Women, here it is: What's Wrong With Men

The following information is not just my opinion, but backed by the majority of researchers in the tops of their fields to include neurobiology, psychology, neurochemestry, and the list goes on.

Hope this answers some questions of why a man ever treated you wrong or did wrong by you.

What's wrong with men?
FEAR

Everyone's brain pretty much works the same way. Almost all of our brains (male and female) operate under what is called the law of association. The process of integrating and learning and making new neuro-cellular connections is referred to as the "Law of Association".

what this process refers to is the idea that the conscious experiences you record and integrate as true and accepted fact must first be able to connect to certain truths that you have already accepted as fact.

In other words there must be a base for which more complex ideas and cognitive (knowledge) thought can attaach to.

for example: In order to fully comprehend the meaning of FIVE (5), you must first accept that 1, 2, 3, and 4 are truth and fact, or the concept of 5 may not be fully comprehended by you.

Focus on the "Law of Association" and consider what a man's opinion/personality/self/ was at the start.

The first truths accepted by a man dictate what path he begins from, and hence the first accepted truths are the seed of his opinion and personality.

First truths:

1) The genetic disposition of "Self Preserve". Self preserve means what? Self = self'
Pre = before
Serve = serve
therefore the first truth is integrated as self before I serve. This instinct is different in men, because at the cellular level we had to make some defense against mother's estrogen, which was not totally compatible with our system.

2) The second truth is that they are aware they exist. They know "I Am", even before they know the language of their culture.

3) FEAR. Consider what takes place during birth and the effect it has on the infant. They are squeezed and endure pain. They are cold for the first time. Their intake source is severed and their bodies cells and sytems kick in to work right.

Not that I have done any of these things, but consider how different animals' young react as newborns or youngsters.
if you attack most puppies, they will usually cower and defensively protect themselves. If you attack a kitten it will usually hiss and raise a claw and appear to be in attack mode.
These are how they react to danger as a result of "self preserve".
However, an infant can only cry and feel fear.

4) Then someone picks them up, cleans them off and dries them off. They are then usually laid down on mother's chest. And they then accept the 4th truth they will know: That they are not alone.

To Recap:
A male's opinion and personality usually begin with:

1) I am self before I serve
2) I am/I exist
3) I am afraid/Fear
4) I am not alone

The overiding first emotion experienced by most male's is: FEAR

What is the opposite of love?

Hate?

Let me pose this question:

How can you truly hate something unless you aren't first fearfull that it may take something/someone you love away from you.

Fear may very well be what the internal response is to knowing something/someone has the potential to remove or deminish something in your life that you love.

Hate may be the label of the external reaction and behaviours of feeling fear.

Therefor fear may very well be the opposite of Love, since hate is the response to fear.

FEAR is what is wrong with men. All negative actions stem from it.

It is just their pride and hate that mask the source of their pride and hate.

Does this make sense to many females? Many males?

Please state gender (if not obvious) and let me know your thoughts.

constructive criticism is welcome, as are destructive attempts, just let me know why you either agree or dissagree with this thread.

Thanks in advance for your contributions. It may be a day or so before I'm back on ATS.

Women are great

nice 1...fancy a pint?

I'm a guy.

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
The overiding first emotion experienced by most male's is: FEAR

Why? You say that men are jerks because they are afraid, but you never explain why you think men are more fearful as babies than women are, you just say it is so with no proof, nor reasoning.

If I were a girl trying to explain why guys are jerks, I would probably argue that it's because being mean helped ancient men survive and breed easily somehow. I might argue that there were once nice guys but the jerks stopped them from reproducing or living.

Originally posted by Fun Gentleman
Why?

I'm going to have to completely agree with you. All the reasons given are just as common in men as in women. Besides that the root of all problems in an individual stem from the Ego as they are individual to that person hence Ego. Fear is merely an excuse for the Ego to react in a certain way and not the root of the source. It is just a convienent label.

I fail to see the logical theory that the original poster is going for.

I agree Jonna, for the simple fact also that men and women start out as a basic template (the reason men have nips) and therefore we all start out life the same when born regardless of being male or female. The only changes that occur may be through puberty or through experiences in life. The reason people are the way they are (in my opinion) is more to do with suffering some kind of neurosis or an inflated ego.

Originally posted by Fun Gentleman
I'm a guy.

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
The overiding first emotion experienced by most male's is: FEAR

Why? You say that men are jerks ......

I never said men are jerks. Thanks for the input, though. Sorry you chose to see what was never stated. I wonder what the source of your personal delusion was?

but the title in itself "whats wrong with men" does denote some elements of chauvinism and is derogatory.

Imagine if I started up a thread "whats wrong with women".. for you to believe that you can understand a concept you will never experience is questionable. You could only empathise but never understand why stupid statments like this irritate fellas. So ask yourself who is REALLY delusional...

The only conclusion you should draw from this (no offense intended) is that the problem most men have is that they do not suffer fools gladly, and are easily aggravated at blind statments.



[edit on 28/7/05 by Klepto]

Originally posted by Jonna

Originally posted by Fun Gentleman
Why?

All the reasons given are just as common in men as in women. Besides that the root of all problems in an individual stem from the Ego as they are individual to that person hence Ego. Fear is merely an excuse for the Ego to react in a certain way and not the root of the source. It is just a convienent label.

I fail to see the logical theory that the original poster is going for.

The logical theory intended is based upon the accepted fact that everyone's brain is subject to abiding by the law of association.

That is to say: Everyone is only permitted to accept experiences consciously only if their pre-existing accepted truths permit them to do so.

Everyone only learns something as an accepted fact if that new experience or knowledge can attach to already existing experience or knowledge.

Thus, a logical question as to what is causing men's actions and behaviors to be what they are is to ask:

What were the first accepted truths that men started with?

Instinct (the knowledge passed on genetically by our ancestors) may be where our first truths start. Seems logical to me to take a look at knowledge and truths that our brain had no choice but to accept. Truths from our ancestors that we had no choice but to accept in order to survive infancy.

[qoute]
Besides that the root of all problems in an individual stem from the Ego as they are individual to that person hence Ego.

Seems logical to assume that the ego is in fact subject to the law of association. Isn't the ego still the physical nuero links of your brain cells? Are they not forming patterns of recognition?

Fear is merely an excuse for the Ego to react in a certain way and not the root of the source. It is just a convienent label.

I agree with the first part about fear merely being an excuse for the Ego to react a certain way.

As for the root of the source of fear:

What forms everyones' opinions is at the core/source/root: The first few truths they accept as true.

Humans appear to be emotional creatures. That seems to be the whole purpose behind the hypo-thalmus and neuro-peptides.

The first emotion most people experience is usually fear.

Originally posted by Fun Gentleman
I'm a guy.

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
The overiding first emotion experienced by most male's is: FEAR

Why? You say that men are jerks because they are afraid, but you never explain why you think men are more fearful as babies than women are, you just say it is so with no proof, nor reasoning.

I never explain why I think men are more fearful as babies than women are primarily because I never said I think men are more fearful as babies than women are.

I offered no proof or reasoning to back up this claim, because I never made
it.

You say that men are jerks because they are afraid, but you never explain why you think men are more fearful as babies than women are, you just say it is so with no proof, nor reasoning.

you slanderous liar!

Looks like you've been thinking about this for a long time.
Whats wrong with you?

Originally posted by Klepto
I agree Jonna, for the simple fact also that men and women start out as a basic template (the reason men have nips) and therefore we all start out life the same when born regardless of being male or female.

Male infants are not born with as much estrogen in their system as women. At the cellular level male infants' cells make an effort to repell mother's estrogen from entering the umbillical cord.

male and female infants are not born as similar basic templates. One gender usually has a penis and the other gender does not.

you are assuming that all conclusions that MEN have are based around experiences that are the same which is not true. MEN and WOMEN alike can come to a realisation that something can be perceived to be true without exeriencing it through trust of a known source. I have never been to Australia but believe it exists as I trust the information I have been provided with. In the same token, I trust that the law of association is correct because the source of the information I regard to be trustworthy.
To arrive at a conclusion about a subject regardless of what it is you would need to follow a process that would allow you to come to a true conclusion. This I accept as this is a simple and logical thought process and is what is generally referred to as learning through experience. But to state that this is a concept that is perceived differently between men and women is naive.

You cannot base your experience with men being bad purely being because men have fear. By the same token Women have fear and men have courage but do not base all there actions and thought processes on this emotion. Humans are emotion driven beings but we are beings of individual nature and therefore cannot be catagorised in the manner which you state.

The first emotion most people experience is usually fear.

by denoting usually you imply that there are cases where this may not oocur which shows weakness in your statment. At the age of infancy, people are more reactive and learn the concept of emotion as we develope. To state that fear is something that all men soley experience at birth and therefore has a knock on effect for the development of the male individual is incredibly ignorant.

I am not trying to offend you but I do believe that you have taken a perfectly good theory and misinterpreted it.

I beleive that a 16year girl has read a book or spoken to someone far more intellectual that herself and is slowly getting herself into a "tizzy"

Can anybody say "radical feminist"?

Originally posted by spacedoubt
Looks like you've been thinking about this for a long time.
Whats wrong with you?

Trying to quantify why people have been permitting society to live in a paradigm that has not allowed for 7 consecutive days without war, killing, and destruction throughout 7,000 years of recorded/written history.

Since men seem to be the ones at the top of most governments throughout the past 7,000 years .....

what's wrong with me? World leaders actions and behaviours that stem from the fear they have, and aggressively act out with acts of hate to seeming defend whatever it is they are fearfull they may loose by not doing so.

Further more, what is wrong with me is the every individual in this world that are driven to raise such enormous barriers as to not let anyone see them for who they truly are. Also what is wrong with me is the mentality of those who use people as they have been used.

The end result is numerous societies in which every individual wears certain "masks" nad exhibit false identities for such lengths of time they usually forget who they wanted to be.

People seem to have different personalities. That is to say they seem to act one wat towards their parents, a different way towards their boss, a differnet way towards their teachers, a different way towards their subordinates, a different way towards their children, a different way toward their co-workers, a different way towards their neighbors, a different way towards their lovers ......... and the list goes on.

People tend to feel they have to live up to the expectations of others in order to fit in. A self preserve mechanism of sorts that they outwardly act like someone they really aren't.

Why?

Fear of not being accepted as they are.

When eventually one day they will find all they are at the core of who they are is fear of not being accepted for who they are.

What's wrong with men? Women.

At least the ones that try and figure them out and solve all their 'problems.".

Fear the biggest drive? No.
Sex is number one.

And our brains work the same but what drives them is different. To illustrate, a question was asked.

What would turn you on the most, a naked partner or partner doing housework?

Most men said naked partner.
Most women said partner doing housework.

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher

Since men seem to be the ones at the top of most governments throughout the past 7,000 years .....

Margeret Thatcher (UK Prime minister)
Cleopatra (Egypt)
Queen Elizabeth
etc...

what's wrong with me? World leaders actions and behaviours that stem from the fear they have, and aggressively act out with acts of hate to seeming defend whatever it is they are fearfull they may loose by not doing so.

(tell this to the people killed by suicide bombers...)

Further more, what is wrong with me is the every individual in this world that are driven to raise such enormous barriers as to not let anyone see them for who they truly are. Also what is wrong with me is the mentality of those who use people as they have been used.

I think you have had a bad experience... do not tar all MEN with the same brush. Not all men are the same as you have experienced.

The end result is numerous societies in which every individual wears certain "masks" nad exhibit false identities for such lengths of time they usually forget who they wanted to be.

does anyone force you to act a certain way? if so then that is your problem.. I do what I want as do most other people as long as I do not infringe on the human rights of the people around me. You chose this route all by yourself or you would have used your real name and not "Esoteric Teacher" as your nick on this forum.

People seem to have different personalities.

I feel guilty for writing this but ....DUH!

That is to say they seem to act one wat towards their parents, a different way towards their boss, a differnet way towards their teachers, a different way towards their subordinates, a different way towards their children, a different way toward their co-workers, a different way towards their neighbors, a different way towards their lovers ......... and the list goes on.

This is because the people who do this are being polite. People act depending upon the surroundings they are in out of courtesy. You think people act the same in a bar with their friends as they do in the work place? forget it! there is a time for professionalism and a time for relaxing. Peope are entitlted to be multi-facetted if need be. This is a human trait which derives from that the fact that people are eager to please as nobody wants to be thought of as having no social skills (there is a time and a place to act in certain ways.)

People tend to feel they have to live up to the expectations of others in order to fit in. A self preserve mechanism of sorts that they outwardly act like someone they really aren't.

People are this way because they do not wish to offend other individuals. This is all part of having social skills. You have to make allowances that other people may have differing opinions and beliefs to your own and out of courtesy show them respect by acting accordingly. If you do not then that is your decision. This is the basis of social skill which society holds and if you do not wish to adhere to it then nobody is forcing you to. However, if you fail to be consiencious then you will end up being a very lonely person as people as individuals will aways have conflicting idealisms.. thats what makes us human.

Fear of not being accepted as they are.

When eventually one day they will find all they are at the core of who they are is fear of not being accepted for who they are.

Do what thou wil shall be the whole of the law - A. Crowley

Every individual is entitled to make descisions and bear the brunt of their actions. If you choose to act as you see fit then good for you, you go for it! If other people don't then that (as a human being) is their perogative and you have no right to question it. If you don't like it then do not associate yourself with people like this.

Originally posted by Klepto
you are assuming that all conclusions that MEN have are based around experiences that are the same which is not true.

At the core or center of their human experience, I do believe they are the same. therefor, whatever experiences they accumilate are still attached neurologically and congitivley to the same pre-existing acepted truths.

MEN and WOMEN alike can come to a realisation that something can be perceived to be true without exeriencing it through trust of a known source.

Exactly. They can only form these opinions, however, because of pre-existing accepted truths that permit them to accept consciously these new tidbits of information.

I have never been to Australia but believe it exists as I trust the information I have been provided with. In the same token, I trust that the law of association is correct because the source of the information I regard to be trustworthy.

Because the experiences you have not chosen to deny yourself. You can only accept that Australia exists because of the pre-existing truths you have already chosen to accept.

To arrive at a conclusion about a subject regardless of what it is you would need to follow a process that would allow you to come to a true conclusion.

Yes.

This I accept as this is a simple and logical thought process and is what is generally referred to as learning through experience.

But, you have accepted truths that were not incorporated through experience, at least not your experiences. Hence: Instincts.

But to state that this is a concept that is perceived differently between men and women is naive.

It's not naive if you are paying attention to the differences in the way women and men think. There must be a source at the core of our minds, the center of the law of association that has made us somehow interpret and intigrate knowledge and experiences differently, whether out of neccesity or otherwise.

You cannot base your experience with men being bad purely being because men have fear.

logic dictates that the cellular command encoded into DNA would not exist if it were not for fear, or visa-versa.

By the same token Women have fear and men have courage but do not base all there actions and thought processes on this emotion.

Women have fear, and men have courage? Courage cannot exist without fear. For then it would just be an outwardly measurable action performed by someone who was ignorant of the danger they were facing.

Certainly you are not implying men don't have fear, and women don't have courage. (I didn't take your statement that way, just curious of the choice of words in the order you presented them)

Humans are emotion driven beings but we are beings of individual nature and therefore cannot be catagorised in the manner which you state.

The similarities far out weigh the differences. I respect your view on this, I just dissagree with individuals nature not being able to be catagorised with the other 11 billion+ people on the planet.

If everyone chose to hold themselves in seperate regard from others they would in effect be living a life in which it was them against the other 11 billion+ other people on the planet.

The odds would not be in their favor to support individuality over the whole of humanity and the end result would be the emotional accumilation of just more people becoming the manifestation of their fears and hates.

The first emotion most people experience is usually fear.

by denoting usually you imply that there are cases where this may not oocur which shows weakness in your statment. At the age of infancy, people are more reactive and learn the concept of emotion as we develope. To state that fear is something that all men soley experience at birth and therefore has a knock on effect for the development of the male individual is incredibly ignorant.

I am not trying to offend you but I do believe that you have taken a perfectly good theory and misinterpreted it.

Originally posted by Klepto
Every individual is entitled to make descisions and bear the brunt of their actions. If you choose to act as you see fit then good for you, you go for it! If other people don't then that (as a human being) is their perogative and you have no right to question it. If you don't like it then do not associate yourself with people like this.

You just got a way above for that! I'm going a bit off topic, but you either accept a person for who they are or you don't associate with them. I can't stand people that either attempt to change you or insinuate that you should feel guilt about the choices that one makes.

Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander
What's wrong with men? Women.

What would turn you on the most, a naked partner or partner doing housework?

Most men said naked partner.
Most women said partner doing housework.

Then perhaps there could be a comprimise:

How about a naked partner doing housework!!

Originally posted by Klepto
I beleive that a 16year girl has read a book or spoken to someone far more intellectual that herself and is slowly getting herself into a "tizzy"

Can anybody say "radical feminist"?

Certainly, you could not be reffering to me?

In case you are, here is a brief bio:

I am a 33 year old straight male who is a Staff Sergeant in the USAF with 7 &1/2 years in active duty and 7 tours of duty in 2 wars. I am currently Station Captain at Nellis Air Force Base Fire Department, and I'm on lunch break.

Prior to joining the Air Force:

age 15 to 26 I was employed as a CNA/Lead CNA Shift Supervisor for a "mental ward", a geriatric ward, but spent most of my time working with developmentally dissabled pediatrics (children).

I have a degree in Fire Sciences, an EMT-I, and my basics for nursing out of the way.

I have read more than a book.

for 2 years inbetween 15 and 26 I was employed at a slaughter house for hogs, and also spent 7 weekends as a male dancer.

Don't knock me for the male stripping, the money was good, but that was 11 or 12 years ago.

While working at the hospital at such a young age most of my co-workers and people who I admired were older women, who taught me much.

Now I work with all men in close quarters and sometimes hostile environments, and I have to say I miss working with the women most days.

So, I assure you, I am neither 16 or a female. As for the radical feminist, I am still undecided.