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NEWS: Leaked Emails From Prosecuters Claim Guantanamo Trials Rigged

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posted on Aug, 1 2005 @ 06:06 PM
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Inmates as in what, intrepid.
I have no doubt that there are inmates there, along with enemy combatants and actual POWs.

This past ATS topic may have some bearing to this discussion:
Military Admits Gitmo Abuse, Lets Commander Skate





seekerof




posted on Aug, 1 2005 @ 06:08 PM
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I was refering to numbers. How many people are housed there?

I'm thinking of a thread, wondering if it's worth it.



posted on Aug, 1 2005 @ 06:09 PM
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subz


Can you refresh my memory some more because I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about here.

Just go thru your post history and you shall find.



So its not news because its not in the TV media? It was a story from the NY times and the ABC (Australian Broadcast Corp.). They arent exactly backwater, non-entities. There is definately a storm brewing with regards to Guantanamo Bay and this story is being made important on ATS because it actually is.

I'm not allowing it to dictate anything. Simply pointing out the obvious there, subz.






seekerof



posted on Aug, 1 2005 @ 06:11 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid
I was refering to numbers. How many people are housed there?

I'm thinking of a thread, wondering if it's worth it.


I think it's around 550 intrepid.



posted on Aug, 1 2005 @ 06:15 PM
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Originally posted by djohnsto77

Originally posted by intrepid
I was refering to numbers. How many people are housed there?

I'm thinking of a thread, wondering if it's worth it.


I think it's around 550 intrepid.


Thank you, it's worth it.



posted on Aug, 1 2005 @ 06:16 PM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
Just go thru your post history and you shall find.

I need your help here because I know I havent discussed the repatriation of Gitmo detainees. Especially not advocating that they remain in Gitmo, which you implied.

Also please look at these images Seekerof. Do they really fill you will nationalistic pride?





[edit on 1/8/05 by subz]



posted on Aug, 1 2005 @ 07:47 PM
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I'm am proud to be an American......at least in this current reality, because I can voice my objections to the blatant BS propagated in our medias and the, at times, ludicrous behaviour of our fellow citizens......but I'd rather expand that qualification and omit any reference to America and it's saturated ideal (in practice; in my opinion) and instead say that it's humanity that I ascribe to.....except when I see stories such as we have here.....then being human just makes me all the more confused.

At any rate......Seekerof......you posted earlier that ATS is blowing this story out of proportion.....that we here are attributing an absurd amount of information when compared to the time allotted in the mainstream media.....but haven't you personally stated in the past how biased some of our more mainstream medias display bias...or at least prone to it? And this bias you have referred to along with many others was regarding the Republican vs. Democratic partisan issues, right? One thing that is apparent, is that regardless of Republican and Democrat, the bias always leans towards the governement. Would it not be logical to assume that aforementioned medias would be prone to stay awtay from stories that cast our authorities in a bad light, until they have no choice?

Which is the best part of ATS in my opinion. We're biased as hell, but biased in all directions and the nature of anonymity and the brass holdings of our membership allows for us here to not shy away from the pieces of juicy contradiction that fall through the cracks.......intentional or not (that would be another thread..
)

Allow us to revisit a post from Mayet on the first page.....btw...Mayet...
....


Originally posted by Mayet
This ranked as one of the last news items on our national news tonight and was glossed over by the news readers. Even a silly story about "the water police", meaning people who go around fining people for using to much water washing cars made huge headlines and a much larger news segment.


Talk about bias.....let's highlight a form of bias that never gets mentioned, even round these parts.....localized customization of the news. The water police represents a news piece that was most likely pre-planned and given a spot to help the ebb and flow of the newscast to remain consistent.....to remain in the comfort zone of people who want the news, but want more of their routine. Status-Quo is a concept that applies here.......

So we have a news casting that is partially planned out ahead of time. Really impartial......I'm willing to give a lot of my attention to a news show that is primarily tasked with expressing an amiable nature...



Originally posted by MemoryShock
This story was buried just before the weather and a gov spokesman grinned and scoffed and said all is well.


An interesting indication has arisen that implicates the duality of our military and further suggests to the contrary with regards to their credibility these days and it is grinned at? So a story that has the potential to showcase evidence is argued on the air without evidence?

More interesting is the amount of people who are accepting of it.....in light of this, I have to say that we are not 'blowing this out of proportion'.....I'm almost really surprised at that point, Seekerof......there are a myriad of people who are so ingrained in their routine that this kind of illogical dressing to a potential problem is accepted......that is a real problem...


/i] Originally posted by Mayet
All is not well, as more and more stories like this are uncovered, more and more questions about right and might should be asked not only of ourselves and our own beliefs but of our leaders too, who we trust to do the right thing by the people.....


This is a story we, at ATS especially, should be paying very close attention to...........in case our leaders are guaging our apathy to their inconsistancies....



posted on Aug, 1 2005 @ 08:18 PM
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Subz

Those are very dangerous people being shipped to prison in a way that protects us and them. What would you suggest, Air Force One? Anyone of those poor dudes would gladly slit your throat for grins.

Get a grip.



posted on Aug, 1 2005 @ 08:29 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Subz

Those are very dangerous people being shipped to prison in a way that protects us and them. What would you suggest, Air Force One? Anyone of those poor dudes would gladly slit your throat for grins.

Get a grip.

Got any proof of that Grady? Just how many of these throat slitters have been charged and given a trial? Not bloody many.

The thing is Grady, you can talk till youre blue in the face about how evil these men are. But until its proven in a court of law, forgive me if I think you are wrong.

Remember the uproar over the treatment of captured American personell in Iraq? I remember it surrounded the airing of video showing them captured. Well now, who should get a grip?

Forgive me if I dont indulge in demonizing with no proof. That might be something that makes you sleep better at night, but not me.



posted on Aug, 1 2005 @ 08:30 PM
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I'm sure where subz lives dangerous criminals and prisoners of war are transported via Concorde sipping on fine wines and champagne while nibbling on lobster, filet mignon and foie gras.



posted on Aug, 1 2005 @ 08:36 PM
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Originally posted by djohnsto77
I'm sure where subz lives dangerous criminals and prisoners of war are transported via Concorde sipping on fine wines and champagne while nibbling on lobster, filet mignon and foie gras.

Ha, clever.

No we actually believe in guilty until proven innocent. We dont transport foreign nationals half way around the world to prison camps. Systematical tortue and abuse them. Lie about it. Hold them without trial for years on end. And then beat our chests at how we are spreading democracy around the globe.

And I still dont like my government! I really wish I was a jingoistic lemming, God it would make life easier.



posted on Aug, 1 2005 @ 09:09 PM
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Wait a minute...let's not start lobbing barbs here. Because if we do I'll point out that where subz lives they just jump three at a time on top of you and pump somewhere between 5 and 8 shots in the back of your head - thereby alleviating the need for transport, confinement, charges, trial or conviction.



posted on Aug, 1 2005 @ 09:24 PM
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Reminds me of that dude Baghdad Bob during the Iraqi War..the Iraqi minister for Propoganda

All is well, everything is fine...go on home, nothing is happening here.....


If these guys a really terrorists, then they deserve a fair trial and the public deserves to know the full facts of just why they are being imprisoned.

And yes they are really treally dangerous terrorists, because the government tells us so.

I triple guarentee you the trials will be fair



"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!"



posted on Aug, 1 2005 @ 11:09 PM
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Originally posted by subz
We dont transport foreign nationals half way around the world to prison camps. Systematical tortue and abuse them. Lie about it. Hold them without trial for years on end. And then beat our chests at how we are spreading democracy around the globe.


You make it sound like these guys were hapless tourist to beautiful, fun-filled Afghanistan kidnapped for the perverse edification of intelligence operatives.

If you want my opinion, subz, I think you've lost your perspective.

I just realized subz lives in Britain. Hmmmm.

[edit on 2005/8/1 by GradyPhilpott]


D

posted on Aug, 2 2005 @ 12:26 AM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
I dare you to show me a government with a better human rights record than America.


New Zealand. Most of Scandanavia.

Anyway my issue is less with the trial itself than the spineless attitude of the Australian Government. The British managed to pressure the US to give all British nationals back, but no, the Australian government, being the US lap-dogs that they've been for the last few years believe that everythings ok and that the whole thing will be fair. The only people who've had any balls over this issue has been Major Michael Mori, a USMC lawyer (thats right! An American military lawyer who sticks up for the rights of an Australian...isn't that what the Australian Government should be doing?) who's had more guts and spine than the whole Australian government in this issue. He's the only one who's spoken out against the whole thing on Hick's behalf.



posted on Aug, 2 2005 @ 12:45 AM
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Major Mori proves to me that military justice is fair. Here's a guy who goes up against his government, who signs his checks, by the way, to insure that his client, an accused terrorist trainer, gets a fair trial.

What do you think of that, subz. It's kind of a paradox, don't you think.

www.informationclearinghouse.info...

news.sbs.com.au...



It is interesting to note that Mori wears the Marine Corps Good Conduct Medal, an award issued only to enlisted men. His must be an interesting story.

[edit on 2005/8/2 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Aug, 2 2005 @ 12:58 AM
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Yes "D" you are right. I was pleasantly surprised to see him on Ten News yesterday coming out against the emails and in support of Hicks.

The latest bulletin is quoted and linked here to yet more spineless Australian government HooHaa.

Attorney General Ruddock brushes aside criticism of Guantanamo courts


The Federal Attorney-General Philip Ruddock says criticism of America's military justice system is based on historic rather than current concerns.

Australia's military bar head Captain Paul Willee has questioned whether Adelaide man David Hicks, who is being held in Guantanamo Bay, will get a fair trial when he faces terrorism charges.

Yesterday, the ABC obtained emails from two prosecutors with the US military commissions, saying the procedures are rigged and describing the cases being pursued as marginal.

The Pentagon has dismissed the claims.

Captain Willee says he has serious misgivings about the American military commissions and does not believe an internal investigation will resolve the situation.

www.abc.net.au...


But until people speak out publicly and denounce this Government's pure idiocy and failures to properly address the issues. Until people say out loud this is not right, nothing will happen. People are so conditioned now to be more scared of the terrorists and less questioning of a government out of control.

Who really wants the sale of Telstra for example.. Who really wants to sell off the country's asset to probable foreign private ownership? No-one really but Howard thinks he has a mandate given to him by the people and like in this case, the people are not standing up and saying No Way Little Johnny, we say no.

We say no to troops in iraq without fully knowledge of why we are involved
We say no to the US terror trials
We say no to the sale of Telstra...

Wait, i can't hear anyone, I guess everyones life is just too cushy to bother, geez why exit the comfort zone and risk all those material possessions for moral values. truth and justice?

Little Johnny is laughing, Now he can lie to us, and be found out and STILL get away with it and STILL continue his merry way. Now he has control of the senate so his and his party's words are really the rule.

How can Ruddock honestly dismiss these emails and claim that the trials are fair.

We have always guessed that some kinda bad things were happening at Gunatanamo, I mean we have read the transcripts of the few people who have lodged suit against thh US but up to now they were whispers, secret things only found on conspiracy boards. Heres the proof, heres high ranks saying YES ITS ALL RIGGED. Here's where you know your government is really treally lying to us. Her's where you should be questioning "the nations Best interests'

Little Johhny Howard Puppet Boy has got to be called out and answer to this honestly, not with the crap and brush offs. He should be admitting it was all lies, it is all rigged.

If he at least came out and said "its all rigged but it's in the nations best interests that is is rigged, we have to torture them to extract the info" i would have a grain more respect for the marionette. Not much and I would still be as cranky but at least I would be able to trust in his honesty. I would know I am being led by a strong leader who isn't afraid of the truth..but no I have a prime minister with no guts, no determination and a liar liar pants on fire.......


D

posted on Aug, 2 2005 @ 02:52 AM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Major Mori proves to me that military justice is fair. Here's a guy who goes up against his government, who signs his checks, by the way, to insure that his client, an accused terrorist trainer, gets a fair trial.



I don't believe the commission that has been set up is fair. I'm sure the internal US military justice system works great when it sorts out issues within the service, but this particular commission to try "enemy combatants" is just plain dodgy to me. Even Major Mori has outwardly stated the bias of the commission. Still, Major Michael Mori is a legend and you Americans should be proud that such honourable men serve you. Hell, I'd give him Australian citizenship if I could

Mayet, I agree with you completely. Another thing our Government has done time and time again is to divert our attention from these issues is to throw more crap at us. It worked with the children overboard affair and scaring the people with mortgage rates at the last federal election. I don't believe that they will last much longer. The immigration issues here have revealed the disgusting attitude the Australian Government has towards people within its own borders as well as its own citizens overseas in the case of David Hicks. Personally I'd be worried if I was overseas and got into trouble. The Howard Government will sacrifice its own citizens in the name of good foreign relations and trade. Look at Habib, Hicks and even Corby as well as the two Australian citizens senteced to death in Vietnam (bet most Australians haven't heard about that one) the Australian government has done bugger all in those cases.

Oh, and another thing, who the hell does Howard think he is trying to change industrial relations? The system right now works great and the workers of Australia have a very reasonable system of unfair dismissal protection and wage protection. The power's going to Little Johnny Howard's head.

And my final complaint. Phillip Ruddock. Heartless bastard, screwed up immigration hard and now he's screwing David Hicks over. He ought to be sacked.

The Australian people deserve better than this and it is time they realise that the Liberals have been in power too long and that it's time for a change. Bring on Bob Carr for PM.

Edit: Gradyphilpot, good work on going to the Australian SBS site for your sources. If you need truly non-biased Australian news go to them or the Australian ABC. Both of these media networks are government owned and it is these two stations that have repeatedly exposed Government lies and cover ups for decades.

[edit on 2/8/05 by D]



[edit on 2/8/05 by D]

[edit on 2/8/05 by D]


D

posted on Aug, 2 2005 @ 03:22 AM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott





He deserves the Australian of the Year award as far as I'm concerned




This guy, David Hicks' father Terry Hicks, who's stuck by his son through the entire ordeal and even making a documentary tracing his son's movement from Kosovo through to Pakistan and Afghanistan deserves the Father of the Year Award.

[edit on 2/8/05 by D]



posted on Aug, 2 2005 @ 03:54 AM
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In the United States of America, a woman placed the finger of a man of which she owed money to, into a bowl of chili. Her hopes were to sue a fast-food chain for millions of dollars.

In Afghanistan, a bounty was placed upon every terrorist you turned over to the United States government.

Only one of those cases have been examined by a court of law.



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