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Did Jesus Even Rise From The Dead?

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posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 12:33 AM
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Originally posted by jacquio999
Not at all. To me the Bible (it thats the book) is a hypothesis, and a sketchy record of events that may or may not prove a point. Kinda like this website! Ill agree with you if you think people cling to the Bible too much, though its probably a lot more accurate than the "Da Vinci Code". Catholics did just fine without one for quite a while.

But honestly, my beliefs are based on my own experiences and rational consideration-- not too much faith involved with me Im afraid-- but I dont want to go preacher on you guys.



YOUR KIDDING ME....They did fine????? Don’t you listen at all? I hope you weren't a CATHOLIC CHILD! There is a BIG difference between Religion, and Christian man




posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 12:34 AM
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Originally posted by WolfofWar
The only definite we know, was that there was a man, born in nazarath, named Jesus, but then again, alot of people have similar names.


Why do you think even this much is definite?

(by the way, there was no Nazareth in the first century)



posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 12:39 AM
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(by the way, there was no Nazareth in the first century)


What do you mean?
There existed no place ''Nazareth'' ?

helen



posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 12:39 AM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
Perhaps the mere factoid that unlike the Sumerians, over 2 billion people believe that this individual arose from the dead.


Argument from popularity coming from someone who's won the WATS award!? Perhaps I'm at the wrong site.


Originally posted by Seekerof
You are aware that the very cornerstone of the foundation of Christianity rests solely on the resurrection of this individual. How interesting that just a few men could turn this so-called Sumerian myth into the worlds largest religion and religious belief. Interesting, no?


Not particularly.

Islam is a close second, or hadn't you noticed? Besides, I seriously doubt you consider Catholics to be True Christians™, so why don't you subtract over a billion off your argument from popularity?



posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 12:42 AM
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Originally posted by helen670



(by the way, there was no Nazareth in the first century)


What do you mean?
There existed no place ''Nazareth'' ?

helen



Exactly that. "Nazareth" was a transliteration error that was later turned into a real place by the Catholic church in an attempt to cover the blunder.

The city theology built



posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 12:45 AM
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sent to a small town of Nazareth, situated in the Zebulun
Galilee, “to their own city, Nazareth.” Saint Luke omits everything
settled in the township of Nazareth, where he pursued his trade
earthly life. To be from Nazareth is to be despised, humiliated,
eyes of the citizens of Nazareth, Joseph was Mar’s husband
obediently went with them to Nazareth, and as the Evangelist notes, “
Baptism.~“Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee…” Evangelist
it is specifically from Nazareth of Galilee. Apparently,
prophets, wrote — Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.” However,
anything good come out of Nazareth?” Apparently, Nathanael
acclaim among the Jews, and Nazareth, this small township that
hours walk toward north of Nazareth and was called Galilean
and spending some time in Nazareth, the whole Holy Family headed
left His native town of Nazareth - witnessing that a Prophet
to do with You, Jesus of Nazareth? Did You come to destroy
Sermon in the Nazareth synagogue.~(Luke 14:16-30).~
seen that the Lord came to Nazareth long before the very beginning
that the Lord’s visit to Nazareth — as described by Saint
them.~Upon entering the Nazareth synagogue, the Lord began
Bethlehem, brought up in Nazareth, but lived in Capernaum.”
than the hated Jesus from Nazareth, and therefore did not want
The Second Visit to Nazareth.~(Mat. 13:53-58; Mark 6:
13:54; Mark 6:1) i.e. to Nazareth — His Mother’s and Joseph’
Him. (Luke 4:28-29).~In Nazareth, the Lord “did not do many
Tabor in Galilee, south of Nazareth on the magnificent Israeli
that replied: “Jesus of Nazareth.” “I am He” the Lord responded
again they reply: “Jesus of Nazareth.” The Lord then says: “I
also were with Jesus of Nazareth,” and went on to say to
fellow also was with Jesus of Nazareth.” Yet another turned to
be inscribed: “Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews.”
from Samaria. Sermon in the Nazareth synagogue. About equality


here



posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 12:47 AM
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Originally posted by darkelf
Why not indeed? Why not go the whole nine yards? Let's dismiss all forms of spirituality as myth and legend. If it is not logical or proven by science, then dismiss it.


Ok, you have my vote.


Originally posted by darkelf
If we all did this do you think society would be better than it is?


Yes.


Originally posted by darkelf
Or perhaps we would just find other things to go to war over.


Yes.


Originally posted by darkelf
In order to answer the OP's question, you have to at least assume that there was a historical figure named Jesus who was crucified and reported by many to have been raised from the dead.


I disagree. To the extent there are implied assumptions that might be false, it's proper to question them. If I ask you "have you stopped beating your wife", are you obligated to answer that question directly, or would it be proper to address the implied assumptions that are (hopefully) false instead?



posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 12:48 AM
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Just because a site that is called ''www.jesusneverexisted.com''
Does not make it TRUTH.

your kidding!

IX
helen



posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 12:50 AM
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Originally posted by helen670

sent to a small town of Nazareth, situated in the Zebulun
...
here



The point is?



posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 12:51 AM
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Originally posted by helen670
Just because a site that is called ''www.jesusneverexisted.com''
Does not make it TRUTH.

your kidding!

IX
helen


You are either a speed reader or didn't bother to read it. I'm guessing the latter. Why ask questions if you are unwilling to follow where they lead? Just go to church and leave the thinking to others.



posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 12:57 AM
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I'm posting one last thing in here and I'm out... BTW this is going in both threads I'm involved in.

Matthew 10
14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

God bless all...We all have hope...God saved me



posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 01:03 AM
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Spamandham......


You are either a speed reader or didn't bother to read it. I'm guessing the latter. Why ask questions if you are unwilling to follow where they lead? Just go to church and leave the thinking to others.


Why would I want to go and read into a site that is LIES?
the Jesus never existed site.
No thank you.

And yes, I did read a little.....and then went to the home page and didn'y want to get lost!
IX
helen



posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 01:51 AM
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Originally posted by spamandham

Originally posted by darkelf
In order to answer the OP's question, you have to at least assume that there was a historical figure named Jesus who was crucified and reported by many to have been raised from the dead.


I disagree. To the extent there are implied assumptions that might be false, it's proper to question them. If I ask you "have you stopped beating your wife", are you obligated to answer that question directly, or would it be proper to address the implied assumptions that are (hopefully) false instead?


Hopefully you would not ask that question unless you had reason to believe that I was a wife beater. If you had read or heard that I was guilty, then you might have a reason to ask that question. The OP has obviously heard the story of the ressurection of Jesus. He wanted to know what we thought of his theory.

Since his theory is based on the assumption of a historical Jesus, one must assume that this historical Jesus did exist in order to challenge or agree with the theory. It is pivotal to his theory.

To completely dismiss the OP's theory because you do not believe in a historical Jesus does as much disservice to his theory as those who quote scripture to prove him wrong. In other words, you are not answering the question.


Originally posted by Nakedsuperman
If the Mary Magdaline theory is true, and Jesus was married to her, they must have loved each other very much. After death, she was the first person he visited. I asumed that it may be possible, that he appeared to her as a phantom. A christian friend of mine refuted this with the fact that he appeared to a room full of people. Then I began to think about the possiblity of a multiple phantasm. Many people loved Jesus very much. So, What I'm saying is... Is it possible that Jesus never even rose from the dead, but was seen only as a multiple phantasm by the many people that loved him?

-NakedSuperman


The OP is asking that if this is true would his theory hold water. Since there is no valid scientific evidence of a historic Jesus, then his theory is based on a theory to some.

This entire thread can be construed by some as an attack on their spiritual beliefs. I prefer to look at it as someone who is questioning and perhaps looking for answers.

Keep looking NakedSupeman.



posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 01:53 AM
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I am greatfull for all of the comments I have been left. Thank you very much. In response to a question, I do not believe in the bible. The bible is a lie/metaphor filled historical document. I belive that it began as truth, with a few metaphors to explain the good that Jesus did. I do not believe that Jesus was the son of god, but merely a prophet that did much good int he world. There are many good people today, many that do the same good that Jesus did, but they are not asumed to be divine. I believe the bible has been changed and manipulated, majorly by the Catholic church over the years that they where the Kingpins. Now it is soo diluted that it is impossible to tell what is true.

My little theory was merely a thought I brewed up on a car ride from Kansas to Oklahoma, but I thank you again for the comments that I got.

-Nakedsuperman



posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 08:15 AM
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Finding Jesus in archeological time and history has been one of the most debated subjects in history.

Millions of people worship christianity and the believe that a single man die for the human kind in a cross and they are patiently waiting for his return.

This are the bases of the Christian religion and the origianl church. The point and research sould be in how cristianity has become so popular rather than proving if Jesus ever existed.

Historical the existance of Jesus the Man has been proven a littler bit easier to swallow than the existance of the divine christ.

As everyting in religion is all about faith and how much you trust your religious believe when it comes to christianity.



posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 09:01 AM
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For some reason I found myself wondering this a few years ago.

I ended up convincing myself, that it is indeed entirely possible, that he could have not really been dead yet when the Romans removed him from the cross.

Specifically I was thinking about the sort of injury that would occur from a nail through the wrist and ankle. Although it's truly horrible, since this is what the standard means of punishment was in the Roman days, the crucifiers probably were going about it in a routine fashion since it was their job. Quite likely (and perhaps from the pressures of the crowd) they removed him because he appeared to be dead, but really was in a state of catatonic hibernation.

The human body shuts down blood flow to the appendages when in serious cold or shock in order to preserve the operations of the inner organs.

I think it's quite possible that he in fact was NOT dead yet, and that he did "rise from the dead" at one point afterwards when the nail holes had had a little time to congeal. However, due to the severe loss of blood, he was not able to make it very far, and then really did die.



posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 09:21 AM
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Originally posted by helen670
Spamandham......


You are either a speed reader or didn't bother to read it. I'm guessing the latter. Why ask questions if you are unwilling to follow where they lead? Just go to church and leave the thinking to others.


Why would I want to go and read into a site that is LIES?
the Jesus never existed site.
No thank you.

And yes, I did read a little.....and then went to the home page and didn'y want to get lost!
IX
helen


How can you know it LIES (is that like the opposite of TRUTH™?) unless you investigate to see if there is merit to it? Whether someone existed from which Christian mythology formed can probably not be known, but we do know Nazareth didn't exist in the 1st century.



posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 09:28 AM
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Originally posted by darkelf
The OP has obviously heard the story of the ressurection of Jesus. He wanted to know what we thought of his theory.

Since his theory is based on the assumption of a historical Jesus, one must assume that this historical Jesus did exist in order to challenge or agree with the theory.


If he were simply analyzing the story I would agree, but he is obviously searching for truth and is willing to step outside the doctrinal box to find it. To pander to the false assumptions is a disservice. I suspect if he were a Muslim talking about whether Mohamed really preached to the Jinn, you would have no problem pointing out that Jinn are mythical creatures.

Jesus can't have risen from the dead if he is not historical, so addressing that point directly answers the question "Did Jesus even Rise From The Dead".



posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 09:39 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043
The point and research sould be in how cristianity has become so popular rather than proving if Jesus ever existed.


Why research what is already known? Christianity is what it is today because it was the official religion of the Roman Empire. Constantine is the father of Christianity.


Originally posted by marg6043
Historical the existance of Jesus the Man has been proven a littler bit easier to swallow than the existance of the divine christ.


There is no way to separate the two. All we have is the Bible, as there is no direct historical evidence of Jesus outside it. There is direct evidence of Christianity in the first century, but not of Jesus himself.

In the Bible, Jesus was from an ahistorical city, born in Bethlehem as the result of an ahistorical census, and performed mythical works that no-one recorded outside the circle of believers. Nonnne fo the New Testament writers knew him personally, but rather, were simply recording what had been passed down to them. Even Paul admits that he isn't sure whether his experience was a dream or not. The simplest conclusion is that he is a fictional character.


Originally posted by marg6043
As everyting in religion is all about faith and how much you trust your religious believe when it comes to christianity.


Faith is not a valid means of ascertaining the truth.



posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 09:54 AM
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spamandham

It is something you can never do when it comes to faith. . . and that is. . . trying to change the mind of the believer.

Is pleanty of threads on debates about the real Jesus and the divine christ but is not about how much prove you can give but how much faith the reader has.

You can bring your research and show your findings, debate them provide links and good logic.

But is all about the faith.

Don't underestimate what I know about religion, faith and historical facts, but again, is all about faith.


By the way I agree with your post.



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