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What is a true patriot?

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posted on Jul, 29 2005 @ 02:49 AM
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I take it, Wiley_Wonka that you don't actually have anything to contribute, and I don't mean to this thread, I mean to the planet.

May I kindly ask you to stick to the weapons forums, where the rest of the single cell organisms reside.

That goes for GrandCourtJester aswell...!!

I understand the idea of injecting a little humour, but it's an idea to contribute at the same time.

[edit on 29-7-2005 by Koka]




posted on Jul, 29 2005 @ 03:24 AM
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Please refrain from short repsonses or simply posting unrelated pictures to the topic at hand. They add nothing to the current discussion.

Thanks
FredT



posted on Jul, 29 2005 @ 01:08 PM
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Beyond a picture of the Patriot missile system, I do actually mean to contribute. I like to inject a little humor into a serious discussion, and the only reason I didn't follow up was because it was very late at night.

I feel a patriot is someone who is proud to be associated with the cultural and idealistic values of his country. He can disagree with some ideals, and simply hate others, but in the end he is glad to be the product of his surroundings.

I realize not following up immediately with that was in bad taste, as it made my intentions unclear, but i've got to say that I feel you totally took it out of proportion by saying I have nothing to contribute to the planet. Maybe not at 1 a.m. in the morning, but I think i've got just as much as anybody else to contribute. It's a shame you feel that I don't.

[edit on 7/29/2005 by Wiley_Wonka]

[edit on 7/29/2005 by Wiley_Wonka]



posted on Jul, 29 2005 @ 01:37 PM
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I just saw what thread I posted this in anyways for the first time
. I guess I just need to stay off ATS after midnight now! I can see why the humor wasn't appreciated for sure.



posted on Jul, 29 2005 @ 02:54 PM
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Patriotism is a complex combination of a sense of duty and honor for the nation that one owes allegiance to.

Technically the word patriot is derived from Latin Pater (father) and can be interpreted to mean:

A patriot is a fellow country-man, one having the same forefathers.

www.wordsmith.org...


Obviously it could be updated to mean foremothers in addition to forefathers, but the feeling is a connection to those who came before, the people who worked and fought and died to create this country, and those who work to uphold it.

Since our modern form of government is such that there are checks and balances, and since the generally interpreted public opinion or will of the people does not always match the decisions of the government itself, there appears to be some leeway in whether this honor is to the rulers, or to the people, as the Thomas Jefferson reference summarizes quite aptly.


Of course, our forefathers were not always honorable in the sense that we have interpreted this today, in that they owned slaves, and did not support the women's right to vote, and so on. In the same vein, Fascist regimes that practice patriotism, where their forefathers are Nazis, are indeed patriots, only they are patriots to their calling of fascism.


So, today's "true" patriot would need to be additionally specified as whether you are referring to a patriot of the United States of America, and whether you have a literal interpretation of a patriot being honorable to the current form of government, or to the will of the people. This is a popular theme of many hollywood movies nowadays, where people like Harrison Ford and others become heros when they defy their superiors to carry out this "will of the people." Unfortunately there is a fine line here between what is being a patriot and what might be violating some particlar rule that the current government has imposed. Whether the rule may be right or wrong is yet another issue.

So the feeling seems to be with the interpreted will and passions that the people have, that our forefathers had, almost a spiritual allegiance to a feeling of passion and pride for the principles that the nation stands for, rather than the literal interpretation of what we as citizens are expected to do.



posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 07:48 PM
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www.worldofquotes.com...

OOPS!

[edit on 31-7-2005 by scottsquared]



posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 07:59 PM
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www.worldofquotes.com...

I realize that patriotism is not enough. I must have no hatred toward any one.
Author: Edith Louisa Cavell
Source: quoted by the newspapers as before being shot by Germans in Brussels, Oct. 15, 1915

My country, right or wrong," is a thing that no patriot would think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying, "My mother, drunk or sober."
Author: Gilbert Keith Chesterton
Source: The Defendant

Our country is the world--our countrymen are all mankind.
Author: William Lloyd Garrison
Source: motto of the "Liberator" (1837-39)

Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Author: Samuel Johnson
Source: Boswell's Life of Johnson

Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.
Author: Juvenal (Decimus Junius Juvenal)
Source: Satires (VIII, 244), title bestowed on Cicero (64 BC) after his consulship

Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all others because you were born in it.
Author: William Shakespeare
Source: Coriolanus (Cominius at III, iii)

You'll never have a quiet world till you knock the patriotism out of the human race.
Author: George Bernard Shaw
Source: O'Flaherty, V.C. Patriotism has become a mere national self assertion, a sentimentality of flag-cheering with no constructive duties.
Author: H.G. Wells (Herbert George Wells)
Source: Future in America

A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government.
Author: Edward Abbey
Source: None

Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.
Author: Charles de Gaulle
Source: None

Patriotism is a pernicious, psychopathic form of idiocy.
Author: George Bernard Shaw
Source: None

In Dr. Johnson's famous dictionary, patriotism is defined as the last refuge of a scoundrel. With all due respect to an enlightened but inferior lexicographer, I beg to submit that it is the first.
Author: Ambrose Bierce
Source: None

This heroism at command, this senseless violence, this accursed bombast of patriotism--how intensely I despise them!
Author: Albert Einstein
Source: None

[edit on 31-7-2005 by scottsquared]



posted on Aug, 1 2005 @ 07:49 AM
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Nice quotes scottsquared, I checked out the link and have adopted one for my signature, although there were many great ones to choose from...


It seems that when it comes to the discussing of the word "Patriot(ism)", there is a line drawn between the will of the government and the will of the people.

[edit on 1-8-2005 by Koka]



posted on Aug, 1 2005 @ 08:12 AM
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Blind Patriotism is the politics of fools and mad men....

Thats right, patriotism is one of the most abused ''things'' that exists in the world today, people use it to defend their hate, greed, and lack of respect for others.

A true patriot is, in my opinion a person who believes in the people of their nation, looks upon them with pride and believe that the unity that their country provides is a force for good rather than evil.

Patriotism (aka pride) is one of the most powerful tools that humanity has at its fingertips, but it is also one of the most corrupting tools.



posted on Aug, 1 2005 @ 08:16 AM
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Blind anything is dangerous as well as idiotic.
Weather it be Blind Patriotism or Blind faith.
Either will just foster ignorance and both will ultimately lead to disaster.



posted on Aug, 1 2005 @ 11:55 PM
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.
The real worthwhile patriot is/are the one(s) who support and protect ideals rather than just flags or nations or even ideologies.

Such as,

Free speech.
Law abiding liberty.
Personal freedoms.
Fairness.
.



posted on Aug, 2 2005 @ 12:32 AM
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Koka, a true patriot doesn't have to wear a uniform. Sometimes, a true patriot is the one NOT wearing the uniform.
A true partiot is the one who believes in the ideals his nation stands for, no matter how far away from them his nation may have strayed, and works to do his part to put his nation on the right path.

A true patriot marches with his leader when he is right, and stands in front of a tyrannical leader, even if it means his liberty or life.



posted on Aug, 11 2005 @ 08:48 AM
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What is a true patriot?


Somebody who believes in their mother countries principles....
Forget the military ect, but i'm talking about the core principles, like what's in the bill of rights, or character, or whatever title they put on it.

I for one love my country, the beauty of it all, the wide variety of cultures, obviously the bill of rights, but i'm throwing other things out there, the fact that we have the privelage of learning a second language when we're younger if we so choose to have a job that requires bilingualism.
Many other small things like that I appreciate moreso then before.
I guess one could say you appreciate these little things when your not there...but wish you were.



posted on Aug, 30 2005 @ 09:35 PM
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Originally posted by worldwatcher
I love my country and I support our good deeds and defend us when I feel a cause a justified, but I also speak up against things that I don't agree with in this country, so am I a patriot or not? I don't know.


But you need to remember that sometimes the country needs to be defended from itself and it's own leaders. Like when the founding fathers revolted against the british, or in the 60's when the anti-establishment went against the federal government. So just because what you say contradicts the government's position does not mean you are unpatriotice.

Patriotism is simply a point of view. Nothing more. Anybody who is acting in what he views to be the good of the country is a patriot to himself and those who agree with him. Like the old phrase goes, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.



posted on Aug, 31 2005 @ 09:59 AM
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Originally posted by slank
.
The real worthwhile patriot is/are the one(s) who support and protect ideals rather than just flags or nations or even ideologies.

Such as,

Free speech.
Law abiding liberty.
Personal freedoms.
Fairness.


I completely agree with this. It's very close to how I feel it.

I really like people who love his own land, but I don't sympathize when someone will do and accept everything just because he is a patriot.



posted on Sep, 24 2005 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by Koka
I'm not sure I could call myself a true patriot as I cannot claim to be overly proud regarding the history of my country, but I am still British.

Looking back in history, the British, in fact, more specifically, the English have caused a great deal of upset, conflict and destruction of which I would prefer to be disassociated with.

So, if you don't mind, whichever country you hail from, what is your take on being patriotic?

So, what is a true patriot?



I believe that pride can lead to ignorance and egotism which can easily make one blind. You can be proud of your nations past but not be proud of your nations present, or you can be proud of your nations present but not the past, whatever direction your nation is going in whether it be good or bad, if you can discern and judge right from wrong and still love your country despite the leaders you are patriotic.

Leaders don't make the country but decisions that affect the people on a large scale does, and if you love your country and know whats right/wrong then its your duty to make sure you fight for whats right out of love of your country. You can't trust anybody in government because those people that put themselves in that role are mostly self gratifying elistists who want control no matter how much they make themselves out to be caring and for the people.

so in short I would define a patriot as someone who loves their country no matter despite the flaws of the elected. but then you have to think about what you love about your country, the ideas, the landscape, the people, the laws, the freedoms? there is a multitude of reasons, but it's very easy to get mad about the people in government who make decisions that affect you. what can you do? only so much, you can't kill them, you can't march into their office and kick the crap out of them and demand them to change their ways, you can only protest and write letters in hopes of change. thats why i miss the old days, back then you could use force and it wouldn't be a crime you would be more of a statemen and looked at as a patriot because you were doing what was right for all, laws have made it tougher for those who are passionate about their countries well being to do something.

what politician can you think of that does the right thing for all??

and as apparent patriots, why do people elect 'politicians' and no 'independant's' who would be more apt to do a better job for all. are those not the people who care more about their country? politician's spend alot of money to make alot of money and make decisions, they are bought and paid for, they get greased, they get black mailed, and they make decisions for lobbyists... this isn't for country this is for jing and for the corporate well being... why don't we vote for the poorest person running for whatever seat, aren't these the people that want to make their country right?




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