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The Bible, are we looking at it from the right angle?

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posted on Aug, 1 2005 @ 06:12 PM
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Originally posted by jake1997

In Exodus, God carved it with His finger into the stone.
In Revelation, John was a stenographer for Jesus in the letters to the churches. That is what I was referring to. No council wrote those


On the other hand--John didn't write in Latin and we know God doesn't use Latin since it is a dead language and God is ALIVE.





[edit on 8/1/2005 by queenannie38]




posted on Aug, 1 2005 @ 06:16 PM
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Originally posted by queenannie38

Originally posted by jake1997

In Exodus, God carved it with His finger into the stone.
In Revelation, John was a stenographer for Jesus in the letters to the churches. That is what I was referring to. No council wrote those


On the other hand--John didn't write in Latin and we know God doesn't use Latin since it is a dead language and God is ALIVE.





[edit on 8/1/2005 by queenannie38]


What in the world does that have to do with it?
The bible is also translated into chinese. Does that mean exodus did not happen?



posted on Aug, 1 2005 @ 07:14 PM
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Originally posted by jake1997

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by jake1997
Certainly parts of Exodus and Revelation were written directly by God


Nope. Written by MEN. Compiled by MEN. Sifted through by MEN.
Accepted (or rejected) at councils by MEN.

At no time did God come down from Heaven, sit at a table, pick up
a feather pen and papyrus, and write down exactly what happened.



Jake I agree with the quote above you are a littler bit confuse mose never wrote anything even when the first books of the bible was acredited to him he never wrote them.

And for "Revelations" they were written after AD. and in Greek so how in the world they were written in the time of moses when the christ was not even born.

I think you need to take your time when posting. Is starting to sound like rant.



posted on Aug, 2 2005 @ 12:02 AM
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Originally posted by jake1997
What in the world does that have to do with it?
The bible is also translated into chinese. Does that mean exodus did not happen?


I will explain it very carefully.


  • Latin is not the language your native tongue.
  • The RCC translated the bible to Latin and did not allow possession or reading of non-Latin bibles.
  • It is fact that the RCC executed many people in 1400-1500 for 'crimes' related to reading/owning/translating bibles in English--only Latin was allowed at that time.
  • Latin was not used by the common people at that time.



Is there anything that brings you to pause and consider there might be some hidden agendas in all that??!?



posted on Aug, 2 2005 @ 04:52 AM
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Lightseeker,
I must admit that I admire your convictions - there is no doubt about that - even though we do disagree on interpertations - I gotta admire them.

Interpertations are just that - other peoples ideas and concepts - it is only through discussing these things with open minds - that perhaps our ideas may need more information to allow us to form new ideas.

Gore was thought to be wishy-washy because he changed sides on a few issues, however as more information comes forth - ideas change.


Originally posted by lightseeker

Originally posted by dancer
Good! Now we are getting some where...

I maintain that Christ Never claimed to be G-d.

Working on the behalf of G-d - Definately - without question.


And I maintain just the opposite: Jesus declared Himself to be God in the flesh and prophesied early in His ministry why and how He would be arrested and crucified and His return to Heaven to sit down at the right hand of he Father.


I Stumbeled across this:
Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

If Christ declared himself to be G-d, then he - as G-d would know, and it would not be specified that only the Father Knows.

Now, I recognise that this is not exactly Scriptural ~ But it may be helpful for some to understand things.

PART of the reason Christ was sent here was to help a very logical G-d try to understand and relate to humans better...

He (G-d) used to get upset with man - he'd say do this - and humans wouldn't. This Caused him to throw Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden, and then The Flood, That didn't work - all it did was to make G-d feel really bad. But there has gotta be a way to fix the mess - man needs something in wrighting, He went down himself to hand pick his messanger, and make 10 Commandments. So he gets hold of Moses and produces the 10 Commandments - He hangs out with Moses so people could see him - and get the word around that he really did exist and maybe they would finnaly get the message. (After 40 years in the desert - and not even their shoes wore out) Ok, that works for a while, but man falters - G-d's not quite sure how to relate to these humans he loves so much (he made them, how could he not love them) - But this mess on planet earth has gotta stop.

Nothing worked so far, He punished man, and man didn't listen, he gave his commandments to follow and nobody reads them... This is getting old by now, and he starts thinking again.

While he was trying to figure out a way that would work to reason with them - He was running out of ideas - these humans were not logical and couldn't be reasoned with - There had to be a way- but by george they confuse him - they are so illogical it is really sad. At that point he figures ok - I got it - I'll make one of me down there on earth and let him be one of them, now since I am sending him down and briefing him on everything I'm trying to do there he can do it - especially if he is like them - and in return, he can help me understand these bizare creatures.

And that is part of the Story behind Christ...

That is why -
Gen - 1:26 Let US make man in our image. (Who is "US" and "Our" ?)
Could not have been the trinity (Father, Son, & Holy Spirit ) as the Son did not as of yet exist.



posted on Aug, 2 2005 @ 12:55 PM
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One littler footnote here . . . let's just remember that Christ never wrote anything of himself in his own hand for his followers to read and remember him.

Jesus never wrote anyting either. Jesus was an educated man a "teacher" but he chose not to leave any living words.

The apostles are the ones that wrote the christ and Jesus stories from birth to death.

Funny how minds can do so much when redacting the accounts of others lives.

Every thing we read in the bible has been writen by sources accounts.



posted on Aug, 2 2005 @ 07:06 PM
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To the above, Jesus the Christ previously answered....

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.



posted on Aug, 2 2005 @ 09:50 PM
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Originally posted by dancer
Sight2reality
In the book of JOB - Why was G-d walking with Satan in the first place?
My really big question is why did G-d let satan con him in to messing with Job? and after G-d messed him up - why did he only replace what he took - he didn't give him a little extra for all the agrivation he caused him.
[edit on 7/28/2005 by dancer]


God was not walkin with satan, satan showed up at a meeting of the "sons of god" referring to angels. satan is a fallen angel. anyways, God let satan mess with Job so that it wasnt because of his material wealth that Job was obeying God. Anyways, God did replace everything Job had, but more.



posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 10:01 PM
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Originally posted by DanD9
God was not walkin with satan, satan showed up at a meeting of the "sons of god" referring to angels. satan is a fallen angel. anyways, God let satan mess with Job so that it wasnt because of his material wealth that Job was obeying God. Anyways, God did replace everything Job had, but more.


Intersting, In all the times I read Job, 42:10 it never registered ~ don't even pretent to know how that is possible - This is one of the reasons forums like this are great - There was never a doubt that there were things I have read over and over that for some reason never clicked in - and it takes someone else to say - "Hey - wait a minute your wrong."

I was always under the impression that G-d only replaced what he took.

42:10 And the LORD turned the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends: also the LORD gave Job twice as much as he had before.

Still - if G-d is as upset with satan as we are led to belive:
Why did G-d allow satan in his presence?
It says satan came among the sons of G-d, why did the sons of G-d allow satan among them? I certainly would not allow my fathers enemys near him, nor would I allow them in my presence.

Why did G-d bother talking to satan in the first place?
All he had to do was to send him away.
G-d talks to him more than once as well - why?
The only restraint was that satan couldn't kill Job.

Things that I guess we must be reduced to womder about.

Also interesting is that some of the referances made by G-d in Job have only recently been confirmed by science. Eg. there are no stars above the north pole, springs below the oceans, etc.

It is my understanding that The behemoth was a dinosaur, and the levathon a fire breathing dragon (although they are for the most part belived to exist only in faery tales).

41:
19 Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out.
20 Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron.
21 His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth.



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 02:38 AM
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Originally posted by dancer
I Stumbeled across this:
Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

If Christ declared himself to be G-d, then he - as G-d would know, and it would not be specified that only the Father Knows.


In my opinion, I think Jesus didn't know the hour or the day at that particular time. But after He died and then ressurected He sat at the right hand of God. So as of right now, I wouldn't underestimate the knowledge He has of His own return, so to speak. I mean, later He came back and told John all about it on Patmos. I think right now, He and all his Angels know exactly when its going to happen.



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 05:26 PM
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This is another great verse for showing that the Father and Son are separate...even tho they are one.

ie... "Let US make man in our image"



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 10:51 PM
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Originally posted by joyouslyhumored

In my opinion, I think Jesus didn't know the hour or the day at that particular time. But after He died and then ressurected He sat at the right hand of God. So as of right now, I wouldn't underestimate the knowledge He has of His own return, so to speak. I mean, later He came back and told John all about it on Patmos. I think right now, He and all his Angels know exactly when its going to happen.



I've always had that same opinion, or some sort of inkling that is the case.

I don't know why mankind always a wants God to fit in a man-made box--yet needs a God who is, on all accounts, 'totally outside the box.'

We've got what we need to know about Christ and the Father--for now, it seems--or else we would have been given more information by Christ, Himself. So what we have is what we know. I can't see that defining God and all His unsearchable character is of any benefit to any would-be authors of definition.

Faith must be much more of a catalyst than we think, more of a retarder than a facilitator, because I'm hazarding the assumption that God can do anything--for 'with God, all things are possible' and yet the fact we don't believe that fact is the reason we don't seek miracles these days.

I don't mean 'seeking signs' but rather the kind of faith Abraham had on Mt. Moriah.



posted on Aug, 6 2005 @ 06:01 PM
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Originally posted by queenannie38
I don't know why mankind always a wants God to fit in a man-made box--yet needs a God who is, on all accounts, 'totally outside the box.'


Man creats his own G-d - in his own image and concept of what G-d should be to him/her using limited human understandings. To try to explain that which cannot be explained.


Originally posted by queenannie38
Faith must be much more of a catalyst than we think, more of a retarder than a facilitator, because I'm hazarding the assumption that God can do anything--for 'with God, all things are possible' and yet the fact we don't believe that fact is the reason we don't seek miracles these days.


One of my major difficulties with Christian cults (A great deal of what is labeled as Christian religions should be labeled as cults.) is their ability to point to 'with God, all things are possible' in all things, maintain that Christ is/was G-d-man present on earth in all things but to still maintain a Zwinglian Philosophy - to me it is heracy. ->
Ok, again their G-d is not my G-d, as mine knows no limitations.



posted on Aug, 6 2005 @ 08:15 PM
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Originally posted by dancer
One of my major difficulties with Christian cults (A great deal of what is labeled as Christian religions should be labeled as cults.) is their ability to point to 'with God, all things are possible' in all things, maintain that Christ is/was G-d-man present on earth in all things but to still maintain a Zwinglian Philosophy - to me it is heracy. ->
Ok, again their G-d is not my G-d, as mine knows no limitations.
Yes. Yes. And yes.

I think we must have the same God since mine knows no limitations, either.

I don't consider myself a Christian, either--not because I reject Christ (whom I accepted 28 years ago) but because I reject the man-made institution of Christianity. I have more than a sneaking suspicion that whole heretical idea is at the root of the 13th chapter of Revelation.



posted on Aug, 7 2005 @ 12:57 PM
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I know the bible sates that we are in Satan's/Lucifer's dominion at this very moment. That being the case, perhaps the whole bible has been recorded in reverse to what it is actually suppose to have been delivered.

So, maybe the right angle, would be reversed.

Just a thought.



posted on Aug, 7 2005 @ 02:18 PM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
I know the bible sates that we are in Satan's/Lucifer's dominion at this very moment. That being the case, perhaps the whole bible has been recorded in reverse to what it is actually suppose to have been delivered.


Some Hardline Christians would maintain that translating in that manner would be an absolute corruption of G-ds story.

Although I have concidered that idea.
My thought is that Since Hebrew is a hieroglyphics type enscription system, and that every symbol of Hebrew is itself a long definition. Most likely developed by G-d and given to Adam (as there are writings attributed to Seth). Additionally given the concept that the Holy Scriptures (Old Testament) were encoded by G-d (which explains the "Bible Code").

With these concepts - G-d wanted to make sure that no matter who or how the Bible was translated - there was a story there.

In one of my other posts, I put forth the concept that if it is translated left to right, right to left, or in any combination/patterns of columns and rows that there would be discovered another complete text - that would/should compliment any translation arived at using any other method.

--
I should again mention that the following is not "Scriptural" how ever it may bring a better/alternate understanding of things.

A quick point of curriosity - There are disputes about Lucifers gender. G-d is male, is good - etc. Then if Lucifer is is his equal opposite Lucifer may be female, Evil, etc. (Someone once told me that if you look behind any major event there you will find a woman pulling the strings)

A Quick note on "Satans dominion"
I have heard it said and argued that the whole idea of Satan being an advosary of G-d is quite erronious (Part of the idea being - if G-d is all knowing - all seeing he never would have created an advosary that he couldn't blink out of existance - any controdiction to this would indicate that G-d has limits).

Satan is the name of an Office, (eg. Prosecutor) it is often confused/confounded with Lucifer (The name of the individual designated to "bring things to light" which is a close proximation of the name Lucifer that which means something close to Light Bearer)

The Idea of "Lucifers dominion"-
G-d saw that Lucifer was becoming more and more powerful. Lucifer and G-d had different views regarding how things should be run. So to keep Lucifer happy, he gave to Lucifer his/her own dominion to rule and allowed Lucifers followers to go with him so that Lucifer could rule as (s)he saw fit. This Dominion does contain earth.

An Additional concept is that G-d saw man continualy messing up - really bad - and that G-d had reconstructed the earth several times (this would account for an intersting statement by G-d in Genisis when G-d tells man to REplenish the earth - not to fill the earth but in effect to refill the earth)
So G-d goes to his close friend Lucifer and says Hey - I need a favor, I know I can trust you to do this. But it means that man will curse you and your name forever. Go down to earth and taunt them, make them miserable. This way they will see the error of their ways and come back to me and do things right. - Now, Lucifer didn't want to do this - so they went back and forth discussing it until he finally agreed. (This would make Lucifer effectively G-ds boogy man)

- Something to concider -
The Christian sect is big on repentance, and some parts are big on "Getting Saved" - If Lucifer gets saved everyone else does - it's the trickel down effect.

So Why don't the Christians save Lucifer?
Of all the Christian Teachings of Forgiveness and repetence etc. Why are they failing to save the one individual who if saved would save everyone?
The word Hypocricy doesn't seem to cover it - How about the word Control?



posted on Aug, 7 2005 @ 02:40 PM
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ha ha good point

Christ says 'love others as I have loved you' -- 'let your light shine and glorify your Father in heaven.'

So 'christians' hold fast to the belief that this love includes pain and eternal torment as punishment--not a good light to represent A Just and Merciful God. And they scorn others who have seen the truth in the gospel message--that the GOOD NEWS is truly good and true: Christ died for all men, He is the lamb who takes away the sin of the world.

In accusing others of 'universalism' they say 'just because it's nice to believe all will be saved.' It's not 'nice' -- it is truth according to the love of God. Anything else besides total reconciliation makes God a 'respecter of persons.'



posted on Aug, 7 2005 @ 03:26 PM
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Yes......

Can it be that Simple???

-----
Ain't we a pair???



posted on Aug, 7 2005 @ 08:17 PM
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Originally posted by dancer

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
I know the bible sates that we are in Satan's/Lucifer's dominion at this very moment. That being the case, perhaps the whole bible has been recorded in reverse to what it is actually suppose to have been delivered.


Some Hardline Christians would maintain that translating in that manner would be an absolute corruption of G-ds story.[/qoute]

Yet, we now read the bible from left to right, and not from right to left, as first written. People who translated it did it out of necessity, seeing how the majority of the world would have been too lazy to learn how to read other languages.

[qoute]
With these concepts - G-d wanted to make sure that no matter who or how the Bible was translated - there was a story there.

In one of my other posts, I put forth the concept that if it is translated left to right, right to left, or in any combination/patterns of columns and rows that there would be discovered another complete text - that would/should compliment any translation arived at using any other method.


Curiouser and curiouser.

--
I should again mention that the following is not "Scriptural" how ever it may bring a better/alternate understanding of things.



A quick point of curriosity - There are disputes about Lucifers gender. G-d is male, is good - etc. Then if Lucifer is is his equal opposite Lucifer may be female, Evil, etc. (Someone once told me that if you look behind any major event there you will find a woman pulling the strings)

Although women are evil (joke), I would like to contest the claim that God is a male, as no human has seen his "package".

A Quick note on "Satans dominion"
I have heard it said and argued that the whole idea of Satan being an advosary of G-d is quite erronious (Part of the idea being - if G-d is all knowing - all seeing he never would have created an advosary that he couldn't blink out of existance - any controdiction to this would indicate that G-d has limits).

mercy has limits. God will not blink fear and hate out of existance, because then God would loose their polar opposite: Love. God is truth, and truth is that truth needs to love truth in order to continue to exist. Therefore God cannot will out of existance fear and hate and retain love, only creation can accomplish that for God.

Hence, we are.


Satan is the name of an Office, (eg. Prosecutor) it is often confused/confounded with Lucifer (The name of the individual designated to "bring things to light" which is a close proximation of the name Lucifer that which means something close to Light Bearer)


Ophiuchus




- Something to concider -
The Christian sect is big on repentance, and some parts are big on "Getting Saved" - If Lucifer gets saved everyone else does - it's the trickel down effect.

So Why don't the Christians save Lucifer?
Of all the Christian Teachings of Forgiveness and repetence etc. Why are they failing to save the one individual who if saved would save everyone?
The word Hypocricy doesn't seem to cover it - How about the word Control?


FEAR of loosing what they love.

And hate is what happens when you fear loosing what you love.

And .....

So Why don't the Christians save Lucifer?

Fear of loosing the church, which is to say fear of loosing control. But, they really have no control. its an illusion.



posted on Aug, 7 2005 @ 08:48 PM
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Although women are evil (joke), I would like to contest the claim that God is a male, as no human has seen his "package".
Er... Aside from being male chovanist - the other proof that G-d is male is rather simple -
If G-d was female - she never would have created men.


mercy has limits. God will not blink fear and hate out of existance, because then God would loose their polar opposite: Love. God is truth, and truth is that truth needs to love truth in order to continue to exist. Therefore God cannot will out of existance fear and hate and retain love, only creation can accomplish that for God.

Interesting limitations this g-d has - he requires others to balance his existance.

Mercy has it's limits - to humans. Any g-d without everlasting love and mercy is a feutal one. The G-d of which I speak is incapable of feutility.

Hate is is the sister of love, both being passionate emotions, indiffereance is its opposite.

I think the reason for G-d not blinking these things away is to allow us to learn from them, and cope with them. - Look at how boring things would be if everyone was the same, thought the same, looked the same, and belived in the same things.... My - that would be Hell...


Ophiuchus

Asclepius

[edit on 8/7/2005 by dancer]







 
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