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NEWS: Senate Votes to Protect Gun Makers From Lawsuits

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posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 02:59 PM
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Originally posted by Astronomer68
Singling out one manufacturing group for special treatment would have been discriminatory and thus illegal under the Constitution and led to other groups suing to either be included in the group or suing to throw the law out for discrimination.


But, isn't that exactly what the Senate has done?




posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 03:11 PM
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Jamuhn - I haven't read the actual bill passed by the Senate yet and I know the language will be modified to some degree after the House passes their version of it and the two get together to iron out the differences. That may, indeed, be what the Senate has done. I'm not a lawyer so I'm not really the right person to answer your question. I would personally have preferred a bill that was not so specifically tied to the "gun" issue, one that prevented lawsuits against any group whose sole "offense" was manufacturing and selling a product that could be used by bad people for bad purposes. Again; however, I am not a lawyer.



posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 03:27 PM
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CX asks:


Just a thought whilst we are on the subject of guns over there in the US, could anyone here let me know roughly what the gun laws are in the US?


As our colleague astronomer mentioned, there are a plethora of gun laws here in the United States, and they vary by state (mine is Arizona), and they also fall into two broad categories: the laws involving buying and selling,and the laws involving carrying and displaying.

I will try to give you an overview of the common ones, as they pertain to the State of Arizona, one of the more free states with regards to the Second Amendment.

Buying a gun: If a gun is fully automatic (e.g., you hold the trigger down and a bunch of bullets come out) it is considered a "Class III" weapon. You as an individual can buy these guns, but you must buy a tax stamp for $500, undergo a background check, and agree to have the FBI ask you to show them the machine gun and your records at any time.

If your gun is not fully automatic, that is, if it self-loads and self-cocks but requires a separate trigger-squeeze to fire; or if it requires that you manually feed and cock the gun, or if it is single shot, it's all the same to the government. But if the gun is a rifle or a handgun, the rules are different. Handguns are a bit more difficult to buy as far as registration and background checks are concerned, but you can usually go into a gun store, wait a few minutes whily the dealer runs your identification to make sure you're not a felon, and walk out with your gun.

If you buy the gun from a private individual, there is no background check or no licensure involved at all, and you're free to buy any firearm you choose (as long as it's not a Class III weapon). I bought most of my firearms this way: see an ad in the paper, call the person up to make sure it's available, drive over, look at the gun, pay the guy cash, shake hands and walk away. No one knows any names (unless you choose to give them, of course) and no one keeps any records.

Under Arizona law, you can carry a handgun, as long as it is in plain sight, to any place except three: a polling place, a liquor store, and any business which posts no guns allowed. As a matter of record, almost all banks have signs asking you to leave your guns, and many restaurants have "No Firearms" signs posted. No problem, if they want me to leave my gun outside, it's their business.

When carrying a firearm in a car, the rules are a bit more arcane. You can have your handgun in plain sight (i.e., on the dashboard or on the seat) or you can have in locked in the trunk, but you can't have the gun hidden from view where you can get it in a hurry, such as under the seat or in the glove-compartment. Same with rifles, although it's a bit harder to conceal a rifle; they're usually carried ina gun-rack in plain view anyway.



posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 03:42 PM
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More on U.S. gun laws and the wide variety of state regulations.

In NM, they passed a concealed carry law a few years ago. Anyone without a criminal background can apply for, and recevie, a permit to carry a concealed handgun.

But then again, NM also permits cockfighting.

Ahh, gotta love NM lawmakers.



posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 04:07 PM
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Originally posted by Off_The_Street

If you buy the gun from a private individual, there is no background check or no licensure involved at all, and you're free to buy any firearm you choose (as long as it's not a Class III weapon). I bought most of my firearms this way: see an ad in the paper, call the person up to make sure it's available, drive over, look at the gun, pay the guy cash, shake hands and walk away. No one knows any names (unless you choose to give them, of course) and no one keeps any records.


I hate to do this because I know you're just trying to give CX a quick summary of gun laws, but the point above could land someone in jail under federal firearms requlations. Basically you have it right, but you may not sell a firearm to a minor (where the minor is to take possession of the gun) or to a felon or to a person convicted of certain misdemeanors having to do with spousal abuse and it is incumbent upon the seller to ascertain that the purchaser does not fall into any of the above categories. If the gun were to be used in the commission of a crime, traced back to a specific seller and it could be shown the seller knew, or had reasonable cause to suspect, the buyer was a proscribed purchaser, then the seller could be convicted under federal firearms regulations. Likewise, you could be convicted if the buyer told you he or she was going to use the gun in the commission of a crime.

[edit on 31-7-2005 by Astronomer68]

[edit on 31-7-2005 by Astronomer68]



posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 04:35 PM
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chemical laser says:


In NM, they passed a concealed carry law a few years ago. Anyone without a criminal background can apply for, and recevie, a permit to carry a concealed handgun.


Must states have concealed carry laws; the big difference is whether or not the authorities (perhaps the local sheriff) can, at his discretion, give you one (which means you don't get one) or whether they must issue you one if you can pass the requirements (such as Arizona and NM).

My wife, being an RN who worked late shifts sometimes as a travelling nurse, got a concealed carry permit. But that required her to register with the authorities, take a firearms safety course, and pass a background check, all of which may be construed as "infringement" on the right to keep and bear arms.

In any event, one of us may carry a pistol if we're out hiking, but it's open carry; and, outside of going to the range every couple of months (okay, maybe once every six months!), we don't otherwise carry guns around at all.



posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 04:48 PM
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I'm in total agreement with you concerning shall issue states versus may issue states. Likewise, I agree with your second comment about some of the carry provisions being infringements of constitutional rights. Personally, I prefer Vermont's gun laws.



posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 04:54 PM
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In any event, one of us may carry a pistol if we're out hiking, but it's open carry; and, outside of going to the range every couple of months (okay, maybe once every six months!), we don't otherwise carry guns around at all.


That may be the case for you. I, unfortunately, have to carry 5 days a week because of the area I work in. Our permit requirements are the same as you described. Including the local Police chief / Mayor having discretionary powers. This is what we call a "may issue" state as opposed to "shall issue".

For more iformation on American gun laws the best place to start is ATF
Another good place to look, however more concealed carry focused is Packing.org
And if you wanted to get into some of the deeper details regarding machine guns, silencers, short barreled shotguns and other "destructive devices" you could take a look at The National Firearms Act of 1934



posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 05:00 PM
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Isn't it amazing to think that prior to that act you could order a Thompson Sub-Machine Gun through the mail--and many did.

Bye the way Jamuhn, the latest ploy of the anti-gun groups is to attack ammunition. First they try to prohibit it and if that fails they try to tax it to death. Also, it almost seems like a conspiracy the way trial lawyers have gone after "hand loaded" ammunition--they all but brand you an intentional killer if you have it and use it for self-defense. This in spite of the long accepted fact that most hand loaded ammo is loaded to a lower degree of potency than factory ammo. Most people that load their own ammo do so nowdays because its so much cheaper than factory ammo. I hand load because I shoot a lot (upwards of 10,000 rounds per year) and I can load my own for something like 10-15 percent of the cost of factory ammo.

[edit on 31-7-2005 by Astronomer68]



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