I took a look at the recent posts and first want to thank the people who are now seriously looking into the case on its own merits. I also want to
acknowledge comments about how to note what is good evidence, what may not be, what can be proved, what can’t etc. I do try to make it clear that
the Meier case has factual and speculative information, i.e. that which I can show is true and that which I can’t. I also maintain that the
preponderance of evidence of authenticity is overwhelming and that each person will have to decide that for themselves.
I also have something else to add for your consideration but first, how can I resist making a few comments to JR’s post?
JR: No matter how this thing unfolds, there's always gonna be an excuse.
MH: Regarding my dispute with JR, I think that his own words above correctly describe his approach and attitude towards the case.
JR: 1,200 in amount does not make a case authentic as an unknown.
MH: I find it intellectually dishonest to make a statement like that one and not give some other comparable examples, which would at least show that,
indeed, a man who took over 1,200 clear, daytime photos with up to four craft moving in sequence across the sky was instead photographing/filming
KNOWN objects. So, yes, absent proof to the contrary it does qualify them as unknowns.
JR: Bruce Maccabee has concretely proven one of Meier's most famous films to be nothing but a tethered model, it's available at his site.
MH: And the above statement is simply a lie. To the contrary, the complete film clip puts to rest any doubt about models being used. And the film
mentioned has been shown through analysis to be authentic: “In the 18 March sequence Meier filmed the spacecraft circling a large tree in front of a
farmhouse. The sky was overcast with a low ceiling, and occasionally light snowflakes fell. The motion of the spacecraft looks suspiciously like it is
tethered from above as it appears to circle the tree and then to swing back and forth over the tree, except that on three occasions the spacecraft
changes its motion abruptly with no change in the tilt of the vertical axis of the ship. If it was in fact tethered, one would expect the vertical
axis to tilt as the tether point above was moved. In another measurement it was found that the tilt angle of the vertical axis in one oscillation
sequence was sufficient that the axis crossed within the frame and would have put the tether point within the picture. No tether point source was
revealed, in one of the final oscillation sequences the object appeared to pass directly over the top of the tree, and it is clearly seen that the
tree was swept over in the direction of the spacecraft, or appeared to follow the spacecraft as it passed. Clearly no model could have produced this
effect. When we revisited the scene we found that the tree had died and was cut down."
JR: As far as the sound recordings, I have taken said sample to some sound engineers I work with quite often. 2 out of the 3 said they believe it to
be a delay/echo 1960's tape delay in feedback. However, with the incredible amout of variables in such a device's output, it would take quite some
time to find the correct setting to achieve a near identical sound. The devices used (including the microphone), the settings of the delay device, the
output speaker, and the distance of the mic to the output source all would have to be known to produce the effect. All of these are unknowns. Sound
has an exceptional amount of variables such as this...and is very difficult to pin down to make an exact duplicate. I'm not surprised it hasnt been
duplicated, as it's almost like looking for a needle in a haystack. I'm sure thats something the sound report didnt mention that the sound engineers
most likely knew already. I personally had an old tape delay that would produce very similar sounds, and I recognized it almost immediately.
MH: Here we have the substitute of “belief” for analysis and avoidance of the facts of the analyses done by known, accredited sound professionals,
plus JR’s insinuation that he knows that this is a hoaxed recording. He neglects to mention the 15 witnesses, including an undercover
policeman…and that there were four separate events when the recordings were made. Now why does JR omit ALL of the troublesome little details that
simply contribute to the overwhelming preponderance of evidence of authenticity in the case? What is his agenda, is it to discover what’s true or to
keep people from finding it out by selectively disregarding all of the supporting, credibility enhancing details of the case? And…where are his or
his “experts” sound recordings to show us just how easily Meier “hoaxed” his?
JR: My opinion? Anyone with a nominal level of optics knowledge can figure out the photos with Photoshop and basic data of the camera Meier used (if
that data is even true).
MH: And just what is it that he “figured out”?
JR: But dont ever expect to get copies of original negatives, nor pictures. Horn can make excuse after excuse, but with the claims he touts of this
case, that information should be available. Thats it. Period. But it isnt.
And yes, that makes one very suspicious, and rightly so.
MH: Now, while we’re playing JR’s game and focusing on his demands and criticisms, it’s time to draw attention to the obvious, i.e. we have
photos of the hand and fingerprints recently discovered and, even better, the evidence is still available for testing. So, if JR was anything but a
disinformation agent, and he was really as interested in finding out if the case was true or not (the only thing that matters), wouldn’t he go and
examine the prints for himself and/or get some other qualified people to go along to do it? Oh, it’s not his area of expertise? So it doesn’t
matter if it’s true, it only matters that he find things to gripe about, which are ALWAYS present in this imperfect world…though he’d try to
have you think otherwise and to, definitely not focus on the question of the truth of the case. BTW, I’m sure he can get scientific experts to
examine the prints for free, since he (later) states that a new investigation should be done where “no money” is involved.
And as far as one being “very suspicious, and rightly so” I think the guy making the claims here – and not backing them up – is the one to be
JR: Duplicate the pictures? While it proves nothing, it's definitely do-able.
MH: As JR has indicated, he first contacted me sometime last year, so why in all this time hasn’t he duplicated those “definitely do-able”
pictures? In a comparable period of time, Meier took HUNDREDS of photos. Oh, I know, it “proves nothing”. This guy is a textbook poseur and
disinformation agent, voluntary or otherwise.
JR: With the attachment focus set near infinity, that disc isnt more then 2-3 feet away in either of those shots.
MH: A definitive…and unsubstantiated statement from a guy who simply still doesn’t prove it. How much clearer does this need to be?
JR: I dont blame Mike for leading people more towards the writing, as I have read some myself lately. While I personally believe it does not come from
any aliens, and I dont buy into Meier one little bit, there's alot of wisdom in his words....notice I say HIS words, because I believe he, not
pleadians wrote them (or dictated).
MH: We are getting to the heart of the matter in so far as JR’s real position is concerned, i.e. he has very strong “beliefs” and it’s very
clear that he colors his criticisms with them, a very unscientific way to proceed from a guy who claims to be scientific.
JR: He's a smart man, a rather worldly man who at times preaches alot of peace and love stuff...and I dont care who that comes from, we need all of
that we can get. I dont really believe it all, and not in the least the "prophetic" stuff. But the idea of changing the way the world is going by
realizing how stupid war is, and trying to realize how important each of us is? Thats not bad advice...now is it.
MH: Here JR gives a broad brush dismissal to the “… ‘prophetic’ stuff” without providing any specifics, when the amazingly specific (and
accurate) predictions and prophecies in the case that appeared in unalterable documents and copyrighted, published books are indisputable. No, he
certainly doesn’t want to focus on that. It’s not only outside of his area of interest, it confounds and contradicts whatever certainty and
“authority” he’d like to project.
JR: Such is religion. And thats what I tend to believe Meier tried and somewhat succeeded in doing.
MH: So JR again presents what he “believes” and, in the process, indicates his ignorance. Had he actually read the available information, and
troubled himself to meet the people involved, religion is the last thing that he would have associated with Meier or the case.
JR: I'm all for peace, and love, but dont sell it to me in a model flying saucer.
MH: Here we have it in his own unsubstantiated words, it’s “a model flying saucer”. And people here wonder why I’ve blown my top with this guy
and his phony representation of himself as an objective “expert”. Where has he proven that Meier used a model?
JR: People paint masterpieces with their toes, Jeff Healy plays guitar like a God and he's blind as a bat (on his lap with two hands), so forget the
bullcrap notion that he's so damned disabled. I've seen him put that camera on a tripod with whats left of an arm and his good arm. He's capable,
and it's seen on tape, so drop it.
MH: What an idiotic insult to anyone with any disability! Well, I guess if you can put a camera on a tripod you can hoax six categories of still
irreproducible physical evidence. It’s like saying to a guy in a wheel chair, “Hey, if you can bend down and tie your shoes, you’re
‘capable’ of running a marathon.”
When people have an agenda to debunk and discredit someone they go to great – and often obviously prejudicial – lengths to do so. Is someone
paying this guy to muddy the waters or is his own fear of the unknown, of being wrong, the motivating factor?
JR: Well, lets see, if you see a UFO and photograph it, and then "hire" or partner monetarily with an analyist, be it selling the photo, or video,
whatever...then dont you think that effects the outcome?
MH: More crap. Meier didn’t “hire” anyone, period. The real question may be, “Who hired Ritzmann to defame Meier?”
JR: This was a huge, huge stink with Bruce Maccabee in Gulf Breeze, when he was paid to write a book and conduct investigations. They drug him thru
the mud, and he's a serious researcher with more years in this then any of us. He's a good man too.
But, if he did accept money...was it wrong? To me, yeah. Not because of how it might or might not have effected him in his outcome, but the outlook
in the community that is already volitile enough as is. People think, "how can he say it's fake or not if he accepted cash for study on the
pictures?" I say the same here. There was money to gain, and I say, lets do it with someone who has nothing to gain. At all. Do it clean or dont do
it. Thats my point. Not that the Elders, Col. Stevens, or anyone else is dishonest (although I have no way to say if they are or not). It's the point
that monetary issues have clouded and effected the public perception of the investigation. Are you saying that none of the original investigators made
money off the books, videos, etc?
MH: More unfounded, unsubstantiated and inaccurate innuendoes and some of the most idiotic nonsense imaginable. First, there’s nothing illegal,
immoral, unethical or even questionable about someone selling the rights to their story…one that still captivates people 30 years later. And what on
earth can you criticize the investigators for who put up their own money – and their reputations – to investigate a controversial case that two of
them thought was a hoax when they started? For sheer stupidity, it’s hard to top this idea of “let’s do it with someone who has nothing to
gain”. How do you now get qualified scientific experts to do lengthy investigations/examinations without being paid for their time? As I said
before, let HIM get qualified experts who will fly to Switzerland and examine the handprint evidence for free.
The real point is that JR is AGAIN accusing people of fraudulent, financially motivated actions, conclusions, etc. without providing one shred of
evidence that it’s true. For people to have “made money off the books, videos, etc.” is neither a crime nor evidence of the dishonesty that he
is, effectively, accusing them – and me, by his definition – of. There’s a huge difference between doing something FOR money and making money
from something AFTER you’ve done it. Let’s remember that the books, videos, etc. are in demand BECAUSE of the amazing case, so if the people make
money after the fact it’s because there’s something of VALUE to people who buy it.
If anyone here is troubled by my pointing out JR's obvious "shortcomings" please show your integrity and be equally vocal about the kind of smear
tactics, broadly applied to good, dedicated people without one shred of evidence. That’s the real offense, the character assassination, the
masquerade as an “objective professional” when you’re an agenda driven “believer” and disinformer who is out to attack the people involved
in the case without ANYTHING to substantiate your dirty approach.
JR: Add poseur to the list. Again, the experts questioned and quoted dont say it's real....I mean how many times does this need to be said. Youre
portraying this point over and over, but in reading them, I dont see anyone saying something as concrete as you make out. No, I havent seen the
negatives, nor has anyone all these years as far as I know. Theyre gone. So are original prints...I mean these are all your words. Does no one else
think that someone outside those in the inner circle should have been able to examine these at length? I'm talkin full fledged investigation. Not an
opinion. I dunno, maybe I'm crazy, but scientist or not, expert or not, I always want more then one scientist doin work on medcine before I swallow
it. I want more then one scientist studying the cure for cancer, and when one finds it, doctors are going to demand proof from several scientific
groups...I mean, thats science. Duplicatable results outside the discoverer's.
MH: “inner circle” “full fledged investigation” “more than one scientist”, etc. This is the magician’s trick again, to distract you from
the FACTS and the TRUTH of the case so that YOU won’t find it. We have a hard choice here. Is JR just ignorant and uninformed or deliberately trying
to deceive us? Just who is or isn’t in this “inner circle”, what constitutes a “full-fledged investigation” if not a six-year long one and
are David Froning, Eric Eliason, Robert Post, Marcel Vogel, Nils Rognerud, Steve Ambrose, Nippon TV, Steve Singer, Jim Dilettoso, Peter Gimer, Rick
Coupland, Robin L. Shellman, Wally Gentleman, just “one scientist”?
JR: Again, I dont dismiss it, I find it suspect, in my opinion. Things look very much like models on a string, and your experts say they
arent...right? Well ok, I'd like a second opinion on that. Wouldnt the rest of you? Are you prepared to make your mind up on one research group's
say so? I aint.
MH: So, if I’m a little less than impressed that this incompetent fellow, who passes himself off as some kind of an expert, finds something
“suspect” and says absolutely stupid things like “things look very much like models on a string”, please pardon me. But this isn’t the
STANDARD by which the investigation and research was conducted. The investigators didn’t concern themselves with what things “look like” but
with what they could be shown to be or to not be. And they were shown to not be models or trick photography. Naturally, our genius friend here has yet
to substantiate his claim that they are models, big surprise.
JR: Rememeber people go after you when you make serious points. Not when youre a moronic loser....they just ignore you if you are.
MH: Okay, a great point well taken, maybe that is why people have gone after Meier for all these decades – and why we should ignore JR.
JR: Whats a million people mean? Maybe they're just goin for a laugh? Maybe theyre curious? I mean this guy goes on and on about 63 YEARS!!!.....1200
PHOTOS....I mean does that make it real? Believe me I know alot of the UFO community has left the case for dead, and I prolly should too...if no one
pays attention, then it can live forever. But new fish are always coming into the case green, and getting half the story. I mean what I've done is
nothing, there's plenty of people out there that have really tore into this case and found questionable stuff too. I aint alone, which is one good
MH: This is more of where the façade of credibility falls away from JR. Now he’s actually referring to the opinions of the unnamed so-called “UFO
community” and the anonymous “plenty of people out there that have really tore into this case and found questionable stuff too”. A really
unprofessional, non-credible guy who certainly wouldn’t make these lame references if he weren’t so out of ammunition.
Okay, if you don’t see now what a vacuous, unsupported, prejudiced “case” JR presents then I can’t help you. But I said that there was
something else that I wanted to put into evidence in the case mainly because there are people here who are indeed open minded enough to see that there
was something quite worthy of serious investigation, not the agenda driven, character assassinating hatchet job that JR has treated us to.
Meier spent time at an ashram in Mehrauli India in 1964. He actually took his first photographs of Asket’s UFOs there (up to eight of them). It was
here that Phobol Cheng, her grandfather and everyone else in the community saw the UFOs and Meier walking and talking with Asket. 34 years later,
Phobol, now retired from the UN after 14 years representing Cambodia in the General Assembly, came forward and gave an interview attesting to all of
this. (More can be read about this at www.tjresearch.info.) This may prove to be yet another opportunity for JR to attempt to slime another person
whose credibility is light years beyond his own. I can just see it now; he’ll suggest that she and Meier concocted a plan – 34 years earlier! –
to come forward and lend credibility to his “hoax”!
Now, since Meier took the photos over 40 years ago, in a remote part of India with no ability to make models, trick photography, etc. let alone
deceive all of the witnesses there, and since he was interviewed in the New Delhi Statesman newspaper at the time…I simply ask that those of you,
who even for a minute have thought that this is a “hoax”, take this information into account and THINK this through. Here’s a little more info
from a post by Jim Deardorff (www.tjresearch.info):
Recently I re-listened to the Laughlin video-tape talk by Phobal, which I
feel makes a very powerful statement, and picked up some points I had sort of forgotten about. So I thought some of you might want to refresh your
memories on it, too.
Phobal was very much a contactee of Asket, but of a very special sort. Not only did Asket contact her in her bedroom at bedtime, suddenly appearing
in the room, causing her to feel right at home as if with her mother (she was 8 years old then, and her parents were back in Cambodia) and then to
fall right asleep, but after quite some time of doing this Asket imparted some information telepathically to her. Part of it was of a psychic nature,
which made Phobal more understanding of the world around her, gave her a capability of discerning if a certain person was happy or sad and why, and
made her more observant of people and visitors to her grandfather's ashram.
So this was how, at age 8 to 9, she had observed Billy and noticed he was different; her contacts had prepared her for that. She first considered him
a friend, at the ashram, only after she saw him walking with Asket, because by that time she had been visited by Asket a lot and considered her a good
friend. She naturally had been told not to talk to strangers, especially men.
A piece of the telepathy was that sometime in later life Phobal would have a meeting of some sort with Billy (this was after she had learned at the
ashram who Billy was). And Billy had later been told the same.
So Asket's contacts with her evidently had as a main purpose preparing her to meet Billy later in life, and, I presume, to tell her story later to
interested persons, in support of Billy's contacts, as she did at Laughlin.
An item I had forgotten altogether is that when she saw the photo of Asket in the Elders' photo-book, she knew it didn't look like Asket, not only
because the hair was blonde instead of dark, but because Asket looked about half way in between Caucasian and Asian. So she fully supports what Meier
was told by Ptaah, that those (and some other) photos from the space trip
had been tampered with or hoaxed before Billy got them back from the fellow who had had them developed.
Another item -- that Asket was only around 5'1" tall.
Another item: that the head gardener at the ashram had also seen Asket's ship(s) a lot of times, and had seen Asket walking with Billy, and had
reported all this to Phobal's grandfather. I'm sure if Hesemann had been able to locate this gardener 35 years later and bring him to Laughlin to
tell what he saw, he would have.
A video tape well worth reviewing!
From the video "The Reopening of the Billy Meier Case," Collector Series Vols. 2 and 3, taped at the International UFO Congress in Laughlin, NV, on
Feb. 23, 1999.
Available from: International UFO Congress, Inc.,
9975 Wadsworth Pkwy #K2-504
Westminster, CO 80021 USA; Telephone: (303) 543-9443; Fax: (303)
543-8667; E-mail: firstname.lastname@example.org .
Now if you who aren’t put off by someone “making money”, you can get the video and see if you find Phobol to be credible. Finally, before I head
off to the airport, the total number of VISITORS to my site is about 1,000,000 and the total number of HITS over 4,000,000. I don’t mind mentioning,
or even bragging about, it since considering the kind of efforts by disinformation specialists like JR, who masquerade as “objective researchers”,
it’s no small accomplishment for there to be growing interest in the case, as witnessed by the huge volume of emails that I get from people all over
the world who’ve taken the time to write.