NASA Hoax

nataylor, you also prove my point. Cellphone signals come from towers that are positioned everywhere, high atop buildings. The signal is transmited from one tower to the next, nothing magical about that.

Sending a signal to the moon cannot be done with exsisting technology, nor will it ever be done in our lifetime. NASA really tests the gullibility of people by telling us they can send probes to Mars, forget it, there is no way to send a signal that far.

They can not get the (alledged) problems solved with the shuttle, why would I beleive that they could send a probe to Mars without having any problems ? They can't, but there is no way you or I can prove it.

Don't be Decieved

[edit on 20-8-2005 by Lastday Prophet]

Originally posted by jra
NASA uses large dishes all around the globe. There is one in Australia I know for sure.

Yep, the Parks Dish was used to relay the footage of Apollo 11 to America.

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
nataylor, you also prove my point. Cellphone signals come from towers that are positioned everywhere, high atop buildings. The signal is transmited from one tower to the next, nothing magical about that.

Sending a signal to the moon cannot be done with exsisting technology, nor will it ever be done in our lifetime. NASA really tests the gullibility of people by telling us they can send probes to Mars, forget it, there is no way to send a signal that far.

They can not get the (alledged) problems solved with the shuttle, why would I beleive that they could send a probe to Mars without having any problems ? They can't, but there is no way you or I can prove it.

Don't be Decieved

[edit on 20-8-2005 by Lastday Prophet]

Please don't use anything I say to prove your point. Cell towers do not transmit from one to the other. Each tower communicates with many (possibly hundreds) of little milliwatt omnidirectional broadcasting cell phones at any given time, and then interact with the phone system via wire.

As for no one being able to "prove" tht you can send a signal to Mars, that's just crazy. A basic understanding of physics and electrical engineering tells you it's very easy. Do you have any understanding of the physics of how radio-frequency transmission works? It doesn't matter how weak your original signal is. If you've got a big enough "ear" to pick it up, you can.

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
CAT, you really amuse me with your misquided attempts to prove you could send a signal to the moon. What you did not enter into your equation is that the "MOON" revolves just like the earth does, and there is no way to keep an alignment.

The same side of the Moon faces the Earth because it's orbit period is 27.322 days (27 days 8 hours) and it's rotation is 27.322 days. NASA could not communicate with the Apollo astronauts when orbiting behind the moon (they lost signal for 10-15 minutes when they orbited behind the moon in the Command Module). It's very simple to target a signal at such a distance, the "footprint" of a signal grows in area over distance (and decreases in strength).

For the astronauts to broadcast to the Earth and receive signals from Earth they used a highgain antenna -- apollo 12 and 14 also used an 8 foot high gain S band antenna which they deployed after landing to improve signal and to increase bandwidth (this is why the TV signals from missions following Apollo 11 were such better quality).

Firstly there are not enough uplinks/downlinks on the earth to stay within a footprint, and second how do you address the fact that there are no uplinks on the moon, even if there were one, how could you send/recieve from it while the transmission station located on the moon is not facing the earth ? Nice try but you are quite wrong and there are no satellites in orbit around the moon, so that blows a gaping hole into your misquided theory.

You're just being silly, or intentionally obtuse. Of course there was an uplink on the moon, the Apollo's Luner Landers had both transmitters and supplimental 8 foot S band dish antenna. The transmitting station on the Moon (carried on all Lunar Landers) would always be facing the Earth, the moon does not revolve to turn one side away from the earth -- the Moon's orbit period matches it's rotation period so the same side always faces the Earth.

Phases of the moon, over 27 days 8 hours -- the Apollo missions were on the Moon during the phases when their landing sites were lit by the Sun, and were always facing the Earth. NASA intentionally choose to land on the Moon during times when their landing areas would be lit by the Sun.

The Earth had multiple receiving (and transmitting) stations in use specifically for the Apollo missions. These gound stations were linked via ground lines and via satellites. (The vast majority of signals between ground stations during the Apollo missions used ground lines to communicate between them.) The "ground" stations also included multiple sea going vessals to cover locations where dish facilities did not exist.

Your own words betray you, if you need a high power transmission station on the earth, you would need the same on the moon to send the signal back. You need the same equipment on the moon to send/recieve a signal as you do on the earth unless you really want to make yourself look stupid by saying that one is not necessary on the moon, while it is necessary on the earth.

NONSENSE. With a highgain receiving antenna you do not need a high power transmitter. One end can be both a weak signal and weak receiver if the other end is a high gain reciever and high power transmitter. The Apollo missions had highgain antenna and the Earth had huge dish antenna and antenna arrays.

Where is the transmission station located on the moon?

Every Apollo mission carried their own transmitter, and 8 foot S band receiver/transmitter. Only Apollo 11 did not deploy the 8 foot dish for their initial landing (because the signal received on Earth was adequate enough for their first lunar landing).

Armstrong - "We wanted to make sure the picture was adequate so that we didn't have to take the time to unpack that (S-band) antenna and unfold it. It was pretty good size. I'd say it's maybe eight feet across."

This was the S-Band antenna that was deployed on 12 and 14. On Apollo 11, it was stowed in LM Quad I to the right of the ladder. Bill Wood writes, "The plan was to only ask for deployment of the erectable S-band antenna if the signal through the LM high-gain antenna was not good enough. The decision to carry the dish was made several months before the mission when there was concern that it might not be possible to handle the EVA through the Goldstone DSS-14 antenna due to a conflict with an on-going DSN mission. However, that proved not to be a limitation. Of course, if the EVA occurred over Spain or if either DSS-14 nor Parkes was available, the erectable dish would have been used. Neil Armstrong was aware of this and made a point to check the received TV quality so he would know whether or not he would need to unstow the dish."

Answer, there is none, and therefore there is no way to send a signal.

Your graphics were cute, but they only serve to further my point.

Could you do one for me ? you can use the first one, the only thing I want you to add is a yellow dot (you know, the earth station) and put it on the right side of the moon and again explain your theory.

ROTFL

You shouldn't be the one laughing here LP, you're 100% wrong as usual and comicially so (we're laughing at you actually). The Apollo missions were NEVER on the far side of the Moon. They were ALWAYS on the near side of the Moon during their lunar landings. When the Apollo crafts orbited the Moon they did indeed lose signal to Earth and this is evident in hundreds of publications and in dozens upon dozens of moon-earth transmissions from these missions.

The transmissions from the moon landings were not narrow focused to target a tiny point on Earth, they broadcast to the entire width (and then some) of the Earth -- that is why recievers in Australia could pick up the signal and so could receivers in Hawaii and on ships in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. Generally, the "footprint" of the Apollo signals were larger than the width of the planet Earth.

I think you seriously don't understand how the Moon's orbit around the Earth works or how it works in relation ot the orbit of the Earth around the Sun. Here is a nice educational page for you (it's written on a grade 7 level so I'm sure even you will be able to understand it).

we have been bouncing raido signals off the moon for over 50 years.
stardate.org...

en.wikipedia.org...


"Moonbounce" web sites

www.af9y.com...

searchnetworking.techtarget.com...

Or just f'n google it

Howard, I already posted moonbounce websites for LP to go read. His reponse was that the idea of moonbounce was "laughable" and "impossible"... funny how hundreds of amature radio enthusiasts do just that all year long (bounce signals off the Moon).

But then trying to get a guy a guy who insists that there are no satellites past 300 miles -- because radio signals can't possibly travel that far -- to go read anything regarding moonbounce or radio telescopes is somewhat futile.

Howard, your links prove nothing. They offer no proof whatsoever all they do is suggest that the beams are bounced off the moon. Their suggestions are not proof in my opinion, I could tell you I bounce signals off of Jupiter, how could you prove me wrong ?

Also, I do not trust information on sites that have the "All Seeing Eye" as it's logo.

Cat For the astronauts to broadcast to the Earth and receive signals from Earth they used a highgain antenna -- apollo 12 and 14 also used an 8 foot high gain S band antenna which they deployed after landing to improve signal and to increase bandwidth (this is why the TV signals from missions following Apollo 11 were such better quality).

What A Joke You need a 200 ft. high gain antenna on the earth, but only a 8 (EIGHT) foot one on the earth, this is really becoming laughable, to suggest something as absurd as that is unbeleivable.

I have a few bridges to sell you, got a real good deal on the George Washington.


And there is more to an uplink than an "Antenna" Do some homework, why do you think it's called an "Earth Station" ? there are many components to a earth station.


[edit on 22-8-2005 by Lastday Prophet]

"intentionally obtuse"


thats gonna leave a mark

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
Howard, your links prove nothing. They offer no proof whatsoever all they do is suggest that the beams are bounced off the moon. Their suggestions are not proof in my opinion, I could tell you I bounce signals off of Jupiter, how could you prove me wrong ?

And when have you ever posted something that wasn't just an opinion or a suggestion. You have yet to offer any kind of proof. You rarely even try to counter things that we've debunked.

I don't get why you don't believe one can bounce signals off the Moon. You know what light is right? It's electromagnetic radiation, just like what radio waves are. Light can reflect (bounce) and so can radiowaves, because it's the same thing. But we can only visually see a small portion of it (from Red to Violet). Once you get beyond Red, it goes into infrared. There is Near infrared, Mid-infrared and Far infrared. After that you start getting into Microwaves and then into the Radiowaves. The same goes for Violet. Once you go past that you get into Near Ultraviolet, then Extreme ultraviolet, Soft X-rays, Hard X-rays and then Gamma Rays

It's all apart of the same spectrum. So if you don't believe that radiowaves can bounce off the moon, then I assume you don't believe that the visible light from the Sun bounces off the Moon too? Or that the light bulbs in your house don't bounce off the walls and the floor, illuminating the room? Is that all a lie by NASA and other scientists then too? The light from this little red LED i'm playing with right now seems to be reflecting off the surface of my desk as I type.

Also, I do not trust information on sites that have the "All Seeing Eye" as it's logo.

heh... wow, just because one site has a logo that sort of looks like an eye. It must be the evil "all seeing eye"! Give me a break, that has to be the lamest excuse ever.

I'm still waiting to hear about how we got such great pictures from Saturn, Jupiter and Neptune from Voyager if we couldn't have sent a probe that far and received a radio signal from it.

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet


What A Joke You need a 200 ft. high gain antenna on the earth, but only a 8 (EIGHT) foot one on the earth, this is really becoming laughable, to suggest something as absurd as that is unbeleivable.

And there is more to an uplink than an "Antenna" Do some homework, why do you think it's called an "Earth Station" ? there are many components to a earth station.

Not that unbelievable.

The antenna on Earth sends a broad powerful signal to the Moon, where it's easily picked up. The antenna on the moon sends a smaller, weaker signal - and the gigantic satellite dish back on Earth can easily pick it up.

Here's an analogy. There's two people. One who talks very loudly and has excellent hearing. The other one speaks softly, and is a bit deaf.

When the loud person communicates to the slightly deaf person, he can hear although his hearing is poor - because the first person speaks so loudly, anyone in a five kilometre radius can hear his shouting.

Now when the slightly deaf person talks, hardly anyone can hear him - except for the loud person with excellent hearing. His excellent hearing enables him to easily pick up what the quieter person is saying without a hitch.

The loud person is the Earth, and the quiet person is the Moon.


Also, if the lunar module requiring a 2.4 metre antenna is unable to send a signal that the huge reciever on Earth can pick up, how can people operating HAM radios communicate with each other?

More importantly, how did we intercept the signals sent back to us from Voyager 1 and 2, and various other satellites, and such a notion is ridiculous?

Unless you're willing to say everyone in the entire world that works in a business that requires satellites is in on this conspiracy - I fail to see what's so unbelievable.

Can you please explain, with a reference to an online source so I can see for myself?

Why would we goto the moon again? Nothing has changed. And it's too expensive to just "check out".

Also;

If you noticed, Space is slowly being privatised. You can win a trip into space on a pepsi can, Virgin now offers space tours or something. When Private buisness can manage something like that, you know we're pretty advanced. Makes me feel nice. Knowing I can goto space in 30 years as a vacation .

Going to the moon is too exspensive, What A Joke
Nasa has always spent whatever they felt like spending, they never asked the shepeople if they felt it was worthwhile, which by the way is not worth wasting money on considering the constant failures of the space program.

Please post a picture of the earth station on the moon!

At first you guys said that satellite signals were "Endless"
After I shot that down by pointing out that they needed massive dishs to recieve a signal, you now try to convince yourselves that a 8 foot dish is of capable of recieving and transmiting signals from the moon.

If you truly beleive that you have been duped.
Like I said, I have a few bridges for sale "Cheap"

Call me at U-hav-ben-deceived (666-333-1313)

[edit on 23-8-2005 by Lastday Prophet]

You've proven something? I have yet to see anything but "I know" or "I did" and not one shred of evidence other than what you SAY where others have shown tons of evidence to support what they are saying.

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
Going to the moon is too exspensive, What A Joke
Nasa has always spent whatever they felt like spending, they never asked the shepeople if they felt it was worthwhile, which by the way is not worth wasting money on considering the constant failures of the space program.

Last time I heard, you can't spend what you don't have.

Please post a picture of the earth station on the moon!

At first you guys said that satellite signals were "Endless"
After I shot that down by pointing out that they needed massive dishs to recieve a signal, you now try to convince yourselves that a 8 foot dish is of capable of recieving and transmiting signals from the moon.

[edit on 23-8-2005 by Lastday Prophet]

You did look at my analogy, didn't you?

I'm also confused by your last paragraph. Where did anyone say you need a 2.4 metre dish to recieve and transmit signals from the moon? That goes against my analogy.

I said the Earth is the loudmouth good listener, and the Moon is the quiet deaf dude. The analogy fits perfectly, please look at it.

Where did you "shoot" down that radio signals aren't endless? Please link me to see for myself.

I'd also like to know, according to you; how far can radio waves travel, if they're not endless? Because Voyager 1 and 2 are still transmitting to Earth.

Furthermore, radio waves are endless. Radio waves are electromagnetic waves. Light is an electromagnetic wave. Light is endless. That's how we see distant stars.

Therefore radio waves are endless. Pray tell, what can stop radio waves? Electromagnetic wave, travelling along at the speed of light in a vaccuum... Not hitting any matter... Constant velocity... No forces acting on it... Yep, there's absolutely no way a radio wave could be "stopped" unless something like a planet gets in the way.

Which is what happened when one of the Apollo missions went around the far side of the moon.

You still haven't answered my HAM radio question.

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
Going to the moon is too exspensive, What A Joke
Nasa has always spent whatever they felt like spending, they never asked the shepeople if they felt it was worthwhile, which by the way is not worth wasting money on considering the constant failures of the space program.

Yeah it was expencive, but they did it. Perhaps you shouldn't blame NASA, but the US Gov't insted. They were the ones that gave NASA the money. Perhaps you should get more politically involved if you really care how your tax dollars are being spent.

What "constant" failures are we talking about? There will always be accidents when developing new technologies. But we learn from our mistakes and make things better. That's how manned flight was developed. Lots of failures in the begining, but we eventually got off the ground.

"shepeople"? You mean women?

Please post a picture of the earth station on the moon!

Well firstly it wouldn't be an earth station if it were on the moon right? Secondly, if your talking about something being the equivalent on the moon. Then I will repeat it for the 100th time. There is none. Have you not read what others have said at all?

At first you guys said that satellite signals were "Endless"
After I shot that down by pointing out that they needed massive dishs to recieve a signal, you now try to convince yourselves that a 8 foot dish is of capable of recieving and transmiting signals from the moon.

You shot what now? You haven't shown anything other then you like to say lots of junk without having any supporting information. Please SHOW me that one can't send and receive signals back and forth to the moon. I don't need to know or care that you installed tv dishes 20 years ago and that it some how makes you more of an expert than any other scientist anywhere in the world.

You keep saying we need massive dishes to send signals, but the rest of us keep showing you we don't. All you do is deny it. You don't show why or explain why.

Did you read what I wrote about the electromagnetic radiation? What do you have to say about that? It really seems like you ignore a lot of what we say. I'd really like to know what you think about this electromagnetic radiation and if you think it's endless or not.

What about my analogy on page 10 or Xar Ke Zeth's? Did you read them? What's your opinion on those? If they are incorrect, i'd like to you to explain why.

[edit on 23-8-2005 by jra]

We need to come up with a new category besides "way above Top Secret" for LDP.

How about "Most Entertaining Loonie."




























yes, the pun was intentional

Best pun ever.

Since I can't seem to edit my second last post, I should expand by what I mean by my HAM radio question.

How can HAM radio operators communicate with each other, without the aid of a transmission station? Surely they don't have huge antennas in their backyard?

And since HAM radio operators can communicate with each other with radio waves without a huge antenna, what's to stop the 2.8 metre antenna that was on the moon communicating with a tremendous satellite easily capable to pick up it's transmissions?

Since radio waves are endless, distance isn't a factor, so please don't bring that into it - except for the couple of seconds delay.

Howard, watch the name calling.

I will leave it at this, it is fruitless to try to convince you guys that they never went to the moon, you are not going to change your opinion and neither am I.

Believe what you will, I don't believe it and never will.
I am done with this, it's a total wasted effort. LDP OUT!

Agree to disagree.

Except in this case it's more comical, because beiliving we didn't goto the moon is like, belieiving Paul McCartney is dead...

Okay, so answer this. How did we get moon rock? We know it's not from earth since there's nothing like it on the whole planet.