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Italy bans Islamic burqas

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posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 01:31 AM
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I think we should follow the Bible and make it a law to " Do not wear clothes of wool and linen woven together". - Deuteronomy 22:11

Then again, I'm a religious zealot.

Post Script
Don't give me that Jesus and a new covenant crap. You can't pick and choose what parts of the Old Testament you want to enforce. Either gays are ok or women who mensturate are 'unclean'.

You can't pick and choose what religious rule you want to keep legal. No burqas? Fine. Then I don't want to hear any more about the zombie God the christians yammer on about.




posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 02:55 AM
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Considering the subject under discussion - I find this News item concerning advice to Muslim women in the UK ironic!

I find it sad that the advice has to be issued.



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 03:22 AM
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Originally posted by hands
Considering the subject under discussion - I find this News item concerning advice to Muslim women in the UK ironic!

I find it sad that the advice has to be issued.


That is sad. I used to date a black woman when I lived in Texas. If someone would of told me that in order to reduce racial crimes, to stop dating a black woman, I would of said, "Screw you!"



Screw you! Racist bastards!



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 06:09 AM
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Originally posted by curme
That is sad. I used to date a black woman when I lived in Texas. If someone would of told me that in order to reduce racial crimes, to stop dating a black woman, I would of said, "Screw you!"

Screw you! Racist bastards!


huh? I'm not sure I see the relevance with this topic. Could you please elaborate ?

Thanks!



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 06:42 AM
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"burqa or chador -- traditional robes worn by Muslim women to cover their faces -- or full-faced helmets or balaclavas in public. "

just wondering, are the nuns gonna have to change their traditional dress also??? I mean, I doubt if anyone would be hiding a big bomb in that facial area of the body anyway, and well, the rest of the outfit is pretty much the same.
and, well, I am still stunned by just how easily these terrorists seem to be going from country to country anyways. seems to me that the first place the nations (including the US) should be centering their attention on is the borders!! osama himself probably could easily walk into the US!! It's like they are saying that hey, we know these men are terrorists, and well, they want to blow us up!! here, look, see, we even have their pictures here. but, well, we've failed in our attempt--didn't try really-- to keep them out of our country, so now, just kind of bend yourselves every which way, change your habits, change your beliefs if you have to, whatever, to make it easier for us to find these people as they are walking down our streets.......

The terrorists could just as easily dress up in the garb of a nun and be just as effective........let's see Italy try to ban that one!



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 11:55 AM
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Originally posted by dawnstar
"burqa or chador -- traditional robes worn by Muslim women to cover their faces -- or full-faced helmets or balaclavas in public. "

just wondering, are the nuns gonna have to change their traditional dress also???


WEll I do not know about Italy and the practice of wearing habits there but here I have not seen one in years except during a church service.

Also there is a very big difference a burga covers the whole face a habit does not.



Burga



With a Nuns habit as you can see there is one big difference. In the case of a nun you could easily identify them while you cannot with a burga



[edit on 8/4/2005 by shots]



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 02:28 PM
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Originally posted by MauiStacey
Good for them! Now the rest of the world needs to follow. Too bad the USA doesn't grow a set of garbanzos and create such a law.

The US, in fact, does have such laws. Its illegal in many places througout the US to be in public and have your entire face covered. The KKK, for example, can't march in NYC with their hoods on. Hoodlums wear hoods. THe only people that would cover their faces at public demonstrations and the like are people commiting illegal acts and wanting to conceal their identities.

But as far as banning the burka specifically, that would be clearly unconstituional. For the life of me tho, I can't figure how a person can come to the US, or Italy, and wear a burka. Whats the point of moving to these places if you are going to do that?

I have also been told that there is no such requirement in the Koran. Not for burkas, not for covering of the face, and not even for wearing a scarf. Jews have more of a requirement to wear yarmulkas than muslims have to wear scarves. Indeed, lots of muslim women don't wear these degrading things and yet are still pious muslims.
Realistically, it seems like something that primitive tribes do, like the arabs when they were still nomads, and the like, and thus more of a cultural thing that a religious thing anyway.


Heck in Italy all they've done is increase the fine for wearing a mask in public anyway.


Curme
If only we had a ban on mullets,

Bwa ha!


Screw you! Racist bastards!

The people that made the recomendation were islamic scholars....

chairman of the Council of Mosques and Imams Dr Zaki Badawi said removal was justified, as wearing it in the present climate might invite harm.


dawnstar
just wondering, are the nuns gonna have to change their traditional dress also???

Since nuns don't cover their faces, I'm going to go with 'no' on that. Indeed, lots of traditional roman catholic italian women wear headscarves.

but I think in public areas you should be able to dress how you please.

Its public, not private. Public Laws should apply. A law against concealing your identity in public is sensible enough.



The western world is always going on and on about?


  1. The change is an increase in fines for concealing your face in public, whether you do it with a burka or a richard nixon mask or a kkk hood
  2. There are no religious obligations to wear a burka

Its also preposterous to complain about a loss of freedom here, when these women are, in their home countries, required by law and social custom to cover their bodies completely, let alone like in the wilder parts of pakistan where they can be gang raped by the order of a religious court in order to compenstate a tribe that has suffered a loss of one of their virigns. Eye for eye, hymen for hymen apparently.

what freedom of religion do westerns have when they visit Islamic Countries ??

Indeed, in saudi arabia, only the Sunni religion is legal, and non-sunnis, like jews and christians, have to obey sunni tribal customs, like wearing headscarves. Its absurd for anyone to complain about a lack of religious freedom because of this burka issue. The very places where these women are comming from fare far worse in terms of personal freedoms hence the loathsome practice of wearing burkas.



Dress standards are prescribed in the Qu'ran

What specific passage there says that women are required to do any of this? These are cultural practices, not requirements of a religion. Also, that page is a load of garbage. Arabs and primitive tribal people cover up their women because their women are chattle. It can be justified as 'protecting' them all anyone wants, but its certianly not. They cover their women because they don't want anyone else damaging the goods. These women are covering up that which is womanly to satifsy the same priggishness that was ripe in europe during the dark ages over the female body.
The second page even notes:

No precise dress code for men or women is set out in the Qur'an.

Every religion has some code of behaviour, and these hajibs are taken as a sign of living modestly. I notice that men aren't under any sort of similar compulsion to dress similalry modestly. This is like in old supersituoius europe, where you had to make sure that you didn't stand out, lest a jealous viewer gives you the evil eye. And this modesty requirement can be fufiled in a hell of alot of ways other than women covering their entire bodies in a cloak or hiding their hair and face behind a big peice of fabric.

sour grapes
So basically, the men aren't to be trusted?

Indeed, this is why the religious paramilitary police in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia will throttle young men who linger looking at women. This is why brothers and uncles will murder their neices and sisters if they have behaved 'immodestly'. Its a disgusting cultural pratice that, thankfully, lots of muslims don't bother to follow.


sirr1
It's clear that Burqas are being banned for one clear reason.
The terrorist attacks in Europe over the past year (

Psst....the law was already in existence before those bombings.

I understand your point, this is a reaction to islamic fundamentalists engaging in a secret war against the very countries that they live in. And as such, you obviously can't permit people to go around wearing masks and obscuring their identities. This law makes it fineable (indeed, the recent action merely increases the fine) to cover your face completely in public, whether its with a burka or pullover.

Islamic women of the Muslum faith use Burqas as part of religon forced dress code.

This is simply not true. Burkas are an afghan invention, i beleive. They are a practice that is a hold over from a primitive tribal time. Muslims are not required to do so. Thats why the taliban had to make it a state law for women to wear it, and thats why the women in afghanistan aren't wearing it as much now. Thats why iraqis don't wear these ridiculous things, nor syrians, not turks, albanians, nor even Muslims in america. Covering the face is cultural. And the burka is completely a cultural invention. European women, unless they were immodest harlots, covered their bodies and faces and heads in the dark ages. Yet there is no christian law that forces this, even tho there are strong prohibitions against excessiveness, sinfulness, and sexuality.


SS
do you think i'll let anyone or any law stop me?

Since there are no laws as such in australia, its rather irrelevant. ANd if you lived in italy and wanted to wear a burka, you'd be fined. Its pretty simple. Are you not required to obey the laws of the government you choose to live under? Is not there a stronger empahsis justice and being right with the proper government than being immodest and dashing about in a burka?

What part of freedom don't some of you understand?

What part of "its illegal to hide your identity in public' don't you understand?

What's next, your going to burn down mosques and tear the hijab off of women?

Hopefully they won't have religious courts that order the gang raping of women or religious police that prevent women without these idiotic coverings from leaving burning buildings!

shroud of memphis
you conform to their laws the same way you live under the laws of the western world.

And when you go to italy or most western countries you do not get to run around in a full body shroud with your face and identity completely obscured.



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 03:13 PM
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Originally posted by Syrian Sister

Originally posted by BaastetNoir
what freedom of religion do westerns have when they visit Islamic Countries ?? none...


Is that why there where christians living in Syria, Iraq, Lebanon , palestine with no event for ever a thousand years, with complete freedom of religion?

Well, is it?


well if you consider beeing arrested for teaching the Bible freedom of religion...good for you

Besides Muslims DO have freedom of religion all over the world... where have Muslims been forbidden to teach and practice their religion ??
nowhere not even in pison ... If anything they are the ones who enjoy forbiding everyone else to pratcice their own religions ...

So what excatly are you complaining about ??

Complaining just for the sake of complaining, right ?

Do you wear a Burka ?? No you dont, so ? In fact in your post you say you refuse to use the other coverings...

But its MY business if people wearing Burkhas covering their faces may cause situations that threat my security.

Instead of defending a Burkah, you should be FIGHTING against it, according to the Kuran Allah loves all equaly, right ?? He is a great guy, right ? than do not support those who humiliate and despise woman in His name.

Find another excuse...

Someone in this thread (cant remember the name ) quoted an article that claimed " Burkahs protect Muslim women"...REALLY ?????...is that why Women that wear Burkhas get rapper as well ?? and beaten by their husbands and family?? and stoned to death ?? what an awsome protection that is..

If you wish to fight something, fight against to dumb A$$holes, that abuse and murder Muslim women under the excuse of the Kuran Laws...

A Burkha is nothing but another way to repress Muslim women... FIGHT against that SyrianSister... Fight against those who use your religion as an excuse to repress YOUR sisters.

and again... Our face is the MAIN point of identification we have, therefore IT CANNOT BE COVERED... otherwise one of these days we will have all sorts of criminals converting to Islam and wearing the new Islamic "item" the "Man-Burkah", and using that as an excuse not to be identified....


this is a completely incorrect statement, you are not ordered to wear the hijab in islam at all. It's a choice, and some would argue it's not in the koran.


Is that why a Muslim woman (amongst many others) was interviewed and claimed she was cut out of her family for refusing to wear it ?? It's not much of a free choice when you have social pressure coming from your own family, is it ? But i get your point, i think...


THat's why i choose not to wear it. But if one day i change my mind, do you think i'll let anyone or any law stop me?


Lucky you, maybe you dont have your family up your neck because of it ... You dont have a husband that will beat you up if you dont wear it, and you probably dont live in a Muslim country either...


And if someone wants to wear a burkha, wether it's because of their religion or their culture . And if want to wear a mexican hat tomorow, even if you ban them, i will wear them!


now you're beeing exagerated, but i think you know that... Hats dont cover our faces... and if they do you will be asked to removed them at the airport, just like I was asked to remove my sunglasses when i showed my passport, and in another situation i was even asked to remove my reading glasses, because my passport pic is "glass-less"... i had no problem with it ... i have nothing to hyde.


What part of freedom don't some of you understand?


I understand freedom better than you think... that is why I TO HAVE THE FREEDOM of not wanting people walking around hiding their faces.... specially when those people are of the same nationality as Muslim Terrorist... I have the right to FREEDOM AS WELL... and why should I refuse MY FREEDOM in order to keep someone elses FREEDOM, specially when that person may cause me harm ?

Why have prisons than ?? FREEDOM FOR ALL ! Lets turn this world into the biggest FREEDOM PARTY of all times... Lets see how much you would like to have a rapist using his freedom to rape you ... lets see how you would feel if a suicide terrorist hidding under a Burkah used his freedom to blow your family appart ...and lets see how long it would take you to start complaining about it.


What's next, your going to burn down mosques and tear the hijab off of women? OH wait, That's already happened! Those things aren't put into law just yet, but i don't think we will wait long to see you do that.


Churches have been burnt down as well, Christian women, and children entire families are beeing butcherd my Muslims in Africa... will you complain about that as well ??

The point of this thread is not wich religion is worse, or what God is better, its simply

Is a Bukrha something that should be banned ... YES IT IS... wether it is for security reasons or just for the very "simple" fact that it is repressive to women, and I as a woman would like to see it banned. I mean it wasnt even "ordered by Allah", its male-pig man made religion.

I'm sorry but the moment a religion (whatver it may be) threatness my or my families security I dont welcome it anymore.

Just like if a Christian came to me and told me you can only know God if you nail yourself to a cross, i would tell them to put the nails where the sun doesnt shine...



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 03:22 PM
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The world is at war with terrorism MUSLIM terrorism


I don't think that's quite it...

It's more about why it's not a good idea to wear a ski mask into a convenience store...


Still, making it illegal is probably not the best angle to take here... Do they really think such a restriction will help this?

I do agree on the earlier issue of the Driver's License bit though. Since that document is for identification also, one should not be permitted to obscure the face for that photo, regardless of beliefs. (If they wish to be THAT strong in their beliefs, then too bad, you don't drive).



posted on Aug, 5 2005 @ 03:50 AM
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Curme

You just put the point in the best way that it can be possibly put, and i salute that.

Sour grapes

You need me to explain the relevence of curme's statement?

IN the article he posted, it said muslim women in the UK are adviced to take off their covering to reduce hate crimes.

He said, if at the time he dated a black women, someone adviced him to leave her to "reduce hate crimes"

He would have told them, Well i can't really say it as well as he did. Can you see the relevance of his statement now?

Bastre Noir




: Originally posted by Syrian Sister

: Originally posted by BaastetNoir
what freedom of religion do westerns have when they visit Islamic Countries ?? none...



Is that why there where christians living in Syria, Iraq, Lebanon , palestine with no event for ever a thousand years, with complete freedom of religion?

Well, is it?



well if you consider beeing arrested for teaching the Bible freedom of religion...good for you


No christian has ever been arrested for teaching the bible, in Syria, lebanon or Palestine.

Since you started of your statement with a falacy, why would i bother to read the rest of it?


[edit on 5-8-2005 by Syrian Sister]



posted on Aug, 5 2005 @ 04:09 AM
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actually syrian, there have been christians arrested in palestine, just an FYI.



posted on Aug, 5 2005 @ 05:24 AM
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Originally posted by Syrian Sister


Sour grapes

You need me to explain the relevence of curme's statement?

IN the article he posted, it said muslim women in the UK are adviced to take off their covering to reduce hate crimes.



Actually, I posted it and he quoted it . (I know I'm being pedantic!)



posted on Aug, 5 2005 @ 01:04 PM
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Originally posted by Syrian Sister
No christian has ever been arrested for teaching the bible, in Syria, lebanon or Palestine.


Really "Sister" ??? wow ..you have to go out much, and start reading some REAL news..check these out

Assyrian Christian Arrested

and i can post alot more, but this one is mroe than enough to show you that you are WRONG.


Since you started of your statement with a falacy, why would i bother to read the rest of it?


My dear "Sister", not only you read ALL of my post, but also it hit YOUR nail right in the head, and thats where your litle arrogant atitude came from...

Face it...you dont have much "gas" to you when your faced with facts.

and it shows alot of hypocrcy from your behalf to defend a burkah when you dont even use one...

Burkhas SHOULD BE BANNED no metter what religion they belong too, just for the simple fact they prevent precise identification of the individuals wearing them.

(sorry to everyone for the spelling mistakes)



posted on Aug, 5 2005 @ 02:41 PM
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They should just ban clothes alltogether, especially from women, good looking women ... grrrr ...


Just kidding


However I think this banning burqas is a bit ridiculous, since you can hide weapons in normal clothes aswell. Not that this will have any significant results either, the Italians are basicly just disrespecting Islam, actually, it might only make things worse, provoke muslims, add to the list of "causes" on which the al Qaeda "justify" their attacks on westerners, that they can actually back up, these "causes" would then be used to manipulate more muslims into becoming al Qaedas flunkies.

Anyway, it doesn't bother me.



posted on Aug, 5 2005 @ 03:02 PM
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The "Burgha" that you're referring to is perhaps not quite what you think it is. "Burgha" is the traditional veil of the orthodox religious women of Afghanistan. It covers the enire body, including the face. The Burgha is ONLY worn by orthodox Afghan women, and nowhere else in the Muslim world.


[edit on 5-8-2005 by Siroos]



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