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Islam Religion of Peace not the distruction

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posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 12:41 PM
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The thing is, it is very difficult to find a commited, dedicated, worldwide following of Christians or Jews plotting to, and successfully blowing up innocent men women and children in dozens of countries...with the express purpose of killing all non-Christians, all in the name of God.

If an islamic terrorist wishes to meet Allah, I will happily help him on his way.

Us "Righties" want peace as much, or perhaps MORE, than the leftists. In that, we are willing to be active in that purpose, rather than wring our hands and wish others would do something about it.

The original transposition of the Hebrew, reads: "Though Shalt Not MURDER". Which is vastly different from "kill". God allows killing, to eat, obtain clothing, and to strike down thine enemies of God. But murder is taking of human life with imalice. You can kill in self defense, with Gods blessing. But you cannot kill someone for reasons contrary to biblical teachings, that would be murder.

By wiping out as many islamic terrorists as possible, we are killing in self defense. The terrorists killing innocent men, women and children in the name of Allah.........is murder.




posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 02:10 PM
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Army, God love ya. I just want to make sure I understand your point.

Are you saying that killing innocent men, women and children in the name of ‘freedom’ isn’t murder, but killing innocent men, women and children in the name of ‘Allah’ is?



posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 02:34 PM
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Benevolent Heretic

not to be rude but he just said it was murder killing innocent.

[edit on 31-7-2005 by namehere]

[edit on 31-7-2005 by namehere]



posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 04:25 PM
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Originally posted by Peace20051. Quraan never teaches you killing and destruction.

2. Let’s go back to history and see how the Holy Prophet was made migrate to Madina and how he dealt with his enemies when he overcame on the them. There was not a single drop of blood wasted In this great victory.



1. and 2. But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

1.Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

2. right...raping and plundering and forcibly converting all pagans and jews and conquering all of arabia is so peaceful.....mmhmm.

explain these two verses.

ps: the quran sure calls christians liars pretty often, even so far as instructing muslims not to take them as friends and even saying christians will go to hellll, did mohommad have a grudge against christians or something?



posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 05:18 PM
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Originally posted by namehere
ps: the quran sure calls christians liars pretty often, even so far as instructing muslims not to take them as friends and even saying christians will go to hellll, did mohommad have a grudge against christians or something?


And what exactly is your point? Were you raised a Muslim? Do you really know the religion? Or are you just grabbing verses out of context and putting them out here as if it's proof of something?

Because I could find a bunch of violent and scary stuff in the bible that, when taken out of context, might sound like Christianity is a pretty brutal religion.

If I remember correctly, the Bible says that the only way into heaven is through Jesus Christ and everyone else gets to go to hell. What's the difference? Did Jesus have a grudge against all other religions or something?



posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 06:06 PM
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out of context? it specifies christians, it repeats many times, its not out of context at all, i dont need to "know" islam, its easy to read and see what it says.
what the bible says is not the point, the quran says what i told you.

[edit on 31-7-2005 by namehere]



posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 07:22 PM
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Terrorism is spawned from socio-political unrest; economic hardship, and other such variables that impedes one ability to galvanize ones resourses in a fashion which fully supports his needs. Religious ethos is just one distraction for the infinite finitudes of life, and said religious ethos is completely pertaining to the time frame which begate it, fair to say the socio-economic and political atmosphere of said time; universality is found in mundane gestures of morality. As to why people believe that Islam begate terrorism is completely found in thier own ignorance and externalities that further propogate this mentality; lack of education and conflicting cultures/religions is usualy the suspect. While I belive Islam not to be the fundamental factor in current acts of terrorism, I do believe it to be the agressive behaviour of Western ideology, and fair to say, the xenophobia of Middle Easternerns themselves, but more importantly, a complete lack of consideration on both parts.

Though I'am gratefull that this member exounded his bias in regards, quite simply, it is nothing more than such; Islam may have sectors of tolerence, but in totality, it is still a faith whose various addedums prescribe abusive behaviour, and these have become standard codex's for Islamic teachings, that is to say, in certain sects;but as was stated before, they were still precribed to a certain period of time now long gone. A new scripture has arisen from the Middle East, not one inspired from religious transcendence, but from economic suffering, and this scripture is universal to us all for we all suffer from the same hardships Middle Easterners have; resourses of our land allocated to oligarchy; spurious leaders with thier own agendas pushing buttons in advancments for thier own good; and a highly ethnocentric society.

Luxifero.



posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 07:32 PM
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I think Islam is GREAT religion, teaches its followers how to live right.
Im a christian and I do have a muslim friend. I like the guy, he's from Bosnia but left because of the war. Fun person to talk to
btw Great Thread



posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 07:40 PM
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I had the unique pleasure of meeting Yvonne Ridley recently.


news.bbc.co.uk...
www.muslimuzbekistan.com...
news.bbc.co.uk...


Most poignant amongst her stories that she recounts on her current speaking tour is the courtesy and respect with which she was treated as a prisoner if Afghanistan as the bombing broke out.

She concluded, on that, that she was thankful to be a captive of the most "evil and ruthless" regime in the world, the Taliban, rather than being imprisoned in Guantanamo Bay or Abu Ghraib by the American miltary.



posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 08:19 PM
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namehere, it seems that your point is to prove that Islam is indeed a religion of destruction and not peace (as the title of this thread implies).

If you are really interested in the truth, I suggest you read some more instead of picking out verses that people commonly use to 'prove' that Islam promotes violence. You are using the same verses the terrorists use to justify their actions to feed hatred and fear. To embrace ignorance.

You might find this page of interest.


The Quran on war, peace and justice

War and terrorism are human failings. Some Muslims are twisting some portions of the Quran to justify their actions. At the same time there are many non-Muslims are misunderstanding certain verses about the Islamic conduct of war when it is forced upon them. Below is a clear explanation that can help clarify misconceptions.

When it comes to the Islamic conduct of war, some of the verses of the Quran that have often been quoted by non-Muslims to "prove" Islam promotes violence and bloodshed are found in Surah 2 verses 190-194:


I only brought up the bible because as the Christian holy book, it is another religious text. There are strange, violent words in the Christian bible, but we know that true Christianity is not violent and destructive.

There's the Old Testament, where slaves are fine to own:
Lev. 25:44 As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are round about you.

And when was the last time you worked on a Sunday? Oops!
Exodus 35:2 Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day you shall have a holy Sabbath of solemn rest to the LORD; whoever does any work on it shall be put to death;

Got any tattoos? Uh-oh!
Lev. 19:2 28 You shall not make any cuttings in your flesh on account of the dead or tattoo any marks upon you: I am the LORD.

I know this is not about the bible, but my point is that if you take everything literally from a holy book, you'll be misinformed no doubt!



posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 08:48 PM
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Personally I believe you would all be better off burning your holy books and reading the Sunday Comics instead. While you martyrs stew in your frustrations, blaming the West and any others that are unlike you for your failure to recognize and correct your own societies failings you forget the single most powerful commandment of all.

Do Unto Others As You Would Have Done Unto You

The actions of a few speak many more volumes of reality than
all the apologetic platitudes and promises of the many. May you all get right with the real G-D soon, judgement day is coming.



posted on Aug, 1 2005 @ 08:30 AM
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My Dear fellow members:

We are getting off the track gain, my main purpose of starting this thread was to promote PEACE. In order to do that we were required to build up an acceptance and understanding between the religions. WE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO ATTAIN PEACE UNLESS WE UNDERSTAND EACH OTHER. As a moderate Muslim I have no fear and no doubt that I AM NOT A TRUE MUSLIM IF I DON’T BELIVE IN JESUS THE GREAT OR THE BILBLE (Despite the certain facts with regards to validity of scriptures) Believing in Prophecy and divine books is part of Muslim faith. Therefore , there should not any question for Muslims with regards to understanding Jesus and Christianity (there might be some difficulties to understand the way we follow the Jesus) but over all Islam believes in these basic things, a) that There is no worship worthy but Allah (God), b) Faith in Devine books, c) Faith in Prophecy, d ) Faith in Angels, e) Faith in the Day of judgment, and f) That Muhammad (PBUH) is the last prophet of God and there is no prophecy thereafter. Since majority of Muslims understand and know more about Christianity, now there is more to be done for the other side i.e. to create a better understanding. Lets do that, my first step will be to motivate people to accept the Quraan as a Valid divine book. I am sure it is. If people have a doubt in my claim I always refer to their own community and references that could help create a sort of second thought in their mind. There is a vast research has been done by the Muslims and non-Muslims scholars, Education experts, Intellectuals and Scientists, so there are many fields where this unique book underwent scrutiny. Here I will just mention a few remarks from some of the renowned intellectuals and scientists.

Professor Dorja Rao: It is difficult to imagine that this type of knowledge was existing at that time, around 1400 years back. Maybe some of the things they have simple ideas about, but to describe those things in great detail is very difficult. So, this is definitely not a simple human knowledge
Some of them say that this knowledge can only be from outside of this universe.

Professor Armstrong:
There may well have to be something beyond what we understand as ordinary human experience to account for the writings that we have seen.

Professor Dorja Rao :
So, I thought the information must have come from a supernatural source.
Some of them came forward fearlessly and affirmed that this knowledge can only be from Allah, the Creator of the Universe.

Question: Then from whom do you think is the source of such information?

Professor Hay: Well, I think it must be the Divine Being.

Professor Kroner : ...modern scientific methods are now in a position to prove what Muhammad said 1400 years ago.

Professor Marshall Johnson :
I see nothing here in conflict with the concept that divine intervention was involved in what he was able to write.

Professor Shroeder :
Actually, the scientists are now discovering what has been said before.

Professor Persaud :
I have no difficulty in my mind in concerning that this is a divine inspiration or revelation which led him to relay the statement.
Some of them concluded their affirmation by saying:

Professor Keith Moore :
It is clear to me that these statements must have come to Muhammad from Allah, because almost all of this knowledge was not discovered until many centuries later. This proves to me that Muhammad must have been a messenger of Allah.

Some of them declared the shahaadah and embraced Islam!

Professor Tejasen :
I think this is the time to say: There is no god worthy of worship except Allah and that Muhammad is His Messenger!
There is no doubt that the Qur'aan is the eternal miracle in our possession. Allah has said in the Qur'aan:

Say: What thing is most weighty in evidence? Say: ‘Allah is witness between me and you; this Qur'aan has been revealed to me by inspiration. That I may warn you and all whom it reaches’. (Qur'aan 6:19).

Thus, whoever has been informed of this Qur'aan likewise, bears the testimony and warning. The nature of this testimony is the scientific affirmation that each verse in the book of Allah contains. Each verse contains divine knowledge. In each century, scholars make new advances in their various fields.

I selected a chunk of information covering only one topic you get more information about by clicking on below link
www.kyaz.com...

I believed that in above replies the Quraan was the book that suffered a lot of Doubt and questioning from my fellow members. So I thought lets start from here only, maybe some one will understand and accepts the validity of this divine revelation. Whenever it happened I will think I am helping reduce breaking the ice as it will be the 1st step towards Understanding Islam and its followers. Then It will be easier for us to talk about other issues. Help me built up this understanding. Help me GIVE A PEACE CHANCE. Trust me once this gap is filled. There will be no occupations, there will no unjust and there will no suicide attacks. But only the PEACE.



posted on Aug, 2 2005 @ 02:44 AM
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Originally posted by namehere

Originally posted by Peace20051. Quraan never teaches you killing and destruction.

2. Let’s go back to history and see how the Holy Prophet was made migrate to Madina and how he dealt with his enemies when he overcame on the them. There was not a single drop of blood wasted In this great victory.



1. and 2. But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

1.Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

2. right...raping and plundering and forcibly converting all pagans and jews and conquering all of arabia is so peaceful.....mmhmm.

explain these two verses.

ps: the quran sure calls christians liars pretty often, even so far as instructing muslims not to take them as friends and even saying christians will go to hellll, did mohommad have a grudge against christians or something?


One of the most seriously misunderstood aspects of Islam is it's position on fighting. This stems both from a widespread, general ignorance of Islam and a tendency to view the violent behavior of groups and individuals with only nominal ties to Islam as representative of Islam. For Muslims, the Qur'an contains God's own words and is not the work of inspired men. It is therefore, the ultimate authority which defines the beliefs and practices of Islam.

Often, people take verses, or parts of verses from the Qur'an, ignoring context and related verses, to make Islam appear warlike and violent, or to justify hostility and aggression. But a careful examination of the Qur'an yields a very different view.

Two other instances tell how hypocrites hate to strive in God's cause and try to avoid it (9:81,86). Where the Qur'an specifically commands striving, there is no reference to warfare (5:38, 9:41,73, 22:78, 25:52, 66:9).

We learn from the Qur'an that believers must be willing to exert great efforts in the cause of God, using our wealth and ourselves. These efforts (jihaad) may, or may not include fighting (qitaal). Fighting is called for only under certain circumstances and then, is strictly regulated in the Qur'an.
One often misused verse is 2:216;

"Fighting is prescribed for you and it is hateful to you. It is possible that you hate a thing that is good for you, and that you love a thing that is bad for. God knows and you do not know."

But this is, by no means the only verse that deals with fighting. What else does the Qur'an say about fighting? When, where, why, how, and with whom is fighting allowed? We find fighting commanded in these words:
Fight in the cause of God THOSE WHO FIGHT YOU. But DO NOT COMMIT EXCESSES. God does not love those who commit excesses. And slay them where encounter them. And expel them FROM WHERE THEY EXPELLED YOU. Unrest and oppression are worse than killing. Do not fight them at the sacred mosque, unless they fight you there. But IF THEY FIGHT YOU, slay them. Such is the reward of the disbelievers. (2:190-191 emphasis added).

These verses order fighting only those who fight you, suggesting only defensive combat. This is supported by the verses immediately following:
BUT IF THEY CEASE, God is Forgiving, Merciful, and Fight them UNTIL THERE IS NO MORE UNREST OR OPPRESSION and religion is for God. But if they cease, LET THERE BE NO HOSTILITY EXCEPT TO OPPRESSORS (2:192-193 emphasis added).

Combat is not limited to self-defense, however, but also includes defense of others;

And why should you not fight in the cause of God and THE WEAK AND OPPRESSED AMONG MEN, WOMEN, AND CHILDREN who say, "Our Lord rescue us from this town whose people are oppressors. And give us from You, a protector. And give us from You, a helper" (4:75 emphasis added).

The Qur'an indicates whom to fight, as we saw in 2:193 above. It also details specific behaviors in which they engage that justify fighting them:
The unbelievers plotted to resist you, or kill you or, expel you....The unbelievers spend their wealth to hinder (people) from the path of God....They are those with whom you made a covenant. BUT THEY BREAK THEIR COVENANT EVERY TIME and they are not conscious of God....But IF THEY VIOLATE THEIR OATH SAFTER THEIR COVENANT, AND DEFAME YOU FOR YOUR FAITH, fight the leaders of the unbelievers. For their oaths mean nothing to them. Perhaps they will be restrained. Will you not fight people who VIOLATED THEIR OATHS AND PLOTTED TO EXPEL THE MESSENGER, and ATTACKED YOU FIRST?(8:30, 36, 56, 9:12-13 emphasis added).

Knowing when to stop fighting is also critical and is dealt with by the Qur'an in no uncertain terms:

And fight them UNTIL THERE IS NO MORE UNREST AND OPPRESSION, and religion is for God.... But IF THEY LEAN TOWARD PEACE, YOU LEAN TOWARD PEACE and trust in God. He is the Hearer, the Knower (8:39, 61 emphasis added).

Finally, the Qur'an calls for good relations with all who uphold their treaties and do not fight against the Muslims:

As long as they stand true to you, stand true to them. For God loves the pious....God DOES NOT FORBID YOU, regarding THOSE WHO DO NOT FIGHT YOU FOR THE RELIGION, NOR EXPEL YOU FROM YOUR HOMES, FROM DEALING WITH THEM KINDLY AND JUSTLY. For God loves the just (9:7, 60:8 emphasis added).

These and other verses in the Qur'an make it clear that fighting is required in self-defense, or in defense of the weak and oppressed. But aggression is forbidden and fighting is allowed only against direct combatants, or their active supporters.




[edit on 2-8-2005 by Peace2005]



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 12:14 AM
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Originally posted by evanfitz
I think Islam is GREAT religion, teaches its followers how to live right.
Im a christian and I do have a muslim friend. I like the guy, he's from Bosnia but left because of the war. Fun person to talk to
btw Great Thread


Dear Evanfitz,

Thanks for the compliments, congrats you have another Muslim friend in me.
, well my main aim to start with this topic was to bring the two parties together so we can step foward towards peace. Hope you help me.



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 12:17 AM
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Originally posted by Peace2005
my main aim to start with this topic was to bring the two parties together so we can step foward towards peace. Hope you help me.


I think your posts are excellent and your goal is noble. But I must say I think the more important task to reach peace is for people like you to talk to radical Muslims rather than to Christians/Westerners. That's where the problem is coming from IMHO.

[edit on 8/4/2005 by djohnsto77]



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 01:34 AM
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Peace2005, thank you for taking the time to share with us your views and also for taking the initiative to try to get us all together in this time when universal understanding is a must.
I have a question for you regarding the end times. The bible has it all spelled out in the book of revelations and I was wondering if the Quran also had a book of revelations of sorts. I read where you did make mention of that day and was wondering if you could expound on that for me?

I also read a couple of statements that are contradictory...
Say: What thing is most weighty in evidence? Say: ‘Allah is witness between me and you; this Qur'aan has been revealed to me by inspiration. That I may warn you and all whom it reaches’. (Qur'aan 6:19).

I take it that this verse is Muhammad speaking and yet a little further on you stated...
"For Muslims, the Qur'an contains God's own words and is not the work of inspired men. It is therefore, the ultimate authority which defines the beliefs and practices of Islam. "

Small point but the contradiction stood out. Were you implying that the Quran was written by God and if so, I was under the impression that Muhammad had written it.

Forgive my ignorance if I'm wrong here but if so I'd like to get my learning straight.

I have several other questions but I won't trouble you with them at this point.


Also, I am a Christian at heart, believe that there is only one God, and that God is within us ALL. However, the Bible warns about consorting with devils and as you've seen, some people just don't have the love of God in them. The conviction of my Faith is strong enough to withstand the persecution you will witness here but I can't help but wonder why you would subject yourself to it in the first place. My aim is to bring people to the Lord before that hour... are you trying to bring people to Islam?

You must realize that a lot of people hold Islam (and Christianity) to blame for our woes and relatively speaking, governments have no culpability so there is no place else to direct our anger. Keep this in mind since no doubt, there will be those who will try to lash you with their tongues while still having their foot in their mouths.
I can appreciate the chance to have a dialogue with you. ... and who knows, maybe a peaceful understanding can be reached that bridges that gap between our religions.



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