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A summary of 6, 000 years (a Biblical Hypothesis)

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Urn

posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 06:12 AM
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Originally posted by jake1997 actually

you were supposed to act interested and then go and investigate the theory for yourself. My recollection from memory (talk to my wife about that) will not do any theory justice.

When you read the theory, then shoot it down. If you dont, then your not going to convince a large part of the audience.
Remember...this one is within both science and the bible


why bother, when this:

Originally posted by jake1997 God created the universe and the earth first. When God made the stars, the universe was actually smaller. (there are several verses where God talks about stretching out the universe). So then....

Time near the center of the universe moves faster then time on the outer rim. So when God created the stars and in an instant stretched out the universe...the light was in instant view of earth

pretty much debunks itself?...

[edit on 28-7-2005 by Urn]




posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 06:41 AM
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Some time ago there was a Bishop Usher who stated that the Earth "started" in 4004 BC. I have never seen what his source was for that statement. My take would be that "something" "new-age-starting" would have happened 6000 years ago.



posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 06:52 AM
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People say the Bible should not be taken literally and both evolution and creation was part of the same process. It could have been and maybe with how long it takes light to travel across the universe as such does not really mean it took as long as we think by using our measurements.

For example God created man ready made without growth or learning for a language, the trees were ready made. If the trees had growth rings then God could have made everything set up within a few seconds and gave the trees an artificial growth signature a bit like the universe and its expanse.

Some people order ready assembled furniture some would prefer furniture that you put together and go through all that trouble. Some may not fit into the door so it has to come in bits.
All God needed to do is create vast distances is say one point x is length and one point height is y and depth is z and like building a cube. And all the rules that apply to that cube in terms of time and distance travelled by light are already reconfigured as man was.

It still sounds inconclusive to some and ultimately it’s down to faith and the book is still open.



posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 10:32 AM
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Ignorance is bliss as long as faith rules the mind over matter.

Good example of the teachings and contortions created by creationist and young earthers believer.

We should just go ahead and teach this nice put together theory in our already down grade school system in this country.

Heck let use the bible as science, history and philosophy subjects.

Everything else is just but lies.

Deny ignorance or better yet get educated.@@:



posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 05:22 AM
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in reply to marg.

SAT scores went down ever since evolution was introduced into the school system, they had to dumb down the test to make the students look smarter. lets just put that in the schools.

The school shootings at columbine HS was done by evolutionist. they did the shooting on hitlers birthday on purpose.

they shot Isaiah Shoels just because he was black, hitler thought that the black were inferior along with the jews, hitler actually thought that he was speeding up the process of natural selection, he thought he was helping mankind get ahead.

Cassie Bernall was shot because she was a christian, along with Rachel Scott for the same reason.

Kip Kinkle is another one, he killed his own parents 2 other classmates and he shot 26 other students. why? during his questioning Kip said, "if there was a God, he wouldnt let me feel the way I do, there is no God only hate."

Joseph Stalin ordered the execution of 14.700 polish POWs. Why?
Hitler ordered the execution of nearly 6 million Jews and plus otheres. Why?
Pol Pot ordered the execution of more than 1/3 of his own population. Why?

Stalin, Hitler and Pot all thought they were doing the world a favor by eliminating the infereor.
in the 1800s the australian aborigines were rounded up like cows and shot just so their heads could be used in museums. Why?

Darwin said in his book on page 229. "often a cold shudder has run through me and I have asked myself whether I may have devoted myself to a fantasy." even he questioned his own belief.

the georgia guidestones say to keep the world population under 1/2 billion. the world is at 6 billion or more as far as I know. which could be the reason the cure for cancer hasnt been revealed by the FDA or any other associations. Bill Clinton and Ted Turner and many other "big" people have stated that elimination of a great number of the worlds population by at least 95% would be ideal. why would that be ideal?

Evolution is not going to save our world people, kids used to act a little better when creation was taught in school, kids used to get in trouble for shooting spitballs across the room, now they get in trouble for shooting people or such threats to do so.

yeah there was evil in the world before evolution became popular, however, violent crimes, STDs, # of pregnant teens ages 10-14, ect. have skyrocketed ever since evolution was introduced. it seems like a lot of good in the world has disappeared and a lot of bad has appeared.
all by one phylosophy.

The bible does not lead to a currupt society. it leads to order and self-control. why wouldnt you want that?



posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 09:45 AM
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And your post is also and example when ignorance and the twisting of realities to pursue agendas are all about.

So whenever a "man of God" and "church" rape or molest a child or kill his wife lets blame it on "evolution" also.

Heck lets blame everything on evolution and Darwin.

By the way I has been a teacher for 10 years so don't even go into why SATs scores are down in our country.

You post remind me an eight year old that told me onces when I asked why she hit another child and she said to me. "Because the devil made me" so I ask her who told her to said that she said "my mom"

Yes our children education starts at home.

Denied ignorance.

[edit on 31-7-2005 by marg6043]



posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 12:59 PM
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Originally posted by Evolution Cruncher

The bible does not lead to a currupt society. it leads to order and self-control. why wouldnt you want that?

Crusades, inquisitions, hitler's quest for the grail and ark, burning of witches. Now we have a return to demonizing scientists. This is ridiculous.
So you're blaming everything "bad/evil" happening since Darwin on Darwin and his theory. Two words Ignorance and arrogance. Pathetic.



posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 07:46 PM
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So whenever a "man of God" and "church" rape or molest a child or kill his wife lets blame it on "evolution" also.


So Evolution Cruncher posts a well thought out arguement and Marg replies with unrelated topics out of anger. That pretty much undermines Marg's arguement in my eyes. Evolution Cruncher was talking about the teaching's of Evolution in school. Not the actions of a psychopath or the corruption of a church. But anyway, how about we talk about the corruption of the schooling system while we are on the subject. How about we talk about the teaching of a completely unprovable theory to young children who are just starting school. Talk about brainwashing. Why don't we just teach kids that Aliens actually exist. I mean, there are many people who believe they do, it is slightly provable, it is related to the science of the universe... But no, it is a completely unprovable theory and so we cannot teach it in grade school. I vote we keep Evolution where it belongs, in a fiction book along with the Aliens. And hey sure we can leave the creation theory to a fiction book as well. It just goes to show you that no theory about the beginning of the World belongs in a kids textbook.



You post remind me an eight year old that told me onces when I asked why she hit another child and she said to me. "Because the devil made me" so I ask her who told her to said that she said "my mom"


Well maybe her mom believed in Evolution... That would end your arguement real fast, would it not!???



Yes our children education starts at home.


Good point. Here is the Bible's take on that subject:
"Teach your children to choose the right path, and when they are older, they will remain upon it." Proverbs 22:6

"Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He (God) is righteous." John 3:7



posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 07:48 PM
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So whenever a "man of God" and "church" rape or molest a child or kill his wife lets blame it on "evolution" also.


So Evolution Cruncher posts a well thought out arguement and Marg replies with unrelated topics out of anger. That pretty much undermines Marg's arguement in my eyes. Evolution Cruncher was talking about the teaching's of Evolution in school. Not the actions of a psychopath or the corruption of a church. But anyway, how about we talk about the corruption of the schooling system while we are on the subject. How about we talk about the teaching of a completely unprovable theory to young children who are just starting school. Talk about brainwashing. Why don't we just teach kids that Aliens actually exist. I mean, there are many people who believe they do, it is slightly provable, it is related to the science of the universe... But no, it is a completely unprovable theory and so we cannot teach it in grade school. I vote we keep Evolution where it belongs, in a fiction book along with the Aliens. And hey sure we can leave the creation theory to a fiction book as well. It just goes to show you that no theory about the beginning of the World belongs in a kids textbook.



You post remind me an eight year old that told me onces when I asked why she hit another child and she said to me. "Because the devil made me" so I ask her who told her to said that she said "my mom"


Well maybe her mom believed in Evolution... That would end your arguement real fast, would it not!???



Yes our children education starts at home.


Good point. Here is the Bible's take on that subject:
"Teach your children to choose the right path, and when they are older, they will remain upon it." Proverbs 22:6

"Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He (God) is righteous." John 3:7



posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 08:26 PM
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SupaSmoove101
do I have a point?

and marg.
I dont care how long youve been a teacher. you werent a teacher when evolution was introduced into the school system if youve only been a teacher for 10 years. it was introduced almost 50 years ago. in the laste 50s early 60s. so you wouldnt know about the SAT scores dropping in our country if all of that took place in the 60s would you?

silentlonewolf
im not blaming all evil on evolution, there was evil before darwin. evolution was started by the devil in the garden of eden when he told eve that "ye shall be as gods..."
im simply saying that many bad things have skyrocketted and good things have deminished ever since evolution was introduced in public schools.
if evolution is true, there is no way to decide right from wrong, if you had to decide what was right from wrong, you have to decide how you decide. where is the standard.
if evolution is true, we are only here to pass on our genes and there is no prupose to life, if it feels good, do it. also if evolution is true, humans are just animals, which is probably why many kids these days act like animals and dont give second thought to some of the things they do. because if there is no God that eliminate the rules doesnt it? if there is no standard set for us, how do we tell what is right from wrong? I dont care what set of laws you bring up, or what code you bring up, how do you know that those are absolute truth and are the best way to live?
if evolution is true, life goes the way we want it and if others dont like it, then oh well.

if evolution is true, death brought man into this world and death is a hero because its how things get ahead. see where that led hitler and stalin and pot. they thought they were speeding up the process, and you dont even see that.

if evolution is true, death is good. this is probably the reason many people want this worlds population down to a half billion.

I dont disagree with the statement "there was evil before darwin" but that doesnt mean that darwins theory didnt mess up our society.
he thinks we share a common heritage with earthworms.

if you tell that to a kid, his outlook on life is going to change, and not for the better. its going to get real bad. if a kid thinks that he came from a big bang and slowly evolved from a bacteria over billions of years he is going to think that life has no purpose and life is based on what feels good to him. which is not the best way to live.

evoluton like I said before is a dangerous philosophy and should not be taught in public schools because it ruins the morality in the young people. and the young people are the ones who get brainwashed because they have no choice but to listen. no other choice if they dont listen to this religion they fail, which is not the way its supposed to be.

like I said before and I will continue to say.
Evolution is a religion and a dangerous philosophy.

let me ask you a question marg.

if I proved to you that God existed, would that change your life style and the way you think, talk, live, would it change who you are? would the 10 commandments weaken our nation, would it cause kids to behave even worse? or would it fix the problem?



[edit on 31-7-2005 by Evolution Cruncher]



posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 08:28 PM
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Did you also know that since evolution was introduced into schools in the '60s we have landed a man on the moon, wiped out small pox, put a computer with internet acess in almost half of all US house holds, improved living conitions and life expectancy, introduced CAT scans in hospitals, MRI's, etc...



posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 09:07 PM
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So can any of the two experts on "the evils of evolutions" can please explain your point?

Or . . . perhaps Dr. Hovind has a nice explanation for that in his "videos" EvolutionChruncher.

And for the starter of the thread where are your prove of facts to sustain your claim of the 6000 years summary.

For such a claim you must have some irrefutable prof or should I watch also some of Dr. Hovind videos in the matter.

Deny ignorance get education.



posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 09:52 PM
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I felt the need to interject in this discussion in response to the claims and statements which you have made on this particular discussion.

You claim that evolution is a religion, I have seen many threads like this on ATS and have never bothered posting as I basically couldnt be arsed, but I have decided to throw my hat in the ring, perhaps just to clairfy my own view on this matter.

You also claim to be a prophet by predicting what our children will think, and how they will grow up with poor morals, because they were taught about evolution at school.

There are many more points that I would raise but as I stated previously I just cant be arsed, so Ill address these two points and see if you reply. If you do then thats good, but I may not reply again due to the effect of my aforementioned state of readiness.

With regard to your statement of evolution being a religion, I dont understand your logic in this. Are you saying that particular avenues of science can be construed as religion? Would this mean that someone who believed in gravity or relativity was also following a religion? What if a person believed in evolution, gravity and relativity? In your expert opinion, which religion would that person follow? Which deity would they prey to (Charles Darwin, Isaac Newton or Einstein)? And which 'church' would they attend to give praise and worship (archeological dig tent, apple tree or a physics lab)? Also if a christian cannot also be a Jew, or a Muslim, then an evolutionist cannot also be a gravitist or a relativitist, and yet we know that there are people who believe in all the avenues of science mentioned above, which means that they cant be religions, right? As one cannot be a member of more than one religion.

I guess my view of thinking is that if you are going to compare anything of being like a religion, then it should really be science, not evolution. To believe in science one is always looking to increase ones knowledge of our selves and our place in the universe. Religious bodies (even the ones that claim to have true scientists working hard on formulae etc) merely strive to prove the truth of their chosen religion. There have been around 300 (think its about that) recorded religions in the worlds history(theres several dozen different versions of christianity), and they all try and prove the same thing. That their religion is the true and correct one, that they alone know the true history and prophecies of mankind.

Science is completely different, its a contradictory standpoint to religion. Science doesnt take anyones side, it simply tries to solve the mysterys of the universe and does not set out to actually disprove any religious doctrine. Whereas religion only talks about information that apparently proves that only their doctrine is correct. In my opinion and if you disagree then no problem, the true statment would be science is a religion. But dammit, I just said that science and religion are contradictory mandates. So I guess its either science OR religion. So no evolution is not a religion, it is merely an aspect of science, and as I mentioned, in my opinion science and religion cannot be considered the same.

Now onto my second point about our children being brought up with poor morals and no code of ethics because they are taught about evolution at school. I frankly find your remarks insulting, and very naive. I was taught about evolution at school as well as many, many other subjects. In your expert opinion you have stated that I have poor morals and poor conduct due to my being taught this subject.

I didnt have a great education as most of the time I couldnt be arsed, but I still managed to carve a successful carrer as a bank manager (I started as a cashier on the front desks and worked my way up), after becoming a manager I thought I had it all I had money, a house, 2 cars etc. As I approached 30 I realised that I hated my job. As a manager you are privvy to much more sensitive information, you see how the corporate game is really played, there are some that think that fleecing working class people out of their money to make the bank profit is a good thing(normally because the salary is good and the bonus is even better). I must admit that I went along with it for several years, enjoying the little luxuries in life. After a while tho I hated my job, looking for different ways of screwing average joes to make myself more money. I had a good long think with my wife and decided to quit.

I lost my house my cars, acquired huge amounts of debt and went to university to follow a dream of my gream job, and I need a degree for that. Since I quit the bank I have had very little money, yet have managed to have two beautiful children, my son was born 4 weeks ago today. Ive also managed the highest scores in my class in my first two years of university averaging 82% in my modules so far. I am heading for a 1st class with honours Batchelors in Science. My subject is digital entertainment computing. Im going to be a 3d modeller and animator in the motion picture industry, and Im hoping to work on sci-fi cgi scenes.

My morals were responsible for me quitting the (morally corrupt) banking system, I have suffered for my morals as well as gaining a family that I cant imagine being without. My own code of conduct has allowed me to get into the corporate world without decent qualifications (through hard work and focus), and also allowed me at 33 years old to have some of the highest marks in my entire year at univeristy.

So when you tell me that being taught evolution has given me poor morals and a poor code of conduct, you can understand why I get a little agitated.

Just my views though, Im sure youll come back and probably quote the bible to prove your point, or quote some statistics to show why exam results are falling. No doubt this will prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that I am a morally suspect heathen.

Grunt!!!



posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 10:06 PM
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it doesnt matter to me what you do marg.
only a person of your ignorance would like to refute the possibility of a creator.

and you still never answered my question,
if I proved to you that God existed, would that change your life style and the way you think, talk, live, would it change who you are? would the 10 commandments weaken our nation, would it cause kids to behave even worse? or would it fix the problem?




Did you also know that since evolution was introduced into schools in the '60s we have landed a man on the moon, wiped out small pox, put a computer with internet acess in almost half of all US house holds, improved living conitions and life expectancy, introduced CAT scans in hospitals, MRI's, etc...


Man on the moon, that was only because Russia beat us in the space race.
the MRI was invented by a creationist. so was Gatorade. putting internet into houses have nothing to do with evolution. Living conditions were improved because that is common sense because it prevents people from getting sick and stuff and life expectancy has gone up from improved living conditions and increase in nutrition, thses have nothing to do with evolution.

MARG. I never said I can prove that the earth is 6,000 years old I said I believe it is. there is a difference, and by the way the earth is not even a million years old. its not even 50,000 years old.

the amount of C14 in the atmosphere says so. its been estimated that it would take about 30,000 years for the amount of C124 in the atmosphere to reach equilibrium and it hasnt yet. the earth magnetic field has lost 6% within the past 150 years. the sun is losing 1/10 of a percent each century meaning it cant be older than millions. Saturn is losing its rings, you cant just keep losing rings, eventually you wont have anything to lose. the moon Io still has a hot core indicating its still young. the grand canyon was not formed by the colorado river, it is geophysically impossible. take a look at Dr Hovind video entitle "the age of the earth"

you know what, do take a look at DR Hovinds video series and then watch his debate series. the debate series is even better after you watch his 7 part series first. Evolutionist have no proof for any of it. all they say is that there is proof and say that it proves it.

the point is, evolution is a religion and a dangerous philosophy and it shouldnt be taught in public schools as science when its not. it should be taught in a debate class.



posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 10:07 PM
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The present day "scientific creationism" emerged after creationist were unable to ban evolution, or to teach bible stories on science classes.

Evolution never claim to be a religion like loon said, but instead creationist started to claim that their theory was like evolution and that belong with the science curriculum.

In their logic, they made the biggest mistake they put evolution as a religion.

So as you can see it was the works of creationist.



posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 10:24 PM
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loon I think you missed the entire point in my post. Evolution is a dangerous philosophy and if believed, can lead to many bad things.
such as:

the increase in violent crimes,
the increase in STDs in 10-14 year olds.
the increase in number of pregnant teens ages 10-14.
the drop in SAT scores in the 60's
the rise of marxism, Naziism, communism.
the new world order

there is more of a negative side to evolution than a good side.

im not saying that Science is a religion. gravity is not a religion, we observe it, its scientific. Evolution is not observable nor is it demonstrable. its not scientific.

refer to my signature and then think about it, think real hard and you will agree.



posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 10:30 PM
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The present day "scientific creationism" emerged after creationist were unable to ban evolution, or to teach bible stories on science classes.


there is no law that states creation cannot be taught in public schools, it cant be required. that doesnt mean it cant be taught. there is no law banning it. take a look at the law.


Evolution is a religion because it requires faith. Time and death seems to be the heros in the plot of evolution. like I said before Evolution is a religion, it requires faith, you dont know that it ever occured. it is assumed to have happend because the only other alternative is a creator.



posted on Aug, 1 2005 @ 02:24 AM
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Originally posted by Evolution Cruncher


it was introduced almost 50 years ago. in the laste 50s early 60s. so you wouldnt know about the SAT scores dropping in our country if all of that took place in the 60s would you?

And in fifty years how much harder has the curriculum become? Also, the school problem has more to do with at home issues than teaching evolutionary biology.



im simply saying that many bad things have skyrocketted and good things have deminished ever since evolution was introduced in public schools.


And in that fifty year span, how much has our culture changed? How much time do parents stay at home with thier kids a night. Also how can you say "bad things" have skyrocketted. There have always been war, disease, famine, disgruntled youth, murder, etc. Just with the ability to get information happening out world wide in a matter of minutes makes us more aware.



if evolution is true, there is no way to decide right from wrong, if you had to decide what was right from wrong, you have to decide how you decide. where is the standard.

Who ever said you had to have a bible to learn right from wrong. If a deer smells a predator, it's going to run. Why? becausew it's instinctive. To stand there would be certain death. It's up to the parent to teach right from wrong, or experience if it doesn't kill you.



if evolution is true, we are only here to pass on our genes and there is no prupose to life, if it feels good, do it.

No, the "purpose" of life is to survive. To pass my knowledge on to the next generation, to give them every shot at living to reproduce and pass it on. Just because something feels good, doesn't mean do it. Not all things that taste good can be eaten, and the person survive from it.



also if evolution is true, humans are just animals, which is probably why many kids these days act like animals and dont give second thought to some of the things they do. because if there is no God that eliminate the rules doesnt it?

And this is where the arrogance comes in. I am an animal. I have the basic needs any other life form needs. Food, water, shelter, a mate (Well, with the few exceptions). Why must humans be better than animals? If I need meat I will kill a deer or fish. If i need water I will find a waterhole. If I need shelter, common sense tells me to find a place where the rain is least likely to fall through. Now for kids acting like animals, that is subjective like just about everything you posted. Every culture/society has it's laws. These are set forth to allow the society to grow in the direction that we choose. There are also the natural laws of physics and other sciences.



if there is no standard set for us, how do we tell what is right from wrong? I dont care what set of laws you bring up, or what code you bring up, how do you know that those are absolute truth and are the best way to live?
if evolution is true, life goes the way we want it and if others dont like it, then oh well.

First of all see above for the standard. We set it as a society, this we call ethics. There are several absolutes on earth. These are natural laws. As for absolutes in life, there is only one absolute and that is death. It is the fear of death and what comes after death that almost all if not all religions have thier backbone from. i am not afraid of death. When I die my body will complete it's cycle. It will be returned to the earth. It will become food for countless organisms that will eventually continue to feed other organisms. My legacy will be my offspring.



if evolution is true, death brought man into this world and death is a hero because its how things get ahead. see where that led hitler and stalin and pot. they thought they were speeding up the process, and you dont even see that.

Why must everything be good or bad? Death in Evolution is by no means a hero. If it comes to soon, the species fails to reproduce and goes extint. If it never comes at all, the molecules that compose that spieces will not be recycled and eventually, not enough will be able to be gather to sustain life.



Ithat doesnt mean that darwins theory didnt mess up our society.
he thinks we share a common heritage with earthworms.

if you tell that to a kid, his outlook on life is going to change, and not for the better. its going to get real bad. if a kid thinks that he came from a big bang and slowly evolved from a bacteria over billions of years he is going to think that life has no purpose and life is based on what feels good to him. which is not the best way to live.

It's only bad for a kid if he's raised and coached by parents that he is entitled to greater than that. Nobody is entitled to anything more than an earth worm, a chance to survive. They also have the same gaurantee, they will die.



Evolution is a religion and a dangerous philosophy.

It is only a religion to those who spin it into one.



posted on Aug, 1 2005 @ 02:43 AM
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Who ever said you had to have a bible to learn right from wrong. If a deer smells a predator, it's going to run. Why? becausew it's instinctive.


how does evolution explain this?
how does it explain Love, Joy , sense of justice, hate, anger, emotions.

how can you trust your thoughts? your brain is just a bunch of chemicals according to the logic of many, to include people Dr Hovind has debated.

people think that your brain is something that just got together by chance, how can you trust your thoughts or your reasoning processes?



posted on Aug, 1 2005 @ 04:33 AM
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how does evolution explain this?


The deer that didn't run for its life was killed. The one that did lived and was therefore able to reproduce.



how does it explain Love, Joy , sense of justice, hate, anger, emotions.


With our rationale to guide us, it often seems like emotions get in the way rather than help -- but they are in fact useful. A child with a loving parent is more likely to survive and reproduce later on.

Most emotions are probably a result of suffering; if we didn't suffer (fear, pain, hate), there would be no reason to avoid danger in the first place.

Then, there are the more positive emotions that are useful in detering outright suicide.



how can you trust your thoughts? your brain is just a bunch of chemicals according to the logic of many, to include people Dr Hovind has debated.

people think that your brain is something that just got together by chance, how can you trust your thoughts or your reasoning processes?


I imagine many people have lost sleep over this (especially Descartes).

There's definitely the possibility that I have a skewed logic, but I can cross-check my rationale by running it by other independent minds.

There's also the possibility that I don't exist at all -- but for this question I don't have any means of orientation. So, a few crucial assumptions are necessary. In order to make any progress in anything I have to have a starting place.



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