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When do we get our Liberties back?

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posted on Jul, 30 2005 @ 10:17 AM
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Dallas, why is when people have no real argument back to someone that they attack that person's spelling as if it makes that person's points mean anything less? I could attack your sentence structure as well as it is incorrect as well as the fact that you spelled "worried" wrong. Maybe i misunderstood your speeling comment , but i am taking it as though it is towards me. Fact is i write fast and i am not concerned with having mistakes here and there with spelling.
On top of that, no one here is comlining about the future of their kids, they are complaining and cring about themselves and the supposed "liberties" they have lost as though it has changed their lives, which it has not.
We live in a world that is now more dngerous then before and only SMALL changes have been imposed to try and make things a little safer, like searching more bags, which most people complaining about on this thread has probably never even had their bags searched. and again, if they have, so what?
Also with the advances in technology in the internet and cell phones, their has to be new safety percausions, again so what? These are little things that are helping to make it harder for terrorists to do their thing so easily. None of the changes are affecting anyones liberities in a way that is changing their way of life or freedom.
As far as those on this thread who have kids, i bet most on this thread do not even have kids. Most are just crybabies sitting at their computer bitc#ing about things that do not even affect them.
If I had kids i would be worried about their future also, but not because there are more "bag searches" going on. I'd be more worried about them being blown up on the way to school or the possiblity of them being drafted for a military that is being misused by the current admistration. I am an ex-army sniper who spent a year in Korea and i would not want to be part of the military now under the current administration.
as far a s cell phones and internet, no one on this thread has ever had the gov't. knocking on their door to check up on them. If you are not up to anything illegal, they are not going to be knocking on your door.
Also if the London police were searching more bags before their attacks, the attacks may not have happened. Do any of you see how fast they stopped other possible attacks yesterday?

[edit on 30-7-2005 by GREGNOW]

[edit on 30-7-2005 by GREGNOW]




posted on Jul, 30 2005 @ 10:21 AM
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Originally posted by GREGNOW
also the gov't. can not just seize your land. It has to pay you for the land and there has to be a good reason that they need it. I have not heard of a mass of land seizing going on anywhere.
[edit on 30-7-2005 by GREGNOW]


Once again just because you have not heard about it, or because it has not happened to you does not mean that it is not happening.

In June 2005, the Supreme Court issued their decision in favor of New London, in a narrow 5-4 ruling—a decision that gives local governments wide latitude to decide when a seizure is for "public purposes," including economic development.


In other cases eminent domain has been used by communities to take control of planning and development. Such is the case of the Dudley Street Initiative [6], a community group in Boston which attained the right to eminent domain and have used it to reclaim vacant properties in the purpose of positive community development.

en.wikipedia.org...

Property owners of America, take heed – in a landmark split decision issued June 23, the Supreme Court ruled that the government has the power to transfer ownership of private property from one citizen to another, starting with the homes of Susette Kelo, Bill Von Winkle, and other citizens of New London, Connecticut



In a blistering dissent, Justice Sandra Day O'Conner accused the court of abandoning the long-held belief in a basic limitation on governmental power: "Under the banner of economic development, all private property is now vulnerable to being taken and transferred to another private citizen, so long as it is to be upgraded…in the process

www.legalzoom.com...

Thursday’s 5-4 SCOTUS ruling, says that if cities believe that a private developer can erect structures that will raise more tax revenues than citizen-owned homes and/or businesses, these homes and businesses can be condemned and confiscated by the cities.

mensnewsdaily.com...


Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.



posted on Jul, 30 2005 @ 10:27 AM
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Very well. Suggest the 'crybaby' stuff be placed on the back burner as it serves as a degrading means of insulting other people who express their point of view in their way.

Please keep in mind it's up to a moderator to intercede and not me. I'm only suggesting this subject would be better understood and accepted without insults (moderators feel free to interject).

And I apologize for the Spelling comment.

Dallas



posted on Jul, 30 2005 @ 10:27 AM
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Phoenix, you site that the Boston group claimed "vacant" land. They did not just go and claim land that someone was actually using or living on though. On top of that whoever owned that "vacant" land more then likely got a heaty sum of money for it. This is nothing new, it has happened for a long time before the law. Vacant land is often bought out by state gov't's. for economic reasons and the owners usually get a large sum worth more then they'd get from a private buyer. It happens in the 5 boroughs of NYC all the time.
The truth is that the gov't. is not just going around taking people's land that they are living on or using.
If that does start happening on a mass level, then people are going to be going to court about it on mass levels and something would be done.
Law or not, no state or fed. gov't. is going to have the power to just start taking peoples land over on mass levels.

[edit on 30-7-2005 by GREGNOW]



posted on Jul, 30 2005 @ 10:29 AM
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Originally posted by GREGNOW

We live in a world that is now more dngerous then before and only SMALL changes have been imposed to try and make things a little safer, like searching more bags, which most people complaining about on this thread has probably never even had their bags searched. and again, if they have, so what?
[edit on 30-7-2005 by GREGNOW]


I suggest you familiarize yourself with our constitution, and bill of rights.

As far as making you and your children safer I think Franklin said it best.

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety"

IMHO-You sir deserve neither.



posted on Jul, 30 2005 @ 10:29 AM
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Originally posted by GREGNOW

The truth is that the gov't. is not just going around taking people's land that they are living on or using.


I suggest you read ALL the links provided. Property can now be condemned at the city's will for "economic developent"

[edit on 30-7-2005 by phoenixhasrisin]



posted on Jul, 30 2005 @ 10:35 AM
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Dallas i love how you comment on my "insults" when you yourself are a hippocrite and insult my spelling, then try to cover yourself by apologizing, please already.
The fact is peopleare "crying" about things that do not even affect their way of life. No one on this thread has made a point on how they themselves have actually had any liberties taken from them that has affected their freedom or way of life. All it is is "crying" over things that are not even affecting their way of life.
Who here on this thread has had any liberties taken from them that has actually changed their way of life any different then it was 5, 10, or 15 years ago. The answer will be none.



posted on Jul, 30 2005 @ 10:41 AM
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Originally posted by GREGNOW
Who here on this thread has had any liberties taken from them that has actually changed their way of life any different then it was 5, 10, or 15 years ago. The answer will be none.


Due to the patriot act I was recently required to supply two forms of identification to purchase a cell phone. I only had one. I asked why two, and I was pointed to some small type on the application about identification verification, and the patriot act.

Minor yes, an inconvenience none the less. I was affected.

What did I do? I exercised my liberty and purchased a "top-up" phone that does not require identification. Simple isn't it? Want some more examples?



posted on Jul, 30 2005 @ 10:41 AM
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Pheonix, you can put all the links to the consitiution you want up. So what? What you are saying then is that the SMALL chance you actually have of having your bags searched may hinder the boldness of certain terrorists from carrying bombs onto mass transit to blow up you and your family, that they should not search bags as a stepped up percausion because it BARELY interfers with our consistution right. Get real.
First off no one here is even going to have their bags searched unless they are on a plane or mass transit (and even then they probably will not have their bags searched) and if they do, so what? It is sending a message to terrorist that they can not just walk onto mass transit without the possiblity of having their bomb bag searched.
As far as the land law, so what? People are not having their land taken away on mass levels or something. If that were to happen, there would mass outcry and it would be stopped.



posted on Jul, 30 2005 @ 10:48 AM
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Originally posted by boogyman
The blood of Patriots and Tyrants....

these are sad times we live in.


That is correct, according to the Founding Fathers.

Maximus, Remember Patrick Henry's famous speech? What did he lose to write and deliver that eloquent speech, and then back it up with his actions?
Patrick Henry saw a man being whipped in a town hall one day as he was riding through a town. He asked a townsman what was the crime thatthe man had commited. The reply was that the man had been caught preaching without first purchasing a permit. The next day, the man was beaten to death.

Why does one have to have personally lost something? Am I saying to go to guns at this time? What both boogyman and I am saying is that it will not get better, only much worse.



posted on Jul, 30 2005 @ 10:52 AM
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Originally posted by GREGNOW
Pheonix, you can put all the links to the consitiution you want up. So what?

Are you serious? Have you EVER even read the whole constitution?

What you are saying then is that the SMALL chance you actually have of having your bags searched may hinder the boldness of certain terrorists from carrying bombs onto mass transit to blow up you and your family, that they should not search bags as a stepped up percausion because it BARELY interfers with our consistution right. Get real.


What I am saying is: If someone want to blow something up, and is willing to end their life to accomplish such a goal, searching peoples bags at random is NOT going to deter them in any way shape or form. I suggest you take your own advice and "get real"

First off no one here is even going to have their bags searched unless they are on a plane or mass transit (and even then they probably will not have their bags searched) and if they do, so what? It is sending a message to terrorist that they can not just walk onto mass transit without the possiblity of having their bomb bag searched.


Who cares where they are. Our constitution protects us from unreasonable searches, and seizures. As for the rest of your paragraph please see above.


As far as the land law, so what? People are not having their land taken away on mass levels or something. If that were to happen, there would mass outcry and it would be stopped.


First it was'nt happening, now it isn't on a big scale. Just admit you are wrong, and I have proved it many ways. Besides, I do not think there is anything that will receive a "mass" outcry. There are too many people in the USA like you. Have you heard the story about the frog and the pot of water?

[edit on 30-7-2005 by phoenixhasrisin]



posted on Jul, 30 2005 @ 10:55 AM
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Phonix, your point on the cell phone is moot. First off a lot of companies ask for 2 types of I.D.'s for cell phones before the patroit act. Also in NYC BEFORE the attacks, you could not even open a bank account with out 2 forms of I.D.'s. It sucked for me as i only had one and then had to get another. There are a lot of things in life that suck but they are not taking away liberties that are really affecting anyone's way of life or freedom like people on this thread are trying to make it sound.
Even if needing 2 forms of id to get a cell phone has anything to do with the patriot act, so what? It is an effort to make things a LITTLE harder on terrorist, it is hardly something authorites are doing to make the average america's life have less freedom.
Your cell phone story is just a LITTLE thing and if you are trying to make it sound like something bigger then you are just crying.
What is YOUR and others here solution then? To do NOTHING to help prevent attacks that really WILL affect your way of life in America? If you all have the answers then stop crying and come up with a better solution. Thing is there is none.
I moved to NYC for a job. I worked it for 2 years and then lost it due to the 911 attacks. It turned my whole way of life upside down. My position still has never been filled again.
i am gald that the authorites are at least doing a LITTLE to try to stop future attacks. All of you then go a "cry" about the LITTLE things they are doing to try to prevent more attacks, yet if they did nothing, you'd all be crying about that. Especially if another attack happened on wall street that really WOULD affect your way of life here in America, not just those living in NYC.
Again, if the London police would have been searching more bags before their attacks, they may have orevented those attacks and the deaths of those people killed.
If our own authorites took heed to the intell. reports that a plane attack may be going down and they stepped up bag searches at airports, then maybe 911 would have prevented when they found the box cutters, etc.

[edit on 30-7-2005 by GREGNOW]



posted on Jul, 30 2005 @ 10:58 AM
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Phoenix, not all terrorists are suicide bombers. Were the attacks in London suicude bombs? Again , get real and stop crying about things that are only making it safer for you and your family and hardly interfering with your way of life. It's helping to maintain your way of life.



posted on Jul, 30 2005 @ 11:00 AM
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Originally posted by GREGNOW
If our own authorites took heed to the intell. reports that a plane attack may be going down and they stepped up bag searches at airports, then maybe 911 would have prevented when they found the box cutters, etc.


Maybe, maybe maybe.

My point on the cellphone is valid. I have had one for over five years, and recently lost it. When I originally purchased my cellphone I did not need two forms of ID. Now after the patriot act I do.We are not talking rocket surgery here, you said no one here has been affected. I am saying you are wrong, and I have been. I admitted it was minor, however that is not the only way I have been affected. Once again do you want more examples?

You have probably been affected and do not even realize it.



posted on Jul, 30 2005 @ 11:05 AM
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i never said no one has been affected. What i have said is that the changes that have been imposed in oreder to make it a LITTLE safer is hardly affecting peoples liberities in a way that has cahnged their way or life or freedom. It has'nt plain and simple. Crying about having your bags searched or needing 2 forms of id in an effort to make America a LITTLE safer (not much safer at that) is just crying.
So agin, the authories should do nothing and just wait and let terrorists bomb mass transit and kill you and your families or others? That's your and others here on this thread solution.

[edit on 30-7-2005 by GREGNOW]



posted on Jul, 30 2005 @ 11:10 AM
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Also, just to be clear again, i thing the Bush admistration sucks and is doing things that are plain wrong, like the way they are using the military. I do not think anything they are doing is wrong though when it comes to homeland security though, except that actually there is not enough being done.
Again our water ports are a maximum risk and are to easy to attack as well as a lot of our food supply. It is probably just a matter of time before they are hit. but again, the islamic fundamentalist do not view time the same way us Americans do. If they hit us now or 5 years from now does not matter to them as long as their plans are carried out right and they hit us one way or the other at one time or another.



posted on Jul, 30 2005 @ 11:10 AM
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Originally posted by GREGNOW
Phoenix, not all terrorists are suicide bombers. Were the attacks in London suicude bombs? Again , get real and stop crying about things that are only making it safer for you and your family and hardly interfering with your way of life. It's helping to maintain your way of life.


HAHAHAHa. You obviously have not read anything I have wrote. I have not cried about anything. Once again I do not believe that liberty can be taken away, it is you who believes that it can. Please read my first post.

You also do not know my way of life, so to suggest that wall street maintains my way of life is especially funny. Nothing that has happened in the past five years makes me any safer. If you feel that you are safer then good for you


I honestly hope that all of our recent laws, and behaviour (such as yours) are a portent, because people like you deserve everything that is coming.

"I am scared, please pass more laws for me, because I can not defend myself". Always someone there to protect you, huh.........sort of like a big brother.



posted on Jul, 30 2005 @ 11:18 AM
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The sad fact is that there are not enough percausions being taken in America. Before i was sent to Korea, i was at Fort Sam houston in TX. ANYONE could just drive onto that base and do WHATEVER they wanted. There was NO security and it it a army base with loads of army personel. Yet all 4 airforce bases in San antonio had security and checkpoints. That was in 1985-86 and even then i could not understand why there was no security as enough people hated then to do something.
the fact is we need a lot more security in a lot of places all around America and instead they are spending money on first tearing apart Iraq and now rebuilding it. There was an article in Time magazine about a mayor and police cheif that served in Iraq from their reserve units. They saw billions of dollars being spent over there but the soldier/mayer of his town could not even get the gov't. to give him 750,000 for a needed new water system for his town. It's pathetic and these are the real things people should be crying about that the Bush admistration is not doing.



posted on Jul, 30 2005 @ 11:25 AM
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Originally posted by GREGNOW
The sad fact is that there are not enough percausions being taken in America. Before i was sent to Korea, i was at Fort Sam houston in TX. ANYONE could just drive onto that base and do WHATEVER they wanted. There was NO security and it it a army base with loads of army personel.


So are you telling me that even when on an army base and surrounded by soldiers with automatic rifles, you still worry for your safety even back then? I am afraid that nothing will make you feel safe.

Not trying to be mean or anything.

, I do agree though that there are many issues that are also important. This is here at home though, and does affect us, which is why it should be of greater concern. IMHO

I am more concerned about the mentality of people who believe this is ok. I am more concerned about the people who feel their liberty is granted to them by their governent.

[edit on 30-7-2005 by phoenixhasrisin]



posted on Jul, 30 2005 @ 11:39 AM
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No, you are not reading what i write.
First off I don't need to know your way of life. If the financial district of NYC is hit , it will affect all american's way of life. Are you really that clueless?
Next, you must feel that your liberities can be taken away because you keep siting the consituiton and then even say you can't wait for them to pass more laws. so you are clearly showing that you feel your liberities are threatened.
Next, the fact is that you are a bit safer because of "big brother" . There have been many arrests because of the stepped up security and laws. If those arrests were not made then those people could just be free to carry out more attacks on you. We live in a more dangerous world and certain things need to be done now to help make things a little safer.
Your solution is to do nothing and just let them come over and bomb at will? All because you don't want to have to get 2 forms of id for a cell phone or possibly have your bags searched.
No recent laws that have been passed are really affecting anyones freedom or way of life. They are very little laws that are being made in an effort to make things a LITTLE safer.
If they declare martial law or make a law that actually makes it so you can not do something that you used to do in your life, then feel free to start crying. But, right now that has not even happened. Again your brilliant solution would be to do nothing.
Perhaps the Britsh police should not search bags at all so terrorist know they can repeat it as many times as they want. Yea, that's brilliant.
Even as far as the land law that you and others may cry about. First off how many average citizens like yourself actually own enough land or any prime location land that the gov't would even want? Most on this thread probably do not even own any land. The fact is that the average American and American family is up to thier eyeballs in debt and lucky if they can even own their own home and are not paying on it.
again, all i hear is crying over nothing that is not affecting anyones way of life.
And again if the financial district gets hit, it will affect all Americas way of life no matter where you live.

[edit on 30-7-2005 by GREGNOW]




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