Women, here it is: What's Wrong With Men

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posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 03:00 PM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
Now I work with all men in close quarters and sometimes hostile environments, and I have to say I miss working with the women most days.


I think that we just found the reasoning for your opinion. You work with all male enviornment that is less then comforting. If you worked with men in a more pleasant enviornment or with women in a similar enviornment that you do now don't you think that your opinion would be different?

What I mean to say is that you seem to be painting all men with a wide brush when it is specifically a reaction to an enviornment that the people around you tend to have. These people just happen to be men due to the circumstance.




posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 03:01 PM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher

Certainly, you could not be reffering to me?

In case you are, here is a brief bio:

I am a 33 year old straight male who is a Staff Sergeant in the USAF with 7 &1/2 years in active duty and 7 tours of duty in 2 wars. I am currently Station Captain at Nellis Air Force Base Fire Department, and I'm on lunch break.



then please tell us about area 51 in the ATS forum as they are continually asking about it...




I have read more than a book.


I never called you stupid.. only naive.




While working at the hospital at such a young age most of my co-workers and people who I admired were older women, who taught me much.

Now I work with all men in close quarters and sometimes hostile environments, and I have to say I miss working with the women most days.

So, I assure you, I am neither 16 or a female. As for the radical feminist, I am still undecided.


To be honest mate, I couldn't give a rats @## who you are or what youv'e done in the past. I am sure that you do get on well with women and work in very macho jobs ranging from the armed fores to stripping for women. If I were to be analytical... no I won''t go their purely out of respect for another individuals. However I would say that the impression I got is totally different to that which you would convey and as such you may have to be more self analytical before you feel the need to analytical of others.


[edit on 28/7/05 by Klepto]



posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 03:08 PM
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Originally posted by Klepto




(tell this to the people killed by suicide bombers...)

Your grasp of world history is less informed than mine. This is in no way an insult, the general public simply just is unaware.





Not all men are the same as you have experienced.

Thank God. Trust me, I know all people are good at the core.



does anyone force you to act a certain way?

I am the property of the United States Government, and their actions are the result of the most popular beliefs and ideals of the people that elect our representitives. So, the answer is: Yes, I am forced to act a certain way.


if so then that is your problem.

Thanks for reminding me.


I do what I want as do most other people as long as I do not infringe on the human rights of the people around me. You chose this route all by yourself or you would have used your real name and not "Esoteric Teacher" as your nick on this forum.

Staff Sergeant John P. G., USAF



I feel guilty for writing this but ....DUH!

In the context the statement was intended to reference the fact people have different personalities when dealing with different people. That is to say the same 1 person has defferent personalities when intra-personal relations are most self serving with others, people project themselves different ways.



This is a human trait which derives from that the fact that people are eager to please as nobody wants to be thought of as having no social skills (there is a time and a place to act in certain ways.)

Exactly.




Every individual is entitled to make descisions and bear the brunt of their actions. If you choose to act as you see fit then good for you, you go for it! If other people don't then that (as a human being) is their perogative and you have no right to question it. If you don't like it then do not associate yourself with people like this.


Then people start to generalize and deprive themselves the priviledge of getting to know the better part of who people really are.

Listen, my lunch is over and I'm going to get back to work, I'll be back on ATS in about 4 or 5 hours if you wish to continue. I certainly wouldn't mind. I love thought provoking conversation. Talk to you later.


[edit on 08/12/71 by Esoteric Teacher]



posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 03:13 PM
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Originally posted by Klepto

then please tell us about area 51 in the ATS forum as they are continually asking about it...


No one is truly listening. The truth is the truth can not be subdued or covered up. It is so blatently in front of everyone and in all aspects of all cultures worldwide, and still people are yelling cover-up.



posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 04:04 PM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
Hope this answers some questions of why a man ever treated you wrong or did wrong by you.

What's wrong with men?
FEAR


In seeing this topic for your thread I assumed you really meant, "What's is MORE wrong with men than is wrong with women." I think you're really trying to find out why men treat women wrong (could I say "badly" instead of "wrong" here?) more often than women treat men wrong, is that right? If you're trying to say men treat more wrong than women treat men because men have fear, then your argument would only be true if you're saying men have MORE fear than women do. You should be able to show us why a mans opinion/personality/self includes more fear from the start than a woman's. So far I can only find one experience you have stated that a male has and a female doesn't. It is the following:


Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
Male infants are not born with as much estrogen in their system as women. At the cellular level male infants' cells make an effort to repell mother's estrogen from entering the umbillical cord.


Are you suggesting that a mans personality includes more fear than a woman's because as an infant the baby is repelling estrogen from the umbillical cord? I will admit you might have a logical argument there; however I disagree. I think the male fetus rejects the estrogen naturally and doesn't experience any more fear than a female fetus.

I still think the reason men treat women wrong, if they do, could only be due to an advantage it gave ancient men over the ancient men who did not treat women wrong. This would make them more biologically successful and more common in the present due to the theory of evolution.



posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 04:50 PM
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Originally posted by Fun Gentleman



Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
Male infants are not born with as much estrogen in their system as women. At the cellular level male infants' cells make an effort to repell mother's estrogen from entering the umbillical cord.



Are you suggesting that a mans personality includes more fear than a woman's because as an infant the baby is repelling estrogen from the umbillical cord? I will admit you might have a logical argument there; however I disagree. I think the male fetus rejects the estrogen naturally and doesn't experience any more fear than a female fetus.

So, in effect you admit that the male fetus "naturally" rejects the estrogen. If it is done "naturally" then the command to do so must stem from a "root command" or instinct of sorts for the cells of the male fetus to know that the estrogen may be harmful to them.

Females do not have this struggle while developing in the womb.

Females are genetically compatible with mother's estrogen. So it may stand to reason that men are more physically (at the cellular level) intigrating the command instinct of self preserve differently than what women are required to do so.

So, from the point in the womb when the male gender is decided, men are required to endure something women are not required to endure. To much estrogen could be poisonous/toxic to us at the cellular level, where as women don't have that issue while in the womb.

Consider this:

0 + 0 + 0 + 0 still = 0

0 + 0 to the infinate = 0

If consciousness can be defined as something that can incorporate experience and react to external forces and respond to external forces intelligently ......

Then how can people consider their own cells as not being individual consciousnesses?

How can a whole bunch of cells that fill the criteria of self consciousness, self intelligence, self awareness be considered not to be all these things?

For how can billions of Zero self consciousnesses, Zero self intelligences, Zero self awarenesses add up to only 1?

Then by the beliefs of most, there must be levels of consciousness, levels of self awareness, levels of self intelligence.

Who decides these levels?

The cells of the individual, I would assume. But, if not our own cells, who would we blame?

How can one hold a truth in their left hand, and a truth in their right hand, but when they cuff their hands together to make a bowl, when both truths are added together they have no truth?

If this is possible, then their must be something wrong with the observer who is measuring truth.


I still think the reason men treat women wrong, if they do, could only be due to an advantage it gave ancient men over the ancient men who did not treat women wrong. This would make them more biologically successful and more common in the present due to the theory of evolution.


I like that statement. Definatley worth thinking about.



posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 05:00 PM
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Originally posted by Jonna

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
Now I work with all men in close quarters and sometimes hostile environments, and I have to say I miss working with the women most days.



I think that we just found the reasoning for your opinion. You work with all male enviornment that is less then comforting. If you worked with men in a more pleasant enviornment or with women in a similar enviornment that you do now don't you think that your opinion would be different?

No. I would say working with all women at the hospital for nearly 10 years total was emotionally more stressfull than war. Simply because I got attached to chronically ill dying children and abusive/combative adults with major problems.

Working with all men in war and in major fire scenes is more physically demanding, and on a daily basis, less mentally and emotionally stressfull.



What I mean to say is that you seem to be painting all men with a wide brush when it is specifically a reaction to an enviornment that the people around you tend to have. These people just happen to be men due to the circumstance.


What circumstance is the basis for creating the circumstance of having mostly males in this career field? What have men endured that women haven't endured that better prepare us physically for this type of job?

Social upbringing?
Genetics?
many things may play a role in seperating the sexes on the mental and emotional plane, but physically ....

We (men) still endured something prior to birth that females did not have to. The cellular standoff against our hosts hormones.

[edit on 08/12/71 by Esoteric Teacher]



posted on Aug, 8 2005 @ 01:53 AM
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Originally posted by Jonna

Originally posted by Klepto
Every individual is entitled to make descisions and bear the brunt of their actions. If you choose to act as you see fit then good for you, you go for it! If other people don't then that (as a human being) is their perogative and you have no right to question it. If you don't like it then do not associate yourself with people like this.


You just got a way above for that! I'm going a bit off topic, but you either accept a person for who they are or you don't associate with them. I can't stand people that either attempt to change you or insinuate that you should feel guilt about the choices that one makes.


What defines how a person chooses to act?

Is it not the accumilation of experience?
Is it not the accumilation of information?

How everyone integrates accumilated experience and knowledge soley depends on their conscious state of mind.

For instance:
When you are in a crowded room, having a conversation with one individual, you tend to phase out the background sound. The truth is your brain has recorded every word within earshot, but only subconsciously.

consciously you have chosen to only hear and pay attention to one person, but your ears did continue to hear everything, your brain chose for you what was to be integrated at the conscious level due to your state of mind. You are the one who made the choice to not listen to everyone else simultaniously, but your ears heard it regardless.



posted on Aug, 9 2005 @ 11:14 AM
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I am in my 40s and I like women very much. I have dated older women for most of my life and like them more than the younger women. I actually like the company of women more than most men. I am particular about male company in that what is of value to most men does not interest me.

I am in the shipbuilding industry as a machinist on Submarines and Aircraft Carriers. I have certain special qualifications in this field so I can assure you I know about being fearful and scared or nervous in what I do for a living.

I have occasion to work with women in my job. I am just as particular about the women who work with me as the men. I dont countinance light weights in either sex when I am working. I will get rid of them if they cant hack it..especially when the going gets tough. They need to get going or get gone.!!! Male or Female.

Men and women both work on a concept of fear. It is to me just that women understand and respond to fear socially in very diffrent manner than most men can even understand or comprehend..but it is definitely fear. I have seen it...over and over. Men can be pretty dumb about fear especially in women.

This is why I find your initial post on this thread astonishing. It is a long dissertation meaning very little. It just looks good to science and social engineering types.

By the way ..I am right outside of Langley Air Force Base...the F22s Raptors have finally made it here...and they are flying regularly. ..as I see them often entering and leaving the base. Nice looking planes. Not many of them as of yet but they are getting here as they are being produced.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Aug, 9 2005 @ 11:37 AM
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Originally posted by Jonna

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
Now I work with all men in close quarters and sometimes hostile environments, and I have to say I miss working with the women most days.


I think that we just found the reasoning for your opinion. You work with all male enviornment that is less then comforting. If you worked with men in a more pleasant enviornment or with women in a similar enviornment that you do now don't you think that your opinion would be different?


Opinion or not. Science and facts back up my claim, which is the claim of numerous doctors, including most professors at top universities with any knowledge of the subject matter.

So, the real reasoning for my opinion is hundreds, thousands of years of study.
[qoute]
What I mean to say is that you seem to be painting all men with a wide brush when it is specifically a reaction to an enviornment that the people around you tend to have. These people just happen to be men due to the circumstance.

Ok, I'm going to call bull**** on that.

1) FACT: Everyone's brain works by the "LAW OF ASSOCIATION". This means that you only consciously experience things through your senses if you have already consciously accepted enough truths to permit you to do so. What part of this fact is eluding your thought process?

2) FACT: Your first accepted facts dictate how and in what way you incorporate new information, whether the experience is fully experienced consciously, or not. So, your first accepted truths were?

How do these facts change? Are they truly affected by my opinion or any one elses?



If you worked with men in a more pleasant enviornment or with women in a similar enviornment that you do now don't you think that your opinion would be different?


NO.


"What I mean to say is that you seem to be painting all men with a wide brush when it is specifically a reaction to an enviornment that the people around you tend to have.


No, it is not specifically a reaction to the environments of the people around me. I'm not sure if me reacting to their environments makes sense.




I think that we just found the reasoning for your opinion.


My opinion is irrelevant.
Science and fact is the reasoning. Do you have the capacity to look past my opinion? I can, and have.

[edit on 08/12/71 by Esoteric Teacher]



posted on Aug, 9 2005 @ 12:12 PM
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Here are some more references and sources, quotes, and suggested reading:

www.noetic.org...


RESOURCE: For general information about IONS visit our website: www.noetic.org For
more information about IONS research see www.noetic.org/research.cfm. To find out
about community groups go to: www.noetic.org/community.cfm. To become a member of
IONS go to: www.noetic.org/membership.cfm


[edit on 08/12/71 by Esoteric Teacher]



posted on Aug, 9 2005 @ 12:30 PM
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Esoteric Teacher I am really enjoying this thread, but next time try not to quote the WHOLE article. It makes it confusing to read. Posting the links alone with a small quote would be fine.

Thanks.



posted on Aug, 9 2005 @ 01:55 PM
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Esoteric teacher,

I applaud you for coming out with a theory about what's wrong with men, many women ponder this question when they are either about to enter a relationship, are in a relationship, or just got out of a relationship.

It is a quest to figure out men so women can apply a strategy (as it is in their instinct) to take care of people.

Don't regret posting this article, you are always going to have critics and differences of opinion, everybody wants to be right and seldom few will ever admit that they don't know the answer but only have one or two theories...

Who's to say who's right anyway?

I have a different theory as to why men are the way they are, by instinct they are go getters and aggressive, they have the instinct to 'plant a seed' to continue to carry their blood line as in the animal kingdom, many animals' existence is about spreading a seed(s).

Have you ever watched quest for fire? Where they come up from behind a woman and stick their penis in her without her consent, even if she was screaming? It's not to be mean, it was just their desire to pro create, they had no ethical foundation consisting of right and wrong back then....

Men are still driven by instinct today, as are women, but both can easily allow themselves to get distracted by materialism and ego (pride).

You will always have those who don't care about ego and pro create anyway because they don't think about materialism either...

Instant gratification occurs on a daily basis with millions of people, many of whom do not think about the future or the repercussions of their 'in the moment type act'.

Those are the ones who I find are lower class and bordering poor...
What's wrong with them? Why didn't they secure an income and carrer (after all thats what is the norm of society) My guess is they don't agree or aren't really conscience (or responsible enough to be conscience) of society's expetations.

Apart from getting down to the instinctual nature of men, personal experiences with men will shape a woman's idea of them, and vice versa.

But it's also the woman's fault (so what's wrong with them?) for allowing herself to be subjected to negative experiences... Why didn't she walk away? Why did she try to change him? Was she delusional about the type of personality he was? Refused to accept reality?

Women often live in an unrealistic world, hopeless romatics, waiting for their knight in shining armor to whisk her away in big muscley chiselled arms, to get laid down on a bed of roses and passionatley made love to and carressed all over for hours on end...

Not under 4 minutes...

What's wrong with women? What's wrong with men?

If people could understand that stereotyping everyone is an easier thing to do then understanding not everyone is the same, but when you associate yourself with a group of certain types of men, group think occurs, the mentality spreads, giving you the false notion that all men are like that (like at your work).

Some men are just as hopelessly romatic as women are but don't want to admit it.

Some men want a women who is going to tend to house hold chores and open her legs when he comes home from work or after dinner or whatever.

Some men want an equal because they think women are fun to be around, sometimes more so then men, because they can actually be themselves and not worry about being manly around their counterparts.

Some men want to degrade women because it makes them feel superior and macho (more like an animal and barbaric)...

And some men just don't care and want to co exist with the opposite sex because that's what their instinct tells them (men are supposed to be with women, settle, have a family, and live in peace) while living in modern day society full aware of general ethics and proper conduction of mannerisms.

And some men like like packing fudge...


There are more men examples but you get the gist.

--------------------------

I for one had bad run in's with men, making me come to the false conclusion that all men suck, but I take personal responsibility because I was living in a dream world. Thinking hot men with strong sexy bodies (that i meet at bars) are going to conduct themselves the way I expect them to... When that didn't happen right away, i'd give them more chances, hoping that the more they got to know me, the more they would quit "acting" and be "real" , when in fact how they were acting was actually them being real...
------------------------

It was just the phase that those guys were in... Men change as do women, I find the more you get older and wiser the more you learn how to pick a potential special someone (if you are conscience and introspect for reasons of self improvement).

Point in fact, you very much associate yourself with people who have similar traits as yourself whether you are conscience of it or not.
It's easier to see the other persons characteristics then it is to see yourself, but just look at them and you will realise that birds of a feather flock together.


A vain person will be with a vain person

An intellectual romantic will find an intellectual romantic if they are conscience of this.

If you are a dreamer (negative and postive ones) be careful as you are not as grounded as you think you are, your head is somewhere other then in reality, you are either naive or cynical of someone you may not know so well yet.

If you are a creative spirit you will find someone with similar creative characteristics despite character flaws that may occur later on.

and so on.



posted on Aug, 9 2005 @ 03:18 PM
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Originally posted by TrueLies
Esoteric teacher,

I applaud you for coming out with a theory about what's wrong with men, many women ponder this question when they are either about to enter a relationship, are in a relationship, or just got out of a relationship.


It's not my theory, it is facts based upon other peoples works.



Don't regret posting this article, you are always going to have critics and differences of opinion, everybody wants to be right and seldom few will ever admit that they don't know the answer but only have one or two theories...

If people choose to disagree with hundreds of leading doctors and scientists, they have that right.


Who's to say who's right anyway?

The individuals who are judging the hundreds of leading doctors and scientists will either choose to believe thier studies, or disregard them. So, I guess the individual mind decides who is right or wrong, but still doing it with a mind that is subjected to learning only through the "Law of Association."


I have a different theory as to why men are the way they are, by instinct they are go getters and aggressive, they have the instinct to 'plant a seed' to continue to carry their blood line as in the animal kingdom, many animals' existence is about spreading a seed(s).

Closest they can come to fullfilling the genetic command of "Self Preservation" while enduring mortallity.


Men are still driven by instinct today, as are women, but both can easily allow themselves to get distracted by materialism and ego (pride).

I think pride is the offspring of courage, and courage is the offspring of fear, fear being the only emotional (neuro-peptide) a newborn emits during birth, because no other emotional message would serve the infants already accepted need of "self preserve". Fear is what the infant feels, because it is what is most self-serving, knowing only the instinctual command of self preservation and the fact they exist. No other experiences or memories exist to cope with being born, but those neuro-peptides that are associated with victimization.

Sometimes women endure abussive relationships, primarily because their cells have become addicted to the neuro-peptides associated with victimization.



Instant gratification occurs on a daily basis with millions of people, many of whom do not think about the future or the repercussions of their 'in the moment type act'.


Sometimes, people don't even realize they have a choice. But, I agree with your point.


Those are the ones who I find are lower class and bordering poor...
What's wrong with them? Why didn't they secure an income and carrer (after all thats what is the norm of society) My guess is they don't agree or aren't really conscience (or responsible enough to be conscience) of society's expetations.


They don't know themselves.



Apart from getting down to the instinctual nature of men, personal experiences with men will shape a woman's idea of them, and vice versa.




But it's also the woman's fault (so what's wrong with them?) for allowing herself to be subjected to negative experiences... Why didn't she walk away? Why did she try to change him? Was she delusional about the type of personality he was? Refused to accept reality?


She was chemically dependant on the neuro-peptides that deliver the cellular command of vicitmization.

The same thing is wrong with them. I know this sounds wierd, but if I had posted a thread stating "Here is what's wrong with Women", or even tried to argue the point, too many walls would have been raised. There are slight differences, however. Men were not compatible with mother's estrogen. We had to fight in the womb at the cellular level, women did not.


Women learn the same way as men, just incorporate those experiences in a way that allows them to be more intuitive to the nature of who others are and how they think. They assume men do the same, when most men do not try to really understand themselves, or other.

How can anyone truly understand anyone else until they know themselves?
How can anyone exhibit hate and fear if they truly knew themselves?




Women often live in an unrealistic world, hopeless romatics, waiting for their knight in shining armor to whisk her away in big muscley chiselled arms, to get laid down on a bed of roses and passionatley made love to and carressed all over for hours on end...


Hi, my name is John, and I like to think of unrealistic worlds as being real.
Did I mention my name is John, and um ..... hello.



Not under 4 minutes...

Ummm ... Hi, my name is John.



What's wrong with women? What's wrong with men?


A man tried to tell you what's wrong with men, let a women try to tell us what's wrong with women.




If people could understand that stereotyping everyone is an easier thing to do then understanding not everyone is the same, but when you associate yourself with a group of certain types of men, group think occurs, the mentality spreads, giving you the false notion that all men are like that (like at your work).



But, at the core of what forms their opinions and attitudes, and self are the same experiences all men started off with. Therefore the "Law of Association" dictates that how they first integrated stimulas from their senses should have been the same. If not, then the "Law of Association" would be wrong. And, if the "Law of Association" is wrong, no one can learn. We simply cannot accumilate memories without the "Law of Association.



Some men are just as hopelessly romatic as women are but don't want to admit it.

Hi, my name is John. I am a hopelessly romantic man. Empathy = Romance


Some men want a women who is going to tend to house hold chores and open her legs when he comes home from work or after dinner or whatever.

It takes all kinds .....


Some men want an equal because they think women are fun to be around, sometimes more so then men, because they can actually be themselves and not worry about being manly around their counterparts.


Hi, my name is John. Not worried about being manly, as long as being manly doesn't include having to be like what is described in the last quote.


Some men want to degrade women because it makes them feel superior and macho (more like an animal and barbaric)...

extreme overt reactions to how they have chosen to incorporate their experiences throughout life. Sure, they may have had harsher experiences that got them to this point, but they had the same state of mind as most every other infant, and started at the same point as a man you describe in your last two quotes.




--------------------------

I for one had bad run in's with men, making me come to the false conclusion that all men suck, but I take personal responsibility because I was living in a dream world. Thinking hot men with strong sexy bodies (that i meet at bars) are going to conduct themselves the way I expect them to... When that didn't happen right away, i'd give them more chances, hoping that the more they got to know me, the more they would quit "acting" and be "real" , when in fact how they were acting was actually them being real...
------------------------


Please, don't give up on men. We won't give up on you.


Don't sell women short. Have had plenty of experiences, none good or bad, ironically both, because I choose to see those past relationships as such. But, all in all I'd say they were good, however some of them may not.



posted on Aug, 11 2005 @ 03:55 PM
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Peoples' (this includes men) actions and behaviors are overt manifestations of their beliefs and states of mind.

Our beliefs and states of mind are based upon how we choose to integrate information. The information we integrate must follow patterns of association when forming neuro-nets (relationships between brain cells) which are how we remember memories, how memories are recalled, which may not be what truly happened, but how we memorized it consciously which is dependant on our state of mind. Our state of mind creates ignorance, but the truth lies within the sub-conscious which incorporates everything we witness.



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 09:16 AM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
In case you are, here is a brief bio:

I am a 33 year old straight male who is a Staff Sergeant in the USAF with 7 &1/2 years in active duty and 7 tours of duty in 2 wars. I am currently Station Captain at Nellis Air Force Base Fire Department, and I'm on lunch break.



for 2 years inbetween 15 and 26 I was employed at a slaughter house for hogs, and also spent 7 weekends as a male dancer.

Don't knock me for the male stripping, the money was good, but that was 11 or 12 years ago.



I just realised how shallow I am putting those two together..

[no offence meant]

On a serious note.. I agree that fear is a problem with many males.. not sure about the fetus/birth thing though. I think it is nature vs nurture.. I've noticed people behave differently with when they find out their gender.. they'll talk 'sweeter' to girls than boys. I've had alot of trouble finding even gender nuetral cards for babies in the past.. usually the boy card will have a joke about footy games, driving cars etc.. the girls will have sugary things about them being princesses. Gender programing starts very early without people even realising it. I think the old 'mucho' thing applies to males. If a little girl scrapes her knee and cries.. she might get more sympathy than the the boy who might get chastised for crying. I think the fear for many men is loss of control.. they are expected to be emotion brick walls.. [tough, resilient] women are more encouraged to be emotional sponges[nurturing, empathic]. I realise hormones play are huge role in gender behaviour but I think that coupled with these cultural expectations can cause damage to both males and females.

[edit on 14-8-2005 by riley]



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 10:19 AM
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Originally posted by riley


I just realised how shallow I am putting those two together..

[no offence meant]


No offense taken. But, I'm not sure what the point of the quotes was. No Worries, though.

About the rest of your statement concerning:
Cultural Expectations.


Gender programing starts very early without people even realising it. I think the old 'mucho' thing applies to males. If a little girl scrapes her knee and cries.. she might get more sympathy than the the boy who might get chastised for crying. I think the fear for many men is loss of control.. they are expected to be emotion brick walls.. [tough, resilient] women are more encouraged to be emotional sponges[nurturing, empathic]. I realise hormones play are huge role in gender behaviour but I think that coupled with these cultural expectations can cause damage to both males and females.


I strongly agree with most of this. However, at some point the individual should be responsible for their own behaviors, actions, beliefs, and ideals. Sure, society as a whole does encourage cultural expectations, but does that make people less accountible and/or less responsible by believing "it was the culture that made me this way?"

I'll readily support your arguement that cultural expectations play an overwhelming role in how a person views life, but in the end: It is their life. How can someone else assume to be responsible/accountible for their deeds, be them good, or bad?

Each individual should re-access their values, their core opinions, their ideals, and not permit this world to dictate who they ought to be. People should be who they are. And know the rest of us aren't perfect either.



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 11:52 AM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
No offense taken. But, I'm not sure what the point of the quotes was. No Worries, though.

Men in uniform joke.


I strongly agree with most of this. However, at some point the individual should be responsible for their own behaviors, actions, beliefs, and ideals.

Should be.. however many aren't even aware that there are problems, or a too 'comfortable' with them.. hence why you have generations repeating cycles. They haven't got the tools to alter their own perceptions.. or to become self empowered.

Sure, society as a whole does encourage cultural expectations, but does that make people less accountible and/or less responsible by believing "it was the culture that made me this way?"

I don't know.. it is the culture that sculpts individuals.. and if they are not directly influenced it they will be influence by role models who are heavily influenced by culture anyway. It is hard to swim against the current for many.

I'll readily support your arguement that cultural expectations play an overwhelming role in how a person views life, but in the end: It is their life. How can someone else assume to be responsible/accountible for their deeds, be them good, or bad?

Well if I were in the media for example.. say writing for a teenager's mag.. I'd be certain not to put diets etc. and anorexic models in it. I'd also try be a healthy role model. Given the foundations for someone's personality are created during childhood.. it's understandable people have dificulty changing. It can be like trying to unburn a cake [bad metephore] for some.

Each individual should re-access their values, their core opinions, their ideals, and not permit this world to dictate who they ought to be. People should be who they are. And know the rest of us aren't perfect either.

I completely agree.. and I try. The problem is that it's fairly easy to change concious thought.. but changing the unconcious behaviours is difficult. The underlying things that effect life decisions. One might go through a valuable lesson.. and make the right choice.. but set themselves on the path of repeating the same mistake the next time without even realising.



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 02:36 PM
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Yall, seriously, get off Estoteric Teacher's back. Apparently the dude's done some reaserch into this and knows what he's talking about for the most part. Yeah, some of the stuff he wrote is questionable, and theres some stuff I don't really agree with... but really, you don't have to be so, eh... whats the word I'm looking for... bitchy about it.



posted on Aug, 21 2005 @ 04:46 PM
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Fear in males??

you posted"

"On a serious note.. I agree that fear is a problem with many males.. not sure about the fetus/birth thing though. I think it is nature vs nurture.. "

This is a huge problem in females too. It is just manifested differently and in a social way unvisible to the average male. Way to dumb alot of the males are.

The most common fear I've noticed in females at any age is the clock striking midnight and turning into a pumkin Cinderella ...before getting life locked in and before the biological clock closes life out for them.

"Neuro peptide" that Esoteric Teacher. The media and peer groups are full of psuedo ways to give one another chance/cycle at artifically going another round while really offering so little.

Fear is in both genders and for different reasons...not the scientific mumbo jumbo you speak about. It looks good in print and in multitudes of "scientific journals" but it is selfish motivations ...that win out ..at the end of the day.
The esoteric part is that much knowlege of these motivations is hidden from public view...only one profile is shown publically. Not the other side of the coin or profile..which is the real one. People have to develope high degrees of skills in order to see the other side of the coin or profile...without the other partner volenteering to turn the coin or profile over. No scientific/esoteric mumbo jumbo needed here.

Thanks,
Orangetom





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