from ever being identified) had made billions in betting the market would drop out of the Airlines etc.? I personally believe that if we want to win back the hearts and minds of world opinion, we should countermand that law, (at least on a commision basis and not publicly) and find out who knew beforehand.

Just looking at the 911 commision and how far that got us tells me all I need to know, they all have their hands in this. Its political influence on an organized crime scale and I'd hope that there are still those of integrity within the government that can't be bought/borrowed/bribed to keep it to themselves. Its doubtful we will though, the players had been handpicked. Any oposition becomes a target by these powers and as such, there isn't a whole lot going on other than the Alex Jones' of the world who are trying to open eyes and wake others up to smell the coverup.

Now the problem is that with so much noise rather than signal, the truth gets buried under mountains of inuendo and suspicion as to motive rather than bare fact from undeniable evidence.It can't be denied that all the debris from WTC was under guard and it wasn't until I came here that I even heard about it being shipped off to China for recycling. Why guard something that is considered scrap, or better way of putting it is why didn't the anlysis of the debris go forward instead of all evidence being removed?

I don't think China is stupid by any means and I'd hope that they caught wind of whats going on and if so, I'm almost willing to bet that they have held back on the recylcling at least until they conducted their own investigation. The fly in that ointment is that its doubtful anything in this was left up to chance and I'd bet it was all pre-arranged to be smelted immediately. ... doesn't mean the Chinese followed through with it though and who knows if they will ever come forward with it, but it also occurs to me that China being against the USA politically it would be easy for the guv to just outright deny it and say China manufactured evidence to undermine the people's Faith.

Its sad that we have all these suspicions, that freedoms are being taken away, that there appears to be a hidden agenda, and that the entire world is viewing us as the demons behind it all. It's up to us to make it right and I don't know that as individuals we have the ability. For one thing, taking it to our state reps has that air of trust in that the rep would even act upon the will of the people. For another thing, a single rep is as powerless to stop the powers that be as he/she is able to determine their reaches.

Only solution to this would be to disband the entire government and build it anew and that is nothing short of a coup which by all laws on the book is an act of treason and anarchy. None of us want to even go there. Next best thing is determining who in the government is trustworthy and back them. Then it falls down on the hopes of the people that the official we are backing is actually not just another tentacle of the original beast.

If the allegations are true, this is truly a sad time for American history. We have been black eyed by a government that was sworn in by us, for us, and is supposedly working in our best interest and yet its the corporate interests that is the driving force. We all know there are major players in the corporate boardrooms that aren't even American.

I still hold out hope that our governers will stand by the American way, the constitution, and the will of the people.
Without that belief, what have we got left? Impeach Bush? How many millions will that cost and yet the result isn't etched in stone.

After all is said and done, I leave it in God's hands, I can count on Him.

hah, I'm watching CSPAN and Robert Hunter (RAND Corp) just stated "we tried to go it alone, we tried to get others to help, and we're in trouble"
talking about foreign relations regarding the War on Terror.

It takes a think tank to figure this all out and maybe its a thiink tank that got us into it in the first place? sorry, just my daily rant.



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 12:24 PM
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Keybored,


No need to be sorry for the rant! lol its completely justified. I just want to
make note on a quote from a Tom Clancy film..Hunt for Red October.

"Sometimes revolution is a good thing, wouldnt you say?" - Marco Rameus

You mentioned that none of us want to go there, with respect to any
alleged act of "treason" or "anarchy". Anarchy is certainly NOT the way to
go, for reasons im sure i dont need to detail to you or anyone on here..
however, treason...hmmmm I will absolutely go on record as saying that
if caring about my brothers welfare, about my neighbor, about my family,
about my neighbors family, about a strangers family somewhere in the
country or world would be considered treason then I absolutely am in
favor of that act of treachery. Would I fight my own Government to secure
these "Founding Fathers Original Ideals" for this country? In a heartbeat.
As a side note I condemn violence but in the same breath cant provide
another way out of what we're now in without it. 9-11 is just the beginning
of a situation that I feel will become increasingly more precarious in the
not so distant future unless we TRULY stop it. And im not afraid to show
myself and stand up and be counted to secure THAT future generations-
my children when i have them- others families can BELIEVE once again
in their government and trust that they in FACT have their communities
in best interest.



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 01:38 PM
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Good post Keybored. Yes, we know Sadam had WMD's. And then we sent in international experts who swore up and down they could find no trace of them or the necessary infrastructure to create them. But we insisted. And guess what? Look people, this isn't about Bush or Cheney. Look at the system. Rich, powerful people select the person who they think is most electable and trot them out for the election. Not the best qualified, not the smartest, not the most stable... the most electable. Both parties, every time. Why? Because the elected person isn't running the country. It's the people who put him there. You know, that 'shadowy gov't behind the curtains'. To them this is just another act in a long, complicated play. And it's hardly unprecedented. Governments have been duping their citizenry forever. Look at pre-WWII Germany. Does anyone honestly believe that the German people were any different than we were? Can you honestly in your heart-of-hearts believe the majority knew what their government was doing and supported it? They undoubtedly heard the rumors and saw the evidence of the exterminations but could not bring themselves to believe that their government could possibly do anything like that --- or God forbid that they could be unwitting participants to it. The whole world was in denial. The proof was being shown to everyone and yet no one could bring themselves to see it for what it was. Until afterwards. Until it was too late. Are we so smug, so arrogant to believe that a similar thing couldn't happen to us here in the US? Especially with the much more sophisticated communications and media technology we have now.



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 10:01 PM
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Nice conspiracy theories. Did anyone MAYBE consider that terrorists didn't like the U.S., flew planes into our buildings because of our support for Israel. The U.S. invaded Iraq to prevent terrorists from getting WMD's from Saddam, who DID have them at one point in time. Also, that this isn't a war for oil, since we all still pay the same prices at the pump?

That's my conspiracy theory. Ironically it's the same facts that have been known for almost 4 years now.



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 10:39 PM
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Nice conspiracy theories. Did anyone MAYBE consider that terrorists didn't like the U.S., flew planes into our buildings because of our support for Israel.


We're all quite familiar with the official story, just as we are familiar with using question marks to differentiate questions from statements.


If the official story is based on facts, then I'm curious as to when the definition of the word "fact" was changed. Are we this far into an Orwellian world already?



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 11:30 PM
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Originally posted by Faust
Ironically it's the same facts that have been known for almost 4 years now.


Why was that in 2000 Coleman Powell stated that Saddam did not have WMD. That we destroyed them and our "no fly zone" and sanctions assured this.

He then went on to try and convince the UN and the world that he did have them.

Condoleza rice said the same thing in 2000, then when we needed the nice lady to lie she said: "we dont want proof of Iraq's WMD to be a mushroom cloud over an American city".

Yes it does seem we have gone very deep into the Orwellian world.

Edit for post script.

P.S. keybored that was a fine post, so were the two that followed it!

[edit on 4-8-2005 by LoneGunMan]




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