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J-10 has finally been deployed.

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posted on Jul, 26 2005 @ 07:39 PM
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The Department of Defense’s latest annual assessment of China’s military power says the indigenously developed Chengdu J-10 fighter is finally being fielded by the air force following completion of development last year. The Pentagon also says China last year renegotiated its agreement to licence-produce the Sukhoi Su-27MK as the J-11, enabling it to complete the remaining aircraft as multirole Su-27SMKs.

The report says China has nearly completed development and testing of an upgraded Xian JH-7 fighter/attack aircraft and that improvements include better radar, night-attack avionics and advanced weapons including anti-ship missiles. China is also pursuing domestic upgrades to its Shenyang J-8II fighters and the air force “appears interested in converting retired fighter aircraft into unmanned combat air vehicles”, the report says.

New fighter deployed

Past ATS related topics:
China Release New Fighter. The J-10.
J10 Unclassified (PLAFF releases info for first time)


Virtually all testing is now complete and China has started deploying the J-10 in small numbers. Total productuin rates are still unknown to date, despite educated speculation. Will this fighter make its mark in the aerospace fighter genre?





seekerof




posted on Jul, 26 2005 @ 09:04 PM
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I do not believe it will. The design is nothing new and the only reason it would be bought by another nation is because it is cheap.



posted on Jul, 27 2005 @ 01:41 AM
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What was the point of all those pics?



posted on Jul, 27 2005 @ 01:42 AM
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J-11 “Indigenization” This Sukhoi official was also willing to talk about the PLA’s desire to “indigenize” the J-11 with substantial new Chinese-made components, like radar, engines and avionics. He said that the PLA was capable of doing all these things but that it would take the PLA “ten years” to realize an indigenized J-11. But when they did so, he expected that the PLA would also sell this fighter. This new J-11 is expected to carry PLA-made weapons like the SD-10 active-guided AAM, precision attack weapons, radar and a new “glass” cockpit of digitized avionics. The main goal of the program is to make a fighter capable of both fighter and attack missions—something the baseline Su-27SK/J-11 cannot do. This individual also confirmed comments by a Sukhoi official at the 2002 Zhuhai show that Shenyang J-11s have a better production finish than those made at the KnAAPO factory in Komsomolsk.

Surprisingly, Shenyang is not going to Suhkoi to support this program—a matter which vexes them. Sukhoi used MAKS to promote its new program to upgrade the basic Su-27SK. Unlike the new J-11 version which is still in development, Sukhois upgrade package available now would enable multi-role fighter and attack capabilities, provide upgraded radar and avionics, plus a new digital fly-by-wire system which greatly improves aircraft control.


www.uscc.gov...



i throught china was upgrading the J-11 themselves.



posted on Jul, 27 2005 @ 01:44 AM
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Originally posted by jetsetter
What was the point of all those pics?


showing the J-10 in service



posted on Jul, 27 2005 @ 02:28 AM
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Hmmmm several of those pics the plane is in the "green" or the protective coating that goes over bare aluminum, so some of those are not "in service pictures" but rather flight test.



posted on Jul, 27 2005 @ 04:20 AM
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Originally posted by Seekerof


indigenously developed Chengdu J-10 fighter



Isi'nt it common knodwledge that its based on the Israeli Lavi ???
... i mean even chinese sources admit it....
www.sinodefence.com...
and reputed ones like FAS >> www.fas.org...

This US govt website >> www.uscc.gov... says the airframe is mostly Israeli and China recieved control system assistance from Israel in addition to saying that the composites that are used in the body parts like the wings, etc are also obtained from Israel and there is also evidence that Israeli engineers actually worked in China on the J-10

and there are several hundreds of sources that say so

i dont want to go into it again and post everything all over again and start this debate again but if anyone wants to take a look, please do so at >> www.abovetopsecret.com...&singlepost=1470228

Just wondering if the J-10 will replace any fighter in Chinese service or if it will enter into service without anything else being retired


and those pictures in no way convey that the J-10 has been deployed....they are of prototypes in testing or of aircrafts in LSP.

Irrespective of its Lavi roots, it appears to be a neat airplane with good capabilities ...but i still fell that it will be insufficient in any prospective war with Taiwan.

Here's more :

Russia Signs $300M Deal to Supply Engines for Chinas J-10

Russia’s main arms exporter has signed a $300 million deal to sell jet fighter engines to China, the Associated Press news agency reported on Monday, quoting Russia’s Vedomosti daily.

The deal includes 100 AL-31 engines for China’s J-10 single-engine fighter and is one of Rosoboronexport’s largest this year, the Vedomosti daily reported.

A spokesman for Rosoboronexport refused to confirm or deny the report.

In 2003, China bought 53 such engines for the J-10, which is fitted with Russian “Zhemchug” radar.



www.mosnews.com...



Russian involvement in the J-10 program was not limited to the Al-31FN turbojet engine, but also included offers for advanced multifunction radars, navigation and targeting systems, ECM suite, and missile warning and defense systems.


www.globalsecurity.org...


anyway, all in all its a good development for China


[edit on 27-7-2005 by Stealth Spy]



posted on Jul, 27 2005 @ 04:27 AM
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Mod Edit: Please refrain from bypassing the profanity censors

[edit on 7/28/05 by FredT]



posted on Jul, 27 2005 @ 04:29 AM
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Originally posted by Stealth Spy

indigenously developed Chengdu J-10 fighter



if you dont have creditble proof like globalsercruity.com or some other known military site then please dont talk.

dont flood us with you 2002-2003 garbage



posted on Jul, 27 2005 @ 08:04 AM
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"The J10 has finally been deployed"?


Its been deployed for nearly 25 years, they just called it the F16!



ZING!!!


Im sorry guys, I just had to



posted on Jul, 27 2005 @ 09:31 AM
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its okay, the truth hurts



posted on Jul, 27 2005 @ 10:07 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite

Originally posted by Stealth Spy

indigenously developed Chengdu J-10 fighter



if you dont have creditble proof like globalsercruity.com or some other known military site then please dont talk.

dont flood us with you 2002-2003 garbage


FAS IS a creditable website.



posted on Jul, 27 2005 @ 10:54 AM
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FAS is not credible when it gives wrong info.. and I have found that to be the case in many instances.. Esp. in the case of data on non-western systems..



posted on Jul, 27 2005 @ 11:12 AM
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The J-10 is not an exact copy of any aircraft but it was designed with information from the Israeli Lavi and an F-16 from Pakistan. It does use much Russian technology including its engines, sensors, etc which are based off of Russian designs. There is nothing new about the J-10, it is not revolutionary in anyway except that the Chinese can build it. I believe that was the real purpose in the first place, to gain experience building somewhat modern fighter aircraft.



posted on Jul, 27 2005 @ 11:15 AM
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Click here for several credible links >>>

www.abovetopsecret.com...&singlepost=1470228

The US govt is creditable and even Israel's director general of defence have acknoledged it. ... and moreover several chinese sources themselves have confirmed it.

Infact, THERE ARE HARDLY ANY LINKS ON THE www ON THE J-10 THAT DONT MENTION THAT ITS BASED ON THE LAVI .... its common knodwledge to everyone that has even vaguely been following aviation.

I am not saying its an outright copy (like the J-7 of the Mig-21) but is based on the Lavi, meaning that its a slightly modified version of it.


The LCA is .......

and chinawhite, i dont understand you...what on earth does the LCA have to do with this thread
....and what do you find hilarious about it
... someone might mistake you for a comedian one of these days
..please if you have anything against any other thing go address it in a dedicated thread



if you dont have creditble proof like globalsercruity.com or some other known military site then please dont talk.

dont flood us with you 2002-2003 garbage


The advise is more applicable to you if i may suggest

Most of the websites that i have quoted are the same ones that you yourself have used innumerable times in other discussions...and i suggest you do what you ask me to if you cant accept the hard reality and try to derail things by bringing up other aircrafts that have no relation or connection to the thread topic whatsoever....and adding your never failing foul language to it to rake up a flame war


Infact several sources that i have quoted are chinese sources and are updated in 2005....and others are more credible than globalsecurity


The truth is harsh and hard to accept.....if you cannot do so, then do what you have suggested to me...otherwise dont deflect things by bringing up non-related topics..and using foul language...and disrupt other people ..by initiating a flame war


Having disruptive conversations with you is the last thing i desire but your posts leave me with little choice


-----------------------------------

Getting back, *breath of fresh air*

The J-10 was concieved in 1984, and has finally been deployed in 2005, despite being a modification of an Israeli design, has extensive Israeli assistance in control software & composite materials for its wings, despite the fact that its engines & sensors are Russian, despite that fact that China illegally obtained an F-16 from Pakistan, and despite crashes that killed its chief test pilot and several torturous years.



However, the first actual flight of the J-10 might have taken place two years earlier - in mid-1996 - but suffered from an engine malfunction with unknown consequences. In late 1997 the second flying J-10 "1002" prototype was lost in a crash which also killed the chief test pilot.


www.aeronautics.ru...



The development of J-10 has proven to be tortuous.

The prototype was rumored to have first flown in 1996, but the project suffered a serious setback in late 1997 when the 02 prototype lost control and crashed, as the result of certain system failure, presumably with either the FBW system or the engine.


www.air-attack.com...




The development of J-10 has proven to be tortuous.

The first prototype was set to fly between 1995-96, powered by a newly designed WS-10 turbofan. However the development of this indigenous engine suffered some serious difficulties and thus the rear fuselage and engine intake were forced to be redesigned in order to accommodate an alternative AL-31FN engine imported from Russia. As the result, the first prototype (01) made its maiden flight on March 23, 1998, two years behind the schedule. The project suffered another setback between 1998-99 when the 02 prototype lost control and crashed, caused by certain system failure, presumably with either the FBW system or the engine.

mil.jschina.com.cn...


Anyway its the final result that counts and finally the J-10 has come good


[edit on 27-7-2005 by Stealth Spy]



posted on Jul, 27 2005 @ 12:16 PM
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Good on China I say, The J-10 gave them lots of experience on ow to develop and build a modern plane. So It has made a difference because im sure that alot more and better aircraft will come out of the J-10 development. And actually, no-one is entirely sure what the specs are.for all we know, it could either be crap or amazing, we just cant be sure. But im opting for good because im a fan of non-western aviation.



posted on Jul, 27 2005 @ 01:22 PM
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Yes they will gain good expierence from it but i doubt if it is enough..because the design is Israeli (and they only slightly modified it), they got assistance from Israel for the flight software coding, the engine is Russian, the radar and sensors are Russian.


David Lari, director general of Israel's Ministry of Defense, acknowledged in an Associated Press interview that "some technology on aircraft" had been sold to China and that some Israeli companies may not have "clean hands".

atimes.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink">link


the US Office of Naval Intelligence in its unclassified "Worldwide Challenges to Naval Strike Warfare" restated more strongly than it had the previous year its belief that US-derived technology from the canceled Israeli Lavi fighter was being used on China's new J-10 fighter. It said, "The design has been undertaken with substantial direct external assistance, primarily from Israel and Russia, with indirect assistance through access to US technologies."

In fact, according to the annual intelligence report, "the J-10 is a single-seat, light multi-role fighter based heavily on the canceled Israeli Lavi program".


Until it was canceled in 1987, much of Lavi technological development was paid for by the United States.

link


..at least 20 engineers from Israel Aircraft Industries (IAI) were part of the fighter's design team at Chengdu.

link


-------

And moreover the Lavi was Israel's attempt to match/beat the performance of the F-16. They spent 2 billion $ on the project. But they realised that it was no way close to match the performance of the F-16 and scrapped the project in 1987.

And China have slightly modified the Lavi design in the J-10, so that raises serious question marks about its capabilities

[edit on 27-7-2005 by Stealth Spy]



posted on Jul, 27 2005 @ 01:31 PM
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The PL-12 or SD-10
The PL-12 was said to be derived from the Italian Aspide technology and integrated with active radar-homing seeker technology obtained from Russia.

The missile was developed indigenously, but also with helps from foreign manufacturers. Several Russian missile and subsystem developers are reportedly supporting the program, with much of the missile utilizing components from the R-77 (AA-12 Adder).

In 1996 China revealed an active radar-homing seeker AMR-1, which is possibly based on Russian technology. Claimed to be developed for the new generation active radar-homing MRAAM, the AMR-1 seeker or its developed variant could be used to guide the SD-10.
www.sinodefence.com...


PL-11
Chinese copy of Italian Alenia's Aspide missile (which inturn was derived from the U.S. AIM-7E Sparrow) that it got in the late 1980s
www.sinodefence.com...

PL-9
Apart from its control surfaces the PL-9 is almost identical to the Israeli Python-3, which was developed from the AIM-9L. The one major difference, according to information in Jane's All the World's Aircraft, is that the PL-9 has only about one-third the range of the Python 3.

China has improved upon the PL-9 by marrying it to an apparent copy of the Arsenel helmet sight from the R-73.
www.sinodefence.com...

PL-8
The PL-8 infrared homing short-range air-to-air missile is a Chinese copy of the Israeli Python-3.
www.sinodefence.com...

The PL-4
The PL-4 is a Chinese copy of the U.S. AIM-7B Sparrow. (from Pak ?)
www.sinodefence.com...

Its other missiles : R-73, R-77, R-27 - These are Russian missiles.


Note that all of my sources are chinese sources.



posted on Jul, 27 2005 @ 01:31 PM
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EDIT double post corrected;

enjoy pics :

enjoy this J-10 fighter model photo revealed by an internal press of the Chinese Aircraft Industry in the early 90's :



and here is a picture of the Israeli Lavi :




[edit on 27-7-2005 by Stealth Spy]



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