It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

NEWS: IRA To Renounce Violence.

page: 2
7
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 27 2005 @ 05:28 PM
link   
IRA progress is always good... the official military wing of the Republican movement have for a long while seen the future in the peace process, regardless of how slow progress has been. That is half the battle with long running disputes like this; once those with the weapons accept the process, the writing is on the wall.

I'd have to agree with Subz subsequently with engaging the political side of those groups involved with 'Islamic Jihad'. I think that if you look at many of the Al-Qaida 'sponser groups' (for lack of a better term) around the world, you find that most will have long esablished roots in local inter communical conflicts resulting from post colonial histories or older (Chechnya, Phillipines, Indonesia...). Try to address these and you'll begin to cut the 'terror netweorks' down massively...




posted on Jul, 27 2005 @ 06:04 PM
link   

Originally posted by subz
The way I see it is we have two options.

1) Fight terrorism as if its a conventional war (War on Terror) which we are currently doing.

OR

2) Encourage existing politcal wings of terrorist organisations such as Hamas and entice other groups to do the same. Be sincere in listening to their greivances and give them something to work towards.


Sorry, to me, that would give political legitimation to these terrorist organizations, as if we would condone their past actions and ignore the deaths these people caused for years. Terrorists are terrorists, no matter what benign form they would take for legitimacy's sake.


Originally posted by subz
Lets say, with Islamic extemists such as Hamas, that they are given a political voice in a newly created Palestinian state. There will still be those who are not satisfied and want the destruction of Israel, but there will also be those who will put their energy and time into the political process. It will fracture Hamas much the same way as did the IRA and the real IRA. Once it is fractured you heap support on the non-violent faction and come down hard with police forces on those who remain violent.


Hamas is more of a hardcore, deeply religious, tightly knitted terrorist group than the IRA. Hamas' politics are Islamic-oriented and Islamocentric, not of a secular kind like the Fatah is trying to become under Abbas. They would never renounce violence because they see it a primary mean to a greater end: the destruction of Israel and the total establishment of an Islamic Palestinian state (these are the primary goals of Hamas).

You could spend years, even decades trying to convince the political wing of Hamas to distance themselves from the military wing of Hamas and they won't even budge. Why? Its political wing is its military wing as with its more influentially powerful religious wing. It's all interwoven, unlike the IRA.



[edit on 7/27/2005 by the_oleneo]



posted on Jul, 27 2005 @ 07:36 PM
link   

Originally posted by the_oleneo
Sorry, to me, that would give political legitimation to these terrorist organizations, as if we would condone their past actions and ignore the deaths these people caused for years. Terrorists are terrorists, no matter what benign form they would take for legitimacy's sake.

All I know is that it worked in Northern Ireland and the initiative came from our very own niggardly inching giver, Tony Blair. We ended the spiral of violence and that was a direct result of including them in the political process. See it as rewarding terrorism if you must but the paramount goal is to stop the killing, not stand on morals.


Originally posted by the_oleneo
Hamas is more of a hardcore, deeply religious, tightly knitted terrorist group than the IRA.

The IRA is a staunchly Roman Catholic organisation. You wont find Protestants in their ranks, I think that classes them as a deeply religious terrorist organisation.


Originally posted by the_oleneo
Hamas' politics are Islamic-oriented and Islamocentric, not of a secular kind like the Fatah is trying to become under Abbas. They would never renounce violence because they see it a primary mean to a greater end: the destruction of Israel and the total establishment of an Islamic Palestinian state (these are the primary goals of Hamas).

I fail to see how the fact that Hamas is so inclined changes the fact that we can syphon off support from those hell bent on destroying Israel terrorists. The alternative to giving them a chance to join the political process is more invasions and a higher death toll. What exactly do we have to lose in allowing them a stake in the political future?


Originally posted by the_oleneo
You could spend years, even decades trying to convince the political wing of Hamas to distance themselves from the military wing of Hamas and they won't even budge. Why? Its political wing is its military wing as with its more influentially powerful religious wing. It's all interwoven, unlike the IRA.

Our governments are planning a 20 to 30 year campaign with the War on Terror. I think spending years on trying to find peace ala Northern Ireland (the longest running terrorist conflict ever) is a better path to follow than perpetual hyper war. Dont you?

[edit on 27/7/05 by subz]



posted on Jul, 27 2005 @ 08:04 PM
link   
Yeah right the IRA is renouncing violence like george bush is renouncing lying.



posted on Jul, 27 2005 @ 08:35 PM
link   

Originally posted by subz
The IRA is a staunchly Roman Catholic organisation. You wont find Protestants in their ranks, I think that classes them as a deeply religious terrorist organisation.


Funny, they don't get much backing from the Vatican these days, you know?
I can't imagine an Irish Catholic priest or a bishop preaching a fire-n-brimstone sermon upon the Irish Catholics to wage a bloody "jihad" against all of England nowadays, eh?


Originally posted by subz
I fail to see how the fact that Hamas is so inclined changes the fact that we can syphon off support from those hell bent on destroying Israel terrorists. The alternative to giving them a chance to join the political process is more invasions and a higher death toll. What exactly do we have to lose in allowing them a stake in the political future?


What Israeli terrorists?
The IDF have a duty to protect all of Israel and Israeli citizens from terrorists or invaders. You haven't seen any Zionist blowing up and killing Muslims in Jordan, Lebanon, Syria and other places beyond Israel lately, have you?


Originally posted by subz
Our governments are planning a 20 to 30 year campaign with the War on Terror. I think spending years on trying to find peace ala Northern Ireland (the longest running terrorist conflict ever) is a better path to follow than perpetual hyper war. Dont you?


While at the same time, Ireland still feel like it's missing its arm or shoulder, depending on your point of view if you look at the whole island. I noticed that the IRA never extended their terrorist actions beyond that of England over the years. Islamic terrorism, in the guises of al Qaeda and other affiliated groups, is globally extensive. Hamas, on the other hand, operates pretty much exclusively in Gaza and West Bank but they can run their operations from Egypt, Lebanon, Syria and Iran. You cannot negotiate with a group for peaceful reasons and whose goals are to destroy Israel with all possible means and to establish an Islamic Palestinian state. Peace with Israel is NOT an option with Hamas, no matter how you put a spin on it in hope for peace.

[edit on 7/27/2005 by the_oleneo]



posted on Jul, 27 2005 @ 08:44 PM
link   


What Israeli terrorists?


www.terroranalysis.com...




The IDF have a duty to protect all of Israel and Israeli citizens from terrorists or invaders.


The "Isrealis" Currently living in "Isreal" are the invaders according to the people they kicked off their land and are currently living in semi-permanent refugee camps... the Isreali/Palistinian conflict is totally the fault of the West and the Jews.

When you steal someones lands and livelyhood they get pissed and pass down that anger to their children and their childrens children etc.

If say Isreali said New York was the holy land and started to immigrate their on masse and call the state of NY Isreal they start to use international political pressure and terror tactics to get what they want. What would you do? I would fight back...

[edit on 27-7-2005 by sardion2000]



posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 04:03 AM
link   
They are only doing it for PR reasons. If it wasn't for 9/11, they'd still be funded by the yanks and blowing us up. They can take their hollow words and *uck off, cos we all know they don't mean it.

The beauty of it is that hardly anybody in Ireland backs them (militarily speaking) any more, they are a hangover from the 70's and an embarrassment to anybody who considers themselves civilised.

Good news though, anyway...



posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 04:10 AM
link   

I noticed that the IRA never extended their terrorist actions beyond that of England over the years.


Northern Ireland ring any bells?



posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 04:32 AM
link   
Deals going on behind the scenes -



(27/07/2005) Shankill bomber Sean Kelly has been released from Maghaberry prison.
The BBC has been told he has been freed on what is called temporary release pending an application to the Sentence Review Commission.
Kelly was one of two men who left a bomb in a Shankill Road fish shop in 1993. Nine civilians died, as did Kelly's IRA accomplice.

Article

If all this is true, there is still a long way to go. Unionists will want to see 'proof' of decommisioning, but IRA won't release photos. An end to 'criminal activity' has also been demanded by Unionists, which seems to me to be a wee bit unrealistic.

Expect to see much feet-dragging for a while, but in the end, Sinn-Fein/IRA will get their own way. How a Marxist organisation will fit into today's political/economic landscape is another matter however.



posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 05:03 AM
link   

Originally posted by the_oleneo
Funny, they don't get much backing from the Vatican these days, you know?
I can't imagine an Irish Catholic priest or a bishop preaching a fire-n-brimstone sermon upon the Irish Catholics to wage a bloody "jihad" against all of England nowadays, eh?

Does one need the backing of the vatican to fight?
Then you have a small imagination.
They where haveing thier own "jihad" against england and the rest of the UK for that matter....ever heard of the song "go home british soldiers"?




While at the same time, Ireland still feel like it's missing its arm or shoulder, depending on your point of view if you look at the whole island. I noticed that the IRA never extended their terrorist actions beyond that of England over the years.

[edit on 7/27/2005 by the_oleneo]

The IRA has no target outside the UK thats why.
But it has used its funding actions in the USA to back it...



posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 05:15 AM
link   

Originally posted by the_oleneo
I noticed that the IRA never extended their terrorist actions beyond that of England over the years.

I believe the IRA exploded bombs in Germay, albeit outside British army bases, but still not inside England...and some people will say that the three blokes arrested in Colombia weren't exactly there on a sight-seeing trip...oh, and haven't the IRA been linked to a crack shot sniper in the occupied territories?



posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 05:45 AM
link   
This is great news but I live in Northern Ireland and just want to point out that over the last few years while the I.R.A's guns have been more or less silent, the Loyalist paramilitary organisations are still killing innocent catholics and other Loyalists yet no one is asking them to give up their guns. Recently 300 members of the U.V.F went into a housing estate and put members of the L.V.F out of their homes while the police stood by and watched. This came after 2 men were shot dead by the feuding groups. Everyone here knows the protestant paramilitary's are the biggest gangsters and when they feud it is usually an innocent catholic who gets killed. So should people not be asking all the terrorists over here to give up their guns and renounce violence not just one side.



posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 05:59 AM
link   

Originally posted by mzrti
So should people not be asking all the terrorists over here to give up their guns and renounce violence not just one side.

Quite true. I wonder how much leeway the Loyalists are given, seeing as how they must be feeling the pressure now.


CX

posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 06:13 AM
link   

Originally posted by KhieuSamphan

Originally posted by the_oleneo
I noticed that the IRA never extended their terrorist actions beyond that of England over the years.

I believe the IRA exploded bombs in Germay, albeit outside British army bases, but still not inside England...and some people will say that the three blokes arrested in Colombia weren't exactly there on a sight-seeing trip...oh, and haven't the IRA been linked to a crack shot sniper in the occupied territories?


If you are on about the IRA sniper who shot all those soldiers back in the 1990's then yes thats true. I served in Crossmaglen for 2 years and saw that excuse for a human being shoot many soldiers, including mates of mine, for which he got i think around 264 years in total for......then let out a year later under the Good Friday Agreement
I have absoloutely no respect for these people or the people who let them out after carrying out these killings.

I see on the latest Sky News report, they have asked people to "read the words carefully". Also the statement will challenge all parties. In other words it will be back to square one again with them saying they'll stop the violence but won't give up the arms until the government and other parties do this and do that.........can't be doing with this merrygoround any more.

CX.



posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 06:34 AM
link   
IRA soilders have been told to stand down at 4pm and dump ALL WEAPONS...

All soldiers are to pursue aims by politics!!

ALL units have been ordered to dump arms

www.sky.com...

IRA will build and work to build the republic




[edit on 28-7-2005 by infinite]


CX

posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 06:51 AM
link   
Excellent!

We can all go home now then.

Sorry if i don't seem too trusting of this, but i'm sure lots of people will understand.

They've been ordered to dump arms......but where? Probably up in attic ready for the next rainy day as usual.

CX.



posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 06:55 AM
link   

Originally posted by CX
Excellent!

We can all go home now then.

Sorry if i don't seem too trusting of this, but i'm sure lots of people will understand.

They've been ordered to dump arms......but where? Probably up in attic ready for the next rainy day as usual.

CX.


I dont trust them either, my mum who is from N.Ireland doesnt trust them either too, heck no one probably does after what they done



posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 07:03 AM
link   

Originally posted by infinite
IRA soilders have been told to stand down at 4pm and dump ALL WEAPONS...

All soldiers are to pursue aims by politics!!

ALL units have been ordered to dump arms

www.sky.com...

IRA will build and work to build the republic




[edit on 28-7-2005 by infinite]


Let's not glorify these murders. They're not soldiers, they're people who murder 10 yo boys who are out buying birthday cards. They're psycopathic killers linked to a criminal gang - not soldiers.

PIRA have been in the poo since the US (finally!) addressed the NORAID issue and made supporting & fundraising for murderers illegal. They've been running out of weapons and volunteers ever since, plus intelligence & surveillance have improved greatly limiting their options & freedom to operate. To lay down arms now is pure face-saving.

In the spirit of peace we should undertake (unfortunately) not to let 2 PARA have 30 minutes with Martin McGuinness.

The UVF, UDA and RUC (etc) killers are just as bad, just as evil and just as guilty.

Hopefully the way forward will be peaceful but let's not forget all the dead, maimed and terrorised people who've paid the price of 'peace' to date.



posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 07:09 AM
link   
I dont understand how they can go to a political campaign after have decades of terrorism.

We can never forget the terror they caused



posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 07:23 AM
link   
Hmmmmmmmmm



psycopathic killers and 2 Para in the same paragraph.........

makes sense to me



new topics

top topics



 
7
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join