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U.S. Supersonic Anti-ship Guide Missile?

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posted on Jul, 29 2005 @ 10:38 PM
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Is there any credible source for the Sunburn being in Iran's inventory? At anyrate it like the Bhramos has aquired a near mythical reputation despite ZERO evidence to back it up.

[sarcasm]But if Joe says is so then maybe we should pay heed [/sarcasm]




posted on Jul, 29 2005 @ 11:57 PM
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Here, FredT:


May 1995
Ukraine Ambassador Ivan Maydan denies accusations that Ukraine sold Iran eight SS-N-22 Sunburn anti-ship cruise missiles for $450,000 each.
—International Security Digest, May 1995, cited in Agence France Presse International News, 14 May 1995, cited in "Ballistic, Cruise Missile, and Missile Defense Systems: Trade and Significant Developments, March 1995-June 1995," Nonproliferation Review, Center for Nonproliferation Studies, Fall 1995, Vol. 3, No. 1, p. 161; IRNA (Tehran) 17 May 1995, cited in "Ballistic, Cruise Missile, and Missile Defense Systems: Trade and Significant Developments, March 1995-June 1995," Nonproliferation Review, Center for Nonproliferation Studies, Fall 1995, Vol. 3, No. 1, p. 161.

Iran: Missile Chronology

The thing here is that the Sunburn has never been combat tested/used in a combat environment. The second thing here is that what ever is launching the Sunburn would probably be targeted before it got within range to be launched. Anyhow, it, along with the Brahmos, remain feared and respected on paper, though must be taken into consideration, just as counter measures against them must be considered.




seekerof



posted on Jul, 30 2005 @ 12:25 AM
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Thanks for the link Seekerof. Yeah the Sunburn/Bhramos are limited by thier delivery platform. If they are going after a CBG they would have to get through quite a few lines of defence.

Add to the new radar systems going into the F-18E/F which is supposed to have the range and resolution to pick up stealthy cruise missiles as well as our two friends, then past Aegis and the RAM defences. CBG were designed to go up to the Bearing Straight and play with the Soviets during WWIII so to say they have a robust defence is an understatment.

On a side note in last weeks AWST there was a brief discussion of a new AIM-120 variant desinged specificly for the cruise missile defence. It basicaly involved tweaks in the explosive pattern of the warhead to better hit the missiles.



posted on Jul, 30 2005 @ 03:34 AM
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RIM-116 , being honest , i don`t think will successfully engage brahmos 100% of the time , ve==even the block 1 version - it just (IMO) isn`t good enough for close in - hence why SeaRAM

navysite.de...

bottom of the page , they mention its being tested on HMS York.

RAM is only deployed on around 60 ships - of both the US navy and German navy
A moot point though - as most ships either carry SM-2 or Sea Sparrow - which really isn`t up to engaging Brhmos , Yahkont or Moskit



posted on Jul, 30 2005 @ 05:00 AM
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US Navy doesn't employ the supersonic AS misilles, because they don't need them. Together with planes Harpoon is good enough. Remeber that supersonic ramjet misilles have also serious drawback. They are too big and heavy for their capabilities. For example the sunburn weights 500kg more than Tomahawk, but it has only 10% range and 50% warhead. Harpoon range is comparable to Sunburn, but Harpoon weights only 25-30% of sunburn and can be easily used by other platforms.

Besides I think, that the ramjet misille threat is overstated today. The original philosophy was that the ship will be not capable to detect them until 10-15 km away (no chance to fire Sea Sparrows) and Phalanx would be no effective becasue the fragments could damage the ship (Phalanx engages at 1500 m). As already7 said the Sea Ram solves this problem. It can quickly engage multiple targets 8-9 km away and it's fire and forget. From now on the SUnburns will have hard time to break through the defense.

Besides just vecause the ships radar coverage is limited by horizont doesn't mean the Sunburn cannot be detected before. Each CBG has Hawkeyes that can detect the incoming Sunburns from top 100 miles away. Then the ship can be prepared and the medium range antimisille misilles can be used.

[edit on 30-7-2005 by longbow]



posted on Jul, 30 2005 @ 10:11 AM
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longbow - as i have said many MANY times before - you name 1 ship that has SeaRAM on it.



posted on Jul, 30 2005 @ 10:20 AM
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Originally posted by Seekerof

Originally posted by Taishyou
Nope. No supersonic cruise missiles from the US.

Here you go, Taishyou: Joint SuperSonic Cruise Missile (JSSCM)

Also of note, there are and have been implemented hardware to combat the Russian Sunburn. The degree of effectiveness is of question being they have not been combat tested against such an adversary, then again, the degree of effectiveness of the Sunburn is also in question being it has not been combat tested.
The Sunburn is only king of the sea on paper....
seekerof


OOPS my mistake not the Sunburn, the SHIPWRECK was what I was thinking about

(I'm surprised nobody caught my mistake saying it has 550 km range)

[edit on 30-7-2005 by Taishyou]



posted on Jul, 30 2005 @ 11:05 AM
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Originally posted by Harlequin
longbow - as i have said many MANY times before - you name 1 ship that has SeaRAM on it.


I don''t say it is already equipped, I just said it is capable to deal with all supersonic sea skimming misilles. Actually it can be eqiupped very quickly in case of need - it's just RAM container instead of Phalanx. The HMS York will not even make live fire testings, because the misille was already tested.



posted on Jul, 30 2005 @ 12:16 PM
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so , if it can be deployed very quickly , why hasn`t `emergency capability` systems been deployed yet?

it`ll be a while yet before we see it - and anyway - RIM-116 is equiped on LHD,'___' and other similar vessels - the main stream fleet is using SM-2 and sea sparrow!



posted on Jul, 30 2005 @ 01:08 PM
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as posted by Harlequin
...why hasn`t `emergency capability` systems been deployed yet?


Why?
Simple.
Because there are already adequate counter-systems on US, UK, and some allied nations naval vessels already, Harlequin. Apparently, a number of national world and allied navies are not finding the Shipwreck, the Sunburn, and the Brahmos an emergency enough to warrent going spastic or ape # over. These anti-ship missiles are something to be considered andnot dismissed, but they are over-hyped, as well, having never been used in combat. If anything at all, I would be more concerned with something that has been battle tested, the Exocet. Till those other vaunted anti-ship missiles are battle tested, they remain king of the seas on paper.

You, as with some others, can continue to insist otherwise, but let me ask you this: Do you really think that the military, with vast amounts of money, will simply allow these over-hyped anti-ship missiles to go unnoticed or allow vessels to not have something that can be used against these anti-ship systems? If so, obviously, you think that a number of nations navy's are simply foolhardy and glutens for punishment, eh?


As I, and others have mentioned, there are a number of anti-missile systems currently on naval vessels and that the system is an over-lapping system, and quite effective when coupled with Aegis and other early detection radar systems.

SeaRAM will be implemented on the schedule set for it, adding another facet to that already multi-layered anti-missile, anti-aircraft defense systems and hardwares that have been implemented.




seekerof

[edit on 30-7-2005 by Seekerof]



posted on Jul, 30 2005 @ 01:45 PM
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Originally posted by Harlequin
so , if it can be deployed very quickly , why hasn`t `emergency capability` systems been deployed yet?

it`ll be a while yet before we see it - and anyway - RIM-116 is equiped on LHD,'___' and other similar vessels - the main stream fleet is using SM-2 and sea sparrow!


There are PRIORITIES. The US Navy never needed to shoot down antiship missile (at least I think so, correct me if I am wrong). The simply think they have enough time to wait. Hot potential enemies like NK or Iran have not sufficient capabilities to threat US Navy, so why to hurry? There are also other programs - new carriers, amphibous vessels, Virginia submarines, Iraq war etc. But the technology is here.



posted on Jul, 30 2005 @ 09:50 PM
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RIM-116 is equiped on LHD,'___' and other similar vessels


I believe it's also being fitted on all the remaining Spruance class DD's.




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