plastic morality

Originally posted by blue_sky_9
shesh! you guys make it sound as if they are in pain, which they are not! i dont know about other countries, but in britain we are suffering from a shortage of doctors, and i feel that the doctors that are improving peoples looks, not because they have accendent, but because the person wants it, can be better employed HEALING THE INJURED AND CURING THE SICK, which is what doctors should be doing.

That's well, and good, but it's a SEPERATE FIELD OF WORK, and if you think you can just tell people what to do with their lives, when they may not even be QUALIFIED to do other surgeries, to heal people, then your just being a dictator, the surgeons are people too, and have a right to choose a career path.

N SOME mental disorders do cause people serious mental anguish about their appearance, and sometimes surgery can help them get over that final wall of depression, to move back into their life....

Originally posted by QuestForSafety

Originally posted by blue_sky_9
shesh! you guys make it sound as if they are in pain, which they are not! i dont know about other countries, but in britain we are suffering from a shortage of doctors, and i feel that the doctors that are improving peoples looks, not because they have accendent, but because the person wants it, can be better employed HEALING THE INJURED AND CURING THE SICK, which is what doctors should be doing.

That's well, and good, but it's a SEPERATE FIELD OF WORK, and if you think you can just tell people what to do with their lives, when they may not even be QUALIFIED to do other surgeries, to heal people, then your just being a dictator, the surgeons are people too, and have a right to choose a career path.

ok. maybe i was a bit rash... *smiles guiltly*

N SOME mental disorders do cause people serious mental anguish about their appearance, and sometimes surgery can help them get over that final wall of depression, to move back into their life....

i am sorry but i have not time for rich middle-aged american women that look at themselves in the mirror and say "oh, look at my nose!"
or "iam fat..." my reaction to the later is go and get some exercise deariy, and then comment on how fat you are.

and depression is an illness, but when one has suffered from depression one relises that one needs to pull out of it. sometimes the only way to do that is facing the problem and overcoming it; not cutting it away.

A friend of mine complained of a sinus problem.....and had surgery to 'correct' it. She failed to mention it had changed her looks as well. The first time I saw her after the healing was over, I did not recognize her.....walked right past her! I only realized that was her after hearing her speak.

I suspect the original objective of the surgery was to change the shape of her nose, rather than the medical reason....but she has yet to say so. She apparently can't face the criticism of her 'cosmetic' reason for surgery no more than she could face the criticism that her face wasn't perfect. ( It was a shame, in my opinion....she had a pixish, cute face before, and a plain, straight, uninteresting face afterward. )

Also, as another 'side effect', it seemed to change her personality......and I don't think it was just me being uneasy around a 'stranger'....others mentioned it as well. Even after getting used to her new look, she seemed diff....cooler toward 'old friends', less kind to strangers, less forgiving of their 'mistakes'.

But I'm not against any of this type surgery, if the need is there...physical or mental. I have a young cousin who was born with a growing facial tumor. The doctors have done wonders for her! Her personality blossomed after her surgery, as it gave her the confidence to 'face the world', it improved her life in both respects.

Originally posted by frayed1
I have a young cousin who was born with a growing facial tumor. The doctors have done wonders for her! Her personality blossomed after her surgery, as it gave her the confidence to 'face the world', it improved her life in both respects.

nice to hear a success story

Apart from cases of disfigurment or injury I see it as self mutilation and as a symptom of our terrible, media-influenced lifestyles.

Being pretty is the way to get ahead in life and to be happy remember!

The masses get distracted by shallowness and insecurity which is fed into their miiinds.

Being bullied doesn't help either .

Originally posted by earthtone
Apart from cases of disfigurment or injury I see it as self mutilation and as a symptom of our terrible, media-influenced lifestyles.

Being pretty is the way to get ahead in life and to be happy remember!

The masses get distracted by shallowness and insecurity which is fed into their miiinds.

Being bullied doesn't help either .

are you a socilist by any chance? when you say the masses get distracted, do you mean by like the media?

Yes by the media. Childrens minds are raped at an early age by advertising everytime they watch TV conditioning them so the importance becomes consuming, shopping, gettting 'things' ....that how you find happiness nowadays.

How could women not be effected when wherever you turn be it the subway, the TV , the street, you see adverts telling you that you need to look as good as this air-brushed, anoxeric model to be happy. Self-esteem killer.

What gratification is there in life to just make money and buy things. Or buy a new face because your soul is trapped by shallowness, or insecurity steming from something..

For me life would have to be about personal achievments, not personal appearance. The last thing in life to worry about is shallow people judging you because you don't like every other sheep.

I'm for being yourself. if thats possible.

i have no problem with plastic surgeons.............well most of them........there are those that volunteer weeks of their time going to 3rd world countrys doing plastic surgery on children and adults that have some kind of need for cosmetic correction..........facial tumors,birth defects......etc....so don't slam plastic surgeons as a whole. also they work here in free clinics helping our own citizens.........

as others have said the body is their canvas...............and if someone needs work done then they are there to serve the need.

just as most everything else..............its a CHOICE..........if someone wants to have surgery............then that is their choice and their right.

angie

[edit on 15-8-2005 by amb1063]

I agree, Angie. It's their choice.

And I agree that marketing does a lot to foster it. After all, how many movies or tv shows depict younger, handsome, successful men who are eager to hook up with a 50-something woman? Is it any wonder that women who want a chance at having a good mate are killing themselves to look like those women in ads and on tv and the movies who always end up with the guy no matter how old/fat/unattractive he is?

Talking about choice. How many people who are influenced by the media towards doing these things have a choice not to be subdued by the shallow values that are premoted in the celebrity culture that exists today. Obsession with having a perfect appearance. There are people who are famous just because they have implanted huge amounts of cilicone inside their chests and parade around in skimpy clothes. Thats no role model.

In England school children in a poll noted that for Girls: jordon , the lady with huge breasts was their role model. and boys said David Beckham, brain dead football player pretty boy. This makes me despair. They are the most shallow #ers on the planet.

earthtone, what you say is so true. just a couple of things-if you were in charge, would you ban all advertising?

also, what would you do about celebs being all high and mighty?

I would love to ban advertising, at least advertising regarding certain types of harmful products. I mean could you imagine walking down the street and seeing a billboard that has a piture of a butterfly on it and simply says:

"You are a beautiful and unique individual. Conform only to the path and direction of you soul. Be free. Be alive"

I mean would it really be so bad to have some kind of positive message to replace the usual poison that is forced into our raped minds day in and day out?

YOU ARE UGLY - YOU NEED TO LOOK LIKE THIS
YOU ARE NOT COOL - SMOKE THIS BRAND
YOUR HOUSE IS NOT BIG ENOUGH - YOU NEED MONEY! MAKE IT BIGGER!
EXPAND! CONSUME! BE SHALLOW! ESCAPE!

Advertising causes unwanted need and insecurity. If people were influenced to focus on their innerselves, instead of posessions and appearance, then people would be happier, more content. In our society nothing is enough, people are bred to want more. In part it is human nature, but the masses are just filling in the holes with TV, video games, make up, etc. and arn't actually thinking anything. The thinking is done for them.

We are losing the next generation to the comforts that most people in the west have nowadays. Those that distract us from what alot of people here see is really going on on our planet. Technology and the government controlled media have created a matrix dreamworld now. People are led along like never before. The internet is a sanctuary......of sorts.

Everyone is too damn comfortable. Nobody would choose to resist those who destroy the Earth in our name over their beloved games console or favourite TV show would they ? Why? It's all far too entertaining. And as a bonus you get to be told what your desires are as well, just so you don't have to even think. Then you jusy stumble out the door and follow the brightly lit signs to the store where all the stuff you saw on TV is available, at a good price, under one roof. Thats all you need apparently, the stuff they sell, and a house, and some kids. (who, if they are born anytime now, are #ed by the way)

Ok, ok I better give this rant a rest now.

But as for celebrities, well, what can you do? They will always influence and fascinate people ragardless of who they really are. Not much you can do. However if society changes, then role models will be different.

You raise some good points Earthtone, and I don't think that anyone here would disagree with you. When you read between the lines in ads, all you see are shots taken at your security and confidence, and through fear and insecurity, the advertisers can manipulate people into thinking that they really need to buy this or that, or live this type of lifestyle. That's not going to change for a long time though, not until currency become obsolete, if that ever happens. As long as there's money to be made, people will manipulate others.

Bluesky, getting back to the main topic, I doubt we will ever have a 'plastic world' as you describe, and like some othes have already said, plastic surgery IS being used to heal as well as make people look 'better'. As this type of surgery becomes more accessible and disposible income increases, more people will do it, but I doubt it will ever get to the point where everyone transforms into a different person from plastic surgery. I know you didn't say this yourself, but that's what I picture in my mind when I hear the words 'plastic world'. Many of my friends have the money to get surgery to fix their imperfections but just don't choose to do it, so I believe that even if the procedures become so cheap that basically everyone can use them, not everybody will. But hey, if it's widely accepted to get plastic surgery and loses its female designation, who knows.....

[edit on 20-8-2005 by zhangmaster]

Originally posted by blue_sky_9
with all the plastic surgey going on, do you feel that we will become a plastic world? should these doctors be inproving peoples apperecnce because they flash some cash at them? shouldn`t they be actually be healing people?

what about if in the future we invent some sort of synthetic organs, lungs, hearts, bladders... brains? farfetched, yet we change and have things done on the inside all the time, however, when it's on the outside it's called vanity or immoral.

if a girl with a totally disfigured face wants to have an actual face, or a boy born without the middle part of his face needs plastic surgery to actually survive then that's usually consider o.k. yet, when someone just 'wants' plastic surgery rather than it being a 'need' it's usually thought of as immoral... and i'm not sure why.

people eat certain foods to stay healthy and look healthy, people go to the gym to look better and be healthy, people use creams to try and look healthy and younger, so why should plastic surgery be any different.

personally i believe people that think plastic surgery is a bad idea is either ugly themselves and unable to afford the surgery, hence are totally against it, or are already incredibly beautiful and are against it also.

i think every case is for the individual, much like an abortion. no one else should judge you or have the right to judge you for having an abortion, just as no one has that right to judge you if you have plastic surgery, basically because it's for every 'individual'.

just my thoughts...

Making organs isn't as farfetched as you think. It's definately a major medical goal in the near future, and scientists are already talking about the possibility of faxing somebody an organ using a 3D printer. Organs can already be faxed out of gelatin, it's only a matter of time before something like stem cells can be used.

Internal surgery is just taken differently because it doesn't affect what we can see. Changing the face changes our perception of the person, and changing something on the inside is always for a medical reason rather than a superficial one. This is a reason why people don't support external feature changing surgery but do internal surgery. I totally agree with you on those other points. It's the choice of the individual, and sometimes plastic surgery can make us healthier.

[edit on 20-8-2005 by zhangmaster]

hummm...

maybe plasic surgey is yet another bad point of our culture.

earthtone, if i had not already voted you for way above, i would vote for you again. we just need something nice instead of cola-cola and nike everywhere. i think i might get hold of some spray paint...