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The "Gnostic" texts "heresy"? Old Testament God different then New Testament God? Roman church?.

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posted on Aug, 2 2005 @ 11:20 AM
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2000 years ago saw the dawning of the age of Pisces (the fish).


as i recall the/a symbolfor Pisces was fish(es) plural , 2 going in opposite
directions.




posted on Aug, 2 2005 @ 11:45 AM
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Originally posted by stalkingwolf
as i recall the/a symbolfor Pisces was fish(es) plural , 2 going in opposite
directions.


Indeed, the resemblence is remarkably similar to the tai-chi diagram:

compare:


with



Wow! That means all astrologers are actually decendants of Master Moy Lin-shin and Lao-Tzu! This changes everything.


[edit on 2-8-2005 by saint4God]



posted on Aug, 2 2005 @ 03:58 PM
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Spamand ham, again though i feel you are incorrect. It does not appear to me that all the gnostic chirtian sects beliefs orginated from sun whorship. a lot of them do not even believe that Jesus was God. they believe that he was a messenger that came to bring enlightenment and that his dying on the cross had nothing to do with him saving us in that way. A lot of the gnostics believe it was the knowledge that Jesus was trying to give people that would save them if they heeded the knowledge. i pointed out what some of that knowledge is suppossed to be (according to certain gnostics) in other posts on this thread. I don't see where any of it has naything to do with the sun or even originating from sun whorship at all.
We are not talking about Christians as most know them, we are talking about certain sects of "Gnostic" Christians.



posted on Aug, 2 2005 @ 04:26 PM
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Christianity and sun worship:

Astrotheology

Secret Chamber

The tie in to gnosticism:

Look about halfway down



posted on Aug, 2 2005 @ 04:57 PM
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i read it and see somethings you are talking about, but it clearly says in the article you linked to that the gnostics did NOT worship the sun, moon or venus as deities (Gods).



posted on Aug, 2 2005 @ 10:26 PM
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Originally posted by GREGNOW
i read it and see somethings you are talking about, but it clearly says in the article you linked to that the gnostics did NOT worship the sun, moon or venus as deities (Gods).


I thought I clarrified that already. To my knowledge, neither Christians no gnostics worship the sun, moon, that isn't the point. The point is that these religions grew out of sun worship. That is their root. If you are trying to choose which one is truer, the answer is they are both equally false.



posted on Aug, 2 2005 @ 11:00 PM
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Is the yoni symbol. Mothergoddess, right? It represents the female sex organ. This is where they seen life come from. correct if i`m wrong. Just like the two cupped hand in prayer, this also is the sigh of the Yoni symbol. also its in the cereal box of "Lucky Charms"



posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 11:37 AM
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Originally posted by Chasrac64
Just like the two cupped hand in prayer, this also is the sigh of the Yoni symbol.


"Praying with hands together is a posture with an origin that is virtually unknown. Most people, including members of the Jewish and Christian religions, do not know that the hands-in-prayer was a Jewish practice. It was done in the Jewish religion and still is in at least one annual orthodox ritual in some temples."
rexcurry.net...

Looks like Jewish tradition to me.


Originally posted by Chasrac64
also its in the cereal box of "Lucky Charms"



Help me out here please. Can you explain which "Lucky Charms" are what and what they mean?



posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 06:10 PM
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Gregnow,

I will try to explain the understanding I have come too. I certainly won't profess it to be correct. My background was 17 years in a christian pentacostal church. I have read the complete Nag Hammadi Library. I also study science and anything i can get my hands on. Just giving a brief background so you can tell where I'm coming from.

About the gnostic texts being heresay or not and how we can tell or not? I don't think there is a way to tell for sure. We could believe that the Nag Hammadi codecs were found buried and had been there since before 300AD. If we were to believe this then we could assume that the gnostic teachers of the time felt the need to bury the knowledge to protect it from the RCC.

I have asked for understanding of the All and have been given answers. I don't know if it's correct or if it's actual understanding. I probably won't know till I depart from this rock. Some people may have visions but that's still not absolute proof. My personal thought on that is that this realm is meant to be the realm of confusion. It's meant to see which side of existence we wish to align with.

Here is my understanding of the Three, for what it's worth. Father is the human soul as a whole. This human soul split itself into many billions of pieces in order to experience the physical realm. The Son, is each of these souls that realize what they are. Jesus was a Son. We are each Sons if we choose to be. The Holy Spirit is the All. The Father was a split from the Holy Spirit. But since the Holy Spirit is the All, there is no actual separation. It is merely illusion. However, All will not be One completely till the inbreath of God (aka Holy Spirit). It is my understanding that we have requested additional time in order to return back to the Center before the inbreath.

Anyway, I could go on with explanations. I could go through stuff like Gospel of Thomas and explain what I understand. But I'm not sure that's what you are looking for.

If you have any further specific questions, besides the original "how do we know?", then feel free to ask. My answer on that question, just to recap, is that we can't while in this realm of forgetfullness and confusion.

[edit on 8-3-2005 by ShadowHasNoSource]



posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 11:05 PM
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I thought I clarrified that already. To my knowledge, neither Christians no gnostics worship the sun, moon, that isn't the point. The point is that these religions grew out of sun worship. That is their root. If you are trying to choose which one is truer, the answer is they are both equally false.


Grew out of SUN WORSHIP?

what do you mean,' grew out of Sun Worship'?
Not S. Constantine again?
And how he was a Sun Worshipper?

Sunday worship in Church is not SUN-MOON Worship.
You mean SUN DAY?
because the correct day is called ...Kiriaki .....which means Lord's day in Greek.
This day being the EIGHTH DAY .....for the Old prophets awaited their Messiah...being also the day of Resurrectio in the New Testament.
ref....for the day of worship to be the first day or Eighth day.

"Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered Him." 1 Corinthians 16:2.

Acts 20:7
And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

Galatians 3:13-14
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Colossians 2:16
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days

Luke 24:1
But on the first day of the week, at early dawn

Matt. 28-2-7
Come, see the place where He lay. Then go quickly and tell His disciples that He has risen from the dead


Revelation 1:10
I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet...

And at the end of days of the Second Coming of Christ, which Judgement shall begin ,it will also be on a Sunday...PASCHA...well, Easter Sunday using the Julian Calander...




the Orthodox Church always celebrates the Resurrection of Christ after the Passover. From antiquity, the chosen people of the Jews celebrated the Passover in accordance with its lunar calendar, 30 a practice faithfully observed by the Lord Jesus Christ. The Word of God incarnate was a Jew, Who obeyed the requirements of the Old Testament, because He did not come to destroy the Law, but to fulfill it.
As the God-Man, Christ fulfilled what was lacking in the Law by offering Himself as a Sacrifice for the redemption of mankind from sin, death, and damnation, becoming thereby a New Passover—"the Sun of righteousness" —for all who believe in Him.
Thus, the Old Testament Pascha, on which the Jews commemorated their Exodus from Egypt, was replaced by the New Testament Pascha, on which Christians celebrate the deliverance of their souls from slavery to the noetic Egypt, that is, sin...


The Essence of the Church Calendar

more on calander issues about Pascha..



The Canon Law concerning the celebration of Easter is as follows: "If any bishop, or priest, or deacon, celebrates the Holy Day of Easter before the spring equinox or together with the Hebrews or before them, he is to be EXCOMMUNICATED from the Church" (Apostolic Canon No. 7).
A Council of the Church that met at Antioch reaffirmed in its first Canon this Canon of the Apostles. Therefore, Easter can't be celebrated earlier than The 21st of March or later than The 25th of May.
If our Easter coincides with the Hebrew Passover, we have to postpone Easter a few days or even a week.



So you're saying QUOTE/''To my knowledge, neither Christians no gnostics worship the sun, moon, that isn't the point. The point is that these religions grew out of sun worship''.

So if neither Christians nor Gnostics worshipped the sun or moon , how can they be 'born' from this ?

I dont get it?

IX
helen



posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 11:08 PM
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Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by Chasrac64
Just like the two cupped hand in prayer, this also is the sigh of the Yoni symbol.


"Praying with hands together is a posture with an origin that is virtually unknown. Most people, including members of the Jewish and Christian religions, do not know that the hands-in-prayer was a Jewish practice. It was done in the Jewish religion and still is in at least one annual orthodox ritual in some temples."
rexcurry.net...

Looks like Jewish tradition to me.


Originally posted by Chasrac64
also its in the cereal box of "Lucky Charms"



Help me out here please. Can you explain which "Lucky Charms" are what and what they mean?

Thats just what Ive came into through some of my researching. I myself thought the " Lucky charms" was very interesting.



posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 11:10 PM
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Them looks like a bowl of tricks...LOL



posted on Aug, 7 2005 @ 07:58 AM
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Originally posted by helen670
So if neither Christians nor Gnostics worshipped the sun or moon , how can they be 'born' from this ?


If I had said that Islam grew out of moon worship, would you have found that just as confusing?



posted on Aug, 8 2005 @ 08:12 AM
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spamandham...


If I had said that Islam grew out of moon worship, would you have found that just as confusing?


I don't quite get what you mean?
confusing as in how?
I dont understand what you're trying to say.



A Muslim will tell you that he/she worships Allah.......
A Jew will tell you that he/she worships God.....
And a Christian will tell you that he/she worships the Lord Jesus Christ who is God.
God created all things.
In the Old Testament ,God spoke to His Prophets with His WORD-LOGOS and that WORD became man.The Son of God who is Jesus Christ.

And that Word of God(Old Testament) is then revealed to man....through Jesus(Saviour) Christ(Annoint)
Father and Son are not two gods.
The Father is One God, the Son is that Word of God.......Father and Son are not two gods.
The Father is One God, the Son is that Word of God......Within the Mind of God there is the Word.......




God revealed to us concerning Himself that He is a bodiless and invisible spirit (John 4:24).

What does it mean that God has neither a body, nor bones, as we have, and does not have in Himself anything that makes up our visible world, and therefore we cannot see Him?

In order to explain this, let us take an example from our earthly world.
We do not see the air,
but we see its actions and results; the movement of the air has great power which can move huge ships and complex machines.
We feel and we know that we cannot live without the air that we breathe. So also we do not see God, but we see His activity and its results, His wisdom and power are everywhere in the world, and we feel them in ourselves.

The invisible God, out of love for us, at various times appeared to righteous people in a visible form — in images, or, reflections of Himself, that is to say, in such a form that they could behold Him.
Otherwise they would have perished from directly beholding His majesty and glory.

God said to Moses, There shall no man see Me, and live (Ex. 33:20).
If the sun blinds us with its brilliance, and we cannot look upon this creation of God lest we be blinded, then how much more so, on God Who created it. For God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all (1 John 1:5), and He dwells in unapproachable light (1 Tim. 6:16).


3. The Attributes of God


Concerning the Old Testament God and the New Testament God ......Is God the same as the Old and New?
Yes He is.....He was there from the beginning of Creation......






"By the Word of the Lord the Heavens were established, and all the might of them by the Spirit of His mouth" (Ps. 32:6).
Here "Word" means the Son of God, "Lord" means God the Father and "the Spirit (breath) of His mouth" means God the Holy Spirit. The Son of God, Jesus Christ, is plainly called "Word" in the Gospel: "In the beginning was the Word...and the Word was God...all things were made by Him, and without Him was not anything made that was made" (John 1:1-3).

It is especially important for us to know this,
because the creation of the world would have been impossible if there had not first been the voluntary will of the Son of God to endure the sacrifice of the Cross for the salvation of the world.
"All things were created by Him" (the Son of God) "and for Him: and He is before all things, and by Him all things consist: And He is the head of the body, the Church: Who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things He might have pre-eminence.
For it pleased the Father, that in Him should all fullness dwell; And, having made peace through the blood of His Cross, by Him to reconcile all things unto Himself; by Him,
whether they be things in earth or things in Heaven" (Col. 1:16-20).


2. Creation of the Earth, the Visible World.

IX
helen



posted on Aug, 8 2005 @ 09:13 AM
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Originally posted by helen670
I dont understand what you're trying to say.

A Muslim will tell you that he/she worships Allah.......
A Jew will tell you that he/she worships God.....
And a Christian will tell you that he/she worships the Lord Jesus Christ who is God.


But what is the history of each of these religions? They did not simply pop into existence in their current forms. If you can identify what they grew out of, then that is their root.



posted on Aug, 8 2005 @ 09:20 PM
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GREGNOW
Especially the part of the God of the Old Testament being a different and lesser God then the New Testament that Jesus called Father.
It does seem that the God of the Old Testament is a much more violent, jealous God then the ever loving "Father" God of the New Testament/Jesus.
Is it "heresy" like the Roman church exclaimed or could there be truth to the "Gnostic" texts?
I am hoping to get views from those of you on here that often comment on threads like this.

I cant really say a hole lot. But old testiment was of the old laws. Alot of people back then saw god (moses) and Knew power, knew that he was there working works on earth. So if they did something wrong, they are punish more badly.

Those in the new testiment follow god by faith, more than knowing he is alive. So he is likely to forgive. Mose right before he got to the holly land did something( i cant remember) that god did not want. What happen??? Moses die before he got to the holly land.

My point is this. The more you know that god is here, the more you do wrong, knowing this means harder punishment.
I just thought about this too. In the old testimwnt you had to kill Animals to get forgiven of you sins. How many people back then did not follow the old testiment, deserving god's puishments.




[edit on 8-8-2005 by slymattb]



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