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The Complete 9/11 Timeline ( interactive ).

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posted on Oct, 16 2005 @ 06:01 PM

USDA Researcher who's work with DEET identified a possible cause of Gulf War Syndrome and received the thankfulness of Gulf War Veterans... got fired after S.C. Johnson Wax (manufacturer of DEET) got nervous.

[edit on 16/10/05 by LaBTop]

[edit on 16/10/05 by LaBTop]

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[edit on 16/10/2005 by Mirthful Me]

posted on Oct, 16 2005 @ 06:07 PM
Corruption and mismanagement in the military and on corporate level is rampant and on a huge scale in the USA.
Accountability of personnel involved : Nil to Zero !

"We, the People..." has become an empty phrase since the erection of the Federal Reserve Board, and has been eroded without an end in sight ever since.
How can a grownup society rely on funding the ideas and work of that society to a bunch of greedy private bankers?
That was intended by your founding fathers to be the sole responsibility of a trustworthy government, rightfully controlled by it's citizens, beginning at the grassroots and ending in the Senate.

Obviously the USA has become a mock democracy, their rulers unaccountable to their own citizenry, and their representatives in the legislative branches a Punch & Judy Show of greedy millionairs and billionairs buying themselfs, or their vasals, in the seats which were intended to be occupied by the greatest minds of that once respected nation, now degrading rapidly towards a third world dictatorship ruled by militarists and their croonies.

Their is no reliable mechanism in place anymore to hold the decisionmakers accountable for their deads.
Congress and House-Senate deteriorated into a majority of money-whores piously acting as pippin to an immens influential army of lobbyists send to Washington by their military/corporate masters.
Who is left to lobby for you, the "Average American"? Only a handfull of lost souls in an ocean of GREED...

There is still hope you can take back your country from the greedy hands of egoists.
And teach your next generations again to respect all the precious lifes on our jointly inhabited world.
Ofcourse you will hold on to your right to defend your own country and their citizens, however, from now on, solely based on solid facts and not on outright lies, cooked up by a greedy bunch of notorious liers and corporate window-dressers who are gridlocked on conquering other nation's mineral wealth.

Then you could regain the -respect- of billions of people who now watch in evergrowing aversion how your government, lead by a clearly fascistoid faction (which was voted TWO concurrent times into power by more than 50% of your citizens ), backed-up by an uncontrollable army and secret agencies, is on a despicable path to conquer nations based on (overwhelmingly proven) outright lies to you and us, the rest of this precious world.

Just one example of the cooked up lies dished up to start a wrong war:
US relied on 'drunken liar' to justify war, 'Crazy' Iraqi spy was full of misinformation, says report.
Ofcourse we also have the Downing Street (or Straight) Memo's to show us how they cooked up an unjust war...
And the total debunking of all reasons brought up before the UN by the former general. At least HE had the guts to resign for a second term in office.

Even your own media can't grasp the ever growing corruption in your country anymore, myriads of questions are left unanswered, and obviously NOBODY can do a damn thing about it. That's a clear sign of rampant corruption and a sure, steep ride into dictatorship :

From the Complete 911 Timeline:
September 10, 2001:
Rumsfeld Announces Defense Department Cannot Track $2.3 Trillion in Transactions.

CBS later calculates that 25 percent of the yearly defense budget is unaccounted for, and quotes a long-time defense budget analyst: “[Their] numbers are pie in the sky. The books are cooked routinely year after year.” Coverage of this rather shocking story is nearly nonexistent given the events of the next day, 9/11. [(1) Defense Department, 9/10/01; (2) CBS News, 1/29/02]

The Department of the Army will state that it won't publish a stand-alone financial statement for 2001 because of “the loss of financial-management personnel sustained during the Sept. 11 terrorist attack.” [(3) Insight, 4/29/02]
This $1.1 trillion plus unknown additional amounts continues to remain unaccounted for, and auditors say it may take eight years of reorganization before a proper accounting can be done. [(4) Insight, 8/21/03]


Thus the DoA's accounting branch seems to be so severely damaged by the loss of some tens of personnel in the Sept 11 2001 attack, that they need 8 YEARS before a proper accounting can be done!

That can only lead to one simple conclusion: They had centralized their accounting of special (and black) operations in those specific rooms in A, B or C rings of the Pentagon, hit on 9/11 2001 and had no offsite copies stored elsewhere! . This makes a feasable point for the propagators of the theory that the Pentagon hit was a criminal intentional one by others than arab terrorists.

[edit on 16/10/05 by LaBTop]

posted on Oct, 16 2005 @ 06:28 PM
link :
by Mack White.
Later, psychologist Hadley Cantril conducted a study of the effects of the broadcast and published his findings in a book, The Invasion from Mars: A Study in the Psychology of Panic. This study explored the power of broadcast media, particularly as it relates to the suggestibility of human beings under the influence of fear. Cantril was affiliated with Princeton University's Radio Research Project, which was funded in 1937 by the Rockefeller Foundation. Also affiliated with the Project was Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) member and Columbia Broadcasting System (CBS) executive Frank Stanton, whose network had broadcast the program. Stanton would later go on to head the news division of CBS, and in time would become president of the network, as well as chairman of the board of the RAND Corporation, the influential think tank which has done groundbreaking research on, among other things, mass brainwashing.

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[edit on 16/10/2005 by Mirthful Me]

posted on Oct, 16 2005 @ 06:41 PM

Kelly Cooke
As many of you may know, Noam Chomsky has been a longtime critic of those who believed there lie conspiracy within the Vietnam war and the murder of JFK. When it comes to this covert history, one man stands out as a paragon in scholars of our history, Peter Dale Scott. Scott has often proven Chomsky, and his like, wrong with his unparallelled research. Last year, before this blog came into existence, I read a compelling article by James K. Galbraith, son of John Kenneth Galbraith, ambassador and advisor to the Kennedy Administration. In his article, Galbraith presented the contrasting views of Chomsky and Scott, along with recently released transcripts from the Kennedy Administration's taped meetings, the weeks before the assassination. Galbraith was also generous enough to share several "insider" quotes that held far-reaching implications. Most will not even hypothesize on the true meaning of these quotes, for the nightmare is greater than most would want to imagine. The quotes lead the mind where it does not wish to travel- writers do not need to lead the reader with theory.

Book by James Hepburn : "Farewell America." completely downloadable online :

Robert Kennedy's own independent investigation:
Commentaries on this book : :
Feed Fear.

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[edit on 16/10/2005 by Mirthful Me]

posted on Oct, 16 2005 @ 07:03 PM
Digging Deep, the discovery of Mobil's exploration in the White Tiger field at the close of the war in Vietnam.
I have dug a bit deeper into Mobil's Vietnam exploration and located some more evidence that outlines the history of the lots Mobil had explored. As the document explains, when other Canadian and European oil corporations went into the same lots of Mobil's discovery, they were unable to find the oil. Later, when Russia drilled the same lots- they found billions of barrels. I have queried a few researchers on this and will keep you updated as information is made available.

Similarly, the oil industry played a leading role in Vietnam. Rarely is this discussed, but among the Vietnam veterans, who saw the oil freighters protected under their watch. You don't hear much about the oil in Vietnam, but they do have it.

"" Oil discoveries using this science have been asserted. As I mentioned, Vietnam does have oil. When the war concluded, many lots were found to be empty of black gold or already drilled to the capacity of US technology. The US oil corporations abandoned the lots; at this time, Russia went in with a joint partnership known as - Vietnam-Russia Oil and Gas Joint Venture Enterprise Vietsovpetro (VSP). Vietsompetro supplied the technology to drill many of these same lots. Where normally barren lots had been drilled- oil now surfaced. The official Russian RIA news agency quoted Russian dep. Prime Minister Khristenko, as saying that VSP's geologists reassessed reserves of the Vietsovpetro's main oil field, Bach Ho (White Tiger). According to previous estimates, the off-shore oil field contained 430 million tons of oil, while recently the figure was raised up to 498 million tons. These discoveries were found in the granite basin of the river, using the technology developed by Russia for abiotic oil.

In maintaining the integrity of the research, I should caution blog readers on these reserve reassessments, with reports of a recent shake-up in the state-run oil industry. Several Vietsovpetro executives were arrested for bribes, embezzlement and falsifying contracts for the housing of rig workers.

But, as noted in one of the above articles, a portion of these reserves were found by Mobil at the end of the Vietnam war:

Initially discovered by Mobil in the closing months of Vietnam War drama in late 1974, basement reservoirs off the South Vietnam shores proved to be viable sources of oil and gas.

Wow! Did you read that- okay read it again:

Initially discovered by Mobil in the closing months of Vietnam War drama in late 1974, basement reservoirs off the South Vietnam shores proved to be viable sources of oil and gas.

Like many of the biotic believers, I had difficulty believing that I was able to locate such an assertion. I had to re-read the article several times, and still feel a need to research further, but if accurate, this is evidence of the oil industry's knowledge in the controversial science, way back in 1974. Mind you, this is what one of my "oil insiders" indicated-but the evidence is much more difficult to locate. Seven Sisters : Biggest Oilcompanies


Leonardo Maugeri
SCIENCE AND INDUSTRY: Oil: Never Cry Wolf--Why the Petroleum Age Is

Leonardo Maugeri

After World War I, the United States was shaken by predictions of the exhaustion of domestic oil. Even the head of the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS)--among many others--delivered a verdict of gloom in 1919: The country would run out of oil within 9 years! (1) Facing mounting hysteria, President Coolidge set up the Federal Oil Conservation Board in 1924, to draft legislation to preserve national resources. After the conversion of Great Britain's naval fleet from coal to oil in 1914, the UK also feared that it would be vulnerable to oil shortages and moved to secure its grip on the Persian Gulf. These cycles of hysteria followed by new bonanzas have continued to the present. Thus, it is not surprising that a new wave of "oil doomsters" predicting imminent petroleum scarcity has gained momentum (2-4).

The worst effect of this recurring oil panic is that it has driven Western political circles toward oil imperialism and attempts to assert direct or indirect control over oil-producing regions. Yet the world is not running out of oil, and catastrophic views fail to take into account the complex reality that will allow reliance on abundant supplies for years to come.

Full Article:

Yes, the process of Biotic oil forming constantly at high pressures from the magma seeping into deep basement rock reservoirs has been proven scientifically solid. It has been duplicated in the laboratory.

And use Google Earth Imaging to have a comparitive look at night at the Siberian oil fields and the giant Saudi oilfields, and you will be amazed at the amount of light emitted in Siberia from fackling off exessive gasses from their fields, compared to the Saudi fields. Its much bigger now...
And these Siberian fields dig miles deep.

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[edit on 16/10/2005 by Mirthful Me]

posted on Oct, 16 2005 @ 07:31 PM
link Newsweek.

"On Sept. 10, 2001 NEWSWEEK has learned, a group of top Pentagon officials suddenly canceled travel plans for the next morning, apparently because of security concerns."

Was the Navy ONI the one agency that had not been compromised by the planners of 9/11? Could that be one of the reasons that the Naval Command Center was destroyed? Consider the following:

Al Martin's book "The Conspirators" ( ) is a secret history of the late 20th century and an uncensored version of what really goes on in the back rooms of realpolitik brokers and go-fers. - In his book, Al writes that contrary to popular belief, ONI is the most powerful US intelligence agency. "The ONI already had a deep existing covert illegal structure. They had a mechanism before the CIA even existed. They had contacts in foreign intelligence services and in foreign governments that the CIA never could have hoped to obtain."

"The only people the CIA wouldn't step on to accomplish their aims was ONI. They would easily subvert an FBI or DEA investigation, but never ONI, because they were frightened of them." - "ONI is where the real deep control is. It's where the real deep secrets are kept. That was what ONI always did the best. Keeping secrets. Accumulating secrets. Warehousing secrets for the purposes of control."

"When I asked him 'what secrets?' he replied, "One thing I can tell you is the ONI was instrumental in dethroning former Mexican President Louis Portillo. Portillo got very friendly with George Bush and the CIA, and ONI had never alligned with the Bush faction. I know what people think, but that's not true. From what I can tell, it has never been aligned, but has always been hostile to that Eastern Country Club Bush Cabal and their friends in the CIA. The Bill Casey faction is the George Bush-Allen Dulles Faction."

Not a very nice idea, is it? That the United States has been taken over by a coup d'etat, that the secrets of the ways and means of keeping "American Freedoms" may have been destroyed in the WTC 1, 2, 6 and 7, and in a few selected rooms of the Pentagon.

posted on Oct, 16 2005 @ 07:36 PM
link :

Fourteen huge, permanent bases are currently under construction in Iraq, along with the world's biggest embassy in Baghdad (3,500 employees, and counting). Bush will continue on a permanent war footing in the Middle East in order to protect U.S. dollar hegemony. There is no other option. All future wars will be run out of Iraq. Iran has been making noises lately about ditching the U.S. dollar in favor of the euro, as have the Saudis. They're next. The U.S. will dismantle OPEC and surround Saudi Arabia, keeping their hand firmly on the oil spigot. This is the essence of the petro-dollar warfare that we are witnessing, in a nutshell....

[edit on 16/10/05 by LaBTop]

posted on Oct, 16 2005 @ 07:51 PM

These lights are widely used as emergency exit signs.
The WTC buildings were full of them.
That could have caused the high tritium counts in the WTC dust samples.

[edit on 16/10/05 by LaBTop]

posted on Oct, 16 2005 @ 08:09 PM

The day before 9/11, Rumsfeld finally admitted to the press that two trillion dollars had gone missing from the Pentagon's books. Now, how long did this scandal stay in the headlines? What personnel, offices, and/or records were located in the destroyed section which might have related to this? These are the sort of questions that I find interesting, not the obsession with what did or did not hit the building. The evidence for explosives can be considered without getting mired down in that sideline, since it could fit just as well with 757 or no-757, so its just a moot point. It could be that the Pentagon strike was more than just for the purpose of fake terror -- it may have been like Oklahoma City, where a depository of sensitive federal records in the Murrah Building (said to connect to Iran-contra, Iraqgate, or other similar subjects) was conveniently destroyed in a kill-two-birds operation. This is one reason I'm critical of the Pentagon no-plane quagmire, because I think it distracts from the truly interesting possible leads.
But even some of the no-plane advocates have contributed some helpful ideas in this regard, on their off hours. Some speculations by Dick Eastman on the possibility that dissident factions in the military may have been targeted by the Pentagon operation:

I'm not qualified to judge the specifics of this kind of speculation, but I think that this sort of inquiry represents a much more fruitful direction of effort in Pentagon 9/11 investigation.

And, even if at some point the apparent anomalies pointing to explosives could be explained away, there are still many anomalies pointing to "inside job" that don't require a no-757 claim, as has so often been pointed out by many observers. Illogical approach path, illogical choice of target area, impossible piloting skills for alleged hijacker Hani Hanjour, and so on.

+ + +

This being said, when Dick Eastman stays in a domain where he has skills, his reflexions can be brilliant. Here is one of them about the possible cause of targeting the first floor of the west aisle of the Pentagon, which houses the operational center of US naval intelligence :

Since the Clinton years, intelligence, especially in reference to the CIA, has been divided into the so-called "Red Team" of internationalists (giving the store away to China etc.) and the "Blue" team (more nationalistic and loyal to the Constitution) -- like the difference between George C. Marshall (elitist and China sellout) and MacArthur (anti-Communist, not of the secret aristocracy that is the eastern establishment power elite like the Rockefellers, Harrimans, Bush Familty etc.)

Naval Intelligence had a degree of autonomy -- the idea was that if one intelligence center was compromised there would be a second intelligence center to detect the treason and give the warning.

Naval Intelligence was not on the same teams of Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz, the political leadership believe in ends-justify-the-means Machiavellian crimes that the cloak of secrecy allows them to get away with, whereas the organizational leadership of Naval Intelligence would not go along with killing over 2000 of our own people in order to light a fire of war fever under the American public.

If not destroyed, Naval Intelligence would have detected the truth and acted in the appropriate way -- the way you and I are reacting just in the capacity of alert ordinary citizens -- but they would have been listened to because of who they were.

Rumsfeld-Wolfowitz had not fired, killed, re-assigned all the many patriotic Defense workers who would have given them trouble by the time they were ready for the 9-11 frameup -- they found it easier to order them all to attend a secret meeting at the specified room where they were all caught and killed by the combination of missile and jet fighter that tunneled through the first floor and got them. A dive from above would not have worked as the concrete floors of the five story building would have limited damage to people on the first floor -- the fireball going up from the upper floors and not down.

This meeting in a ring C meeting room, in the the west aisle of the Pentagon, with top brass and people of the NIS "to analyse the ongoing attack" is not something out of Dick Eastman's brain : it's real. It's enough to have a look on this ( ) page or to that one ( ) to be convinced. Finding who organized this meeting and chose the meeting room could be of the highest importance for finding the truth on the Pentagon's attack.

Oct 04, 2001
One for Humanity and One for her Country , by Duey Graham.

Angela M. Houtz

The daily commute was like any other that Tuesday as Bob Houtz stopped for gas at Cahill's on Route One until he heard the news from an attendant. En route from his home in Nobleboro to his job as Chef for the Ocean Point Inn, Houtz watched the second plane hit the Trade Center before heading onto Ocean Point, his mind racing with target scenarios. His older daughter, a Latin and South American affairs expert for the NIS, was in Washington, D.C. and could be in harm's way.

Reaching Ocean Point, he was told that a third plane had hit the Pentagon and he instantly felt empty and scared but confident Angela would call when she could. A Senior Analyst for Naval Intelligence, Angela worked in the refurbished and reinforced section that was struck by Flight 77 but he was not quite sure where. Calling her apartment with hope that Angie would answer, Bob learned from her roommates that the Navy was looking for her too; the phrase "unaccounted for" was tearing at his hope. After phoning younger daughter Jaime, a nurse in hometown LaPlata, Maryland the family could only wait. When no further word came by eight that night, reality hit home hard.

Angela's Commander called at 2 p.m. and confirmed the worst. Angela Houtz was in a C-ring meeting with 17 other top-level Pentagon analysts, investigators and generals who had just gathered to dissect the ongoing Trade Towers attack when Flight 77 plowed through two outer rings before engulfing the room where they met. "She was working in the big leagues for the Joints Chiefs of Staff," stated Commander David Radi, Angie's boss for over a year.

1 General was killed at 9/11..... And the article talks about generals. And they were in the C-ring, with 2 other rings between them and the incoming plane.
If so, that must have been meticulous planning, to eliminate them so far from the Pentagon walls. It must have been VERY close to that famous circular EXIT HOLE.
Only a rain of very fast moving depleted-uranium particles or a nearby shape-charged explosion could have secured the outcome of a planned assassination attack on ONI analysts and Army accounting and auditing personnel in the way of possible 9/11 planners.

posted on Oct, 17 2005 @ 01:44 PM

Originally posted by LaBTop

If so, that must have been meticulous planning, to eliminate them so far from the Pentagon walls. It must have been VERY close to that famous circular EXIT HOLE.
Only a rain of very fast moving depleted-uranium particles or a nearby shape-charged explosion could have secured the outcome of a planned assassination attack on ONI analysts and Army accounting and auditing personnel in the way of possible 9/11 planners.

or a DEW, right? btw, keep it coming, seems like you're in a hurry

posted on Oct, 19 2005 @ 10:21 AM

Computed origin times and seismic magnitudes are listed in Figure 1.
Origin times with an uncertainty of 2 s were calculated from the arrival times of Rg (Rayleigh) waves at PAL using a velocity of 2 km/s.

For a seismic Rg signal to reach the PAL station from the WTC site through that specific bedrock inbetween, about 17 sec.(at 2km/sec) pass, since the distance from WTC to PAL is 34 km. See description of fig.4 in the .pdf-link for an explanation.
So that could have been minimal 15 sec to maximal 19 sec, when one includes the 2 sec uncertainty.

Conclusion 1: The zero points in the LDEO graphs are the visually and news-networks recorded timestamps of all of the WTC collapses, and you must go to the 15 to 19 seconds points, to compare visual and recorded times of starts of collapses with seismic data of the collapses, which arrived about 17 sec later at the Pallisades seismic station.

Now we have to interprete the conclusions of another (forensic) geoscientist, prof. Wallace, from the University of Arizona, who is mentioned in above report from dr. Kim from LDEO at Columbia university, where prof. Wallace stated this in the following article on Jun 03, 2002 :

The terrorist bombing of the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City on April 19, 1995, was also seismically recorded. The first seismic records looked unusual, and prompted some researchers to conclude two separate blasts -- that is, two separate bombs -- were involved, Wallace said. But when the Murrah Building later was demolished, the seismic record was identical leaving experts to conclude there had been a single terrorist bomb. "In some sense this is derivative, but it's really important for providing independent constraints on what happened," Wallace said.

Prof. Wallace's forensic-seismologic conclusion is however strongly countered by this conclusion from March 20, 1996:

The End Notes Section, full of References from the book written by David Hoffman :
The Oklahoma City Bombing and the Politics of Terror :

Then on March 20, 1996,Strategic Investment Newsletter reported that a Pentagon study had been leaked which backed up General Partin's analysis:
A classified report prepared by two independent Pentagon experts has concluded that the destruction of the federal building in Oklahoma City last April was caused by FIVE separate bombs. The two experts reached the same conclusion for the same technical reasons. Sources close to the Pentagon study say Timothy McVeigh did play a role in the bombing but peripherally, as a "useful idiot." The multiple bombings have a Middle Eastern "signature," pointing to either Iraqi or Syrian involvement. [ref.60]"
A classified Pentagon study determines Oklahoma bombing was caused by more than one bomb," Strategic Investment Newsletter, 3/20/96.

Did the DoD (the Pentagon) and FBI not inform prof. Wallace about this much older classified report originating from a Pentagon study by themselfs, and let him come to a nowadays more favourable conclusion?
Does this also implement that seismic reports are not sensitive enough to detect strategically placed cutter charges on weightbearing collumns in buildings such as the Murrah Building, so also not sensitive enough to detect eventual cutter charges in all the WTC buildings which came down on 9/11 ?

Conclusion 2 : It surely looks like that.

NOTE: University of Arizona forensic-seismologist prof. Terry C. Wallace personal website: is now "Forbidden", while all other faculty scientist's personal websites are still open to the public.

Is his forensic seismologic work too sensitive to be seen by others?
Comparable behavior to nowadays standard procedures from the FBI, who still won't release, after 4 long years have passed, some simple Pentagon impact video recordings, basing this on the fact that those recordings are so utterly important in a pending case against a caught terrorist who already confessed.
That's more important than to show the whole world what exactly happened?

Do they have to hide one or more Pentagon defensive missile(s) fired at flight 77 and impacted it just before it hit the wall, or is there more to see than the public really wants to see? All these kinds of questions keeping all the visitors of websites like these could be answered in a few minutes by releasing these tapes.
But that one supposed terrorist's court case outclasses the curiosity of the rest of worlds populations.
These guys seem to always need a JFK Magruder film. So the impact of proof can be quenched by too many years gone by, when at last some honest scientists can interprete the real data.

Please see this exellent website from Russell Pickering with quite a lot of formerly unknown pictures and info about the Pentagon attack :
and while you are at it, also have a look at the very strange radar avoiding pattern of all 4 airplanes on 9/11 :
"They" cunningly exploited vulnerabilities in the radar that only the US Military and the FAA should have been aware of.

posted on Oct, 19 2005 @ 01:07 PM
Also from The End Notes Section, full of References from the book written by David Hoffman, reference 55 mentions this :

55. Some rescue workers, it was also rumored, had become ill with mysterious illnesses. They suffered from physical exhaustion and could barely drag themselves to work, it was reported, although these reports have not been substantiated. Of the 43 FEMA dogs that took part in the rescue effort, four died and one became ill. Rumors quickly spread that the dogs had died of radiation poisoning. The body of one of the deceased dogs, it was claimed, had been exhumed, his lungs found to be radioactive. The culprit was supposedly a radioactive isotope called Tritium. A heavy form of hydrogen, Tritium is an essential ingredient in nuclear weapons. In microscopic quantities it is also used as a "tracer" in medical procedures — injected into the bloodstream as an aid in radiology scanning.

Tritium poisening would be extremely difficult to trace and proof if not suspected.
See the Betalight post above.
Why does FEMA etc not include warnings in their manuals that betalight emergency exit-signs contain Tritium gas, which will contaminate big building disaster sites at least in the first day, especially if the disaster happens on a windless day?
The same mysterious illnesses and exhaustion signs were reported by rescue workers after the WTC cleanup.
And by other New Yorkers randomly in the years after.

I am still worried by the dust deposits left behind by the WTC building collapses.
And why there are no isotopes charts to find from the dust samples taken by the USGS, or anybody else, while there were reports from concerned federal personell who took their Geiger counters outside on the balcony and on the streets in New York and near the Pentagon and found elevated isotope counts that day. One woman in a government position called her colleagues asking them to also use their geigers and all found substantially higher than normal background counts.
Dust chart on page 4 (right side) from this USGS .pdf file (could a helpfull hand post it, I can't) : (blow up to 200% to clearly read it)

WTC dust sample range = blue vertical bars
WTC dust sample mean = yellow horizontal bars
Eastern US soil mean = red horizontal bars ( mean values found around New York in former years)
For comparison, 1 percent equals 10,000 parts per million.

When New Yorkers would compare this deliberately logarithmically plotted %-chart (to fit into that page) against a more honest impression giving linear plotted chart they can produce themselfs with the same data of the USGS percentages, they would realize there was something really wrong with the message of then mayor Guiliano that - "there was nothing to worry about, back to normal folks!"

This is another image of the simple dust chart -without- the Eastern US soil mean red bars from the Chemical Compositions page originating from the Main USGS-html-Report :

external image

posted on Oct, 19 2005 @ 06:45 PM
Pentagon decontamination efforts :

external image
There certainly seemed to be concern for some sort of contamination, shortly after 9/11. Notice please that handshoes, legs and shoes or boots are concentrated on, I would do that too when Depleted Uranium contamination is expected. If any other form was expected, like chemical or biological contamination, a whole HAZMAT equipment would have been used by ALL people involved.
And those two in blue are happily running around without protective gear whatsoever, only their shoes are rubbed in.
It is also indicative of "editting", that those 2 white containers at the bottom right of the picture are without labels you could read. The other 2 white brush-dipping buckets are obviously empty paint or plaster buckets.

And did you catch THAT?

AMEC Construction Management, a subsidiary of the British engineering firm AMEC, renovated Wedge One of the Pentagon before 9-11 and cleaned it up afterward. AMEC had also renovated Silverstein's WTC 7, which collapsed mysteriously on 9-11, and then headed the cleanup of the WTC site afterward. The AMEC construction firm is currently in the process of closing all its offices in the United States.

I suppose, they are back in Britain now, and unable to answer any nagging questions from US citizens.

Around the Pentagon there were reports of high radiation levels after 9-11.

American Free Press has documentation that radiation levels in Alexandria and Leesburg, Va., were much higher than usual on 9-11 and persisted for at least one week afterward. In Alexandria, seven miles south of the burning Pentagon, a doctor with years of experience working with radiation issues found elevated radiation levels on 9-11 of 35 to 52 counts per minute (cpm) using a "Radalert 50" Geiger counter. One week after 9-11, in Leesburg, 33 miles northwest of the Pentagon, soil readings taken in a residential neighborhood showed even higher readings of 75 to 83 cpm. "That's pretty high," Cindy Folkers of the Washington-based Nuclear Information and Resource Service (NIRS) told AFP. Folkers said 7 to 12 cpm is normal background radiation inside the NIRS building, and that outdoor readings of between 12 to 20 cpm are normal in Chevy Chase, Md., outside Washington. The Radalert 50, Folkers said, is primarily a gamma ray detector and "detects only 7 percent of the beta radiation and even less of the [very short lived] alpha." This suggests that actual radiation levels may have been significantly higher than those detected by the doctor's Geiger counter. "The question is, why?" Folkers said. If the radiation came from the explosion and fire at the Pentagon, it most likely did not come from a Boeing 757, which is the type of aircraft that allegedly hit the building. --- "Boeing has never used DU on either the 757 or the 767, and we no longer use it on the 747," Leslie M. Nichols, product spokesperson for Boeing's 767, told AFP.

And as usual, no official institute acted upon these alarming figures from scientifically schooled citizens, and started an official investigation.
The same way as the USGS samplers were halted by directions straight out the White House, when they asked for more sample takers and a broader investigation, beyond the initial scope of investigation of possible asbestos contamination. Especially to get access to the most interesting site to sample, the WTC site itself, they were not let in.

Pentagon - 9/11 - Geiger counter readings

Dr. Sherman (77 years old) was downwind from the Pentagon on 9/11 and her Geiger counter readings show an extremely high reading, a reading of more than eight to ten times higher than normal," said Moret, also an expert in the cause and effects of depleted uranium.
"Dr. Sherman, who is well-respected radiation expert herself, then went about contacting the proper authorities in order to try and alert emergency responders of the radiation risk at the Pentagon crash site. And we have also kept photos of the Geiger counter readings in order to verify what Dr. Sherman found 12 miles away."
After notifying the Nuclear Industrial Safety Agency (NIRS), experts from the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the FBI were alerted and according to Moret, radiation experts later confirmed high radiation levels at the Pentagon crash site possibly from the presence from depleted uranium or other unknown causes.

I have never seen an official evaluation of radiation experts from the EPA, if you go looking on the EPA site, you encounter mostly "outdated pages" when looking for 9/11 events.

This simple technology could potentially provide vital information in a scenario of unimaginable complexity.

They measured the sensitivity of five radioactivity detectors against a panel of the seven most common radionuclides used in medical procedures. Then, collaborating with Michael Stabin, PhD, from Vanderbilt University, an expert in calculating excretion rates of radiopharmaceuticals, Zuckier combined these numbers with the radioactivity given to patients for various procedures to determine how long patients could trigger alarms at a monitoring distance of one meter.
The results were presented at the annual meeting of the Radiological Society of North America in November 2004. Iodine therapy for thyroid cancer or overactive thyroid can set off alarms for up to 95 days. Thallium, used in diagnostic cardiac exams, can be detected for up to 30 days. Bone and thyroid scans can trigger alarms for up to three days, and PET scans less than one day.----
His current vision includes a network of Geiger counters placed strategically throughout New Jersey, which would provide the crucial information necessary to identify "hotspots" in a radiation emergency. So far, his idea for this inexpensive warning system (each Geiger counter costs about $200 and needs to be hooked up to a personal computer) has not taken off

That is a great idea, but doesn't seem to ring a bell at government level. There really is a huge gap between the ideas of the ruled and the rulers and it seems growing with every passing day.
Every New Yorker, well, every other main city inhabitant with a 24/7 internet connection should email this mr Zuckier and enlist for his gadget, so he can offer decision makers a huge list of citizens willing to participate in a nation wide early alarm system, which could be paid by concerned taxpayers themselves, to show their government they really mean it now.
For immediate personal alarm 24/7, you could use this Personal & Compact Key Chain Attachable 24/7 Radiation Monitor & Alarm :

Tritium gas relatively harmless

Paradoxically, tritium exit signs are quite common within the U.S.A., especially in older buildings.---Health concerns: Tritium emits beta particles, which cannot pass through the glass of the tube. Tritium is only mildly radioactive, --; even direct, short-term exposure to small amounts is pretty harmless. If a traser vial should break, one should leave the area and allow the gas to diffuse into the air.

The problem is, New Yorkers were adviced not to leave the area on 9/11.
And Tritium is not the main concern here, mercury f.ex. from mercury switches; hundredthousands of broken TL tubes, etc., etc., and where did those isotopes readings on the Geiger counters come from.


posted on Nov, 4 2005 @ 10:11 AM

You mentioned the video of Morelli you could not view...I can see the video and he does talk about being thrown to the ground, he explains it to himself by saying the freight elevator had crashed down not far away. But he also goes on to say the walls were coming down around him, doesn't sound like an elevator damage to me.

Anyway have you viewed the video yet? It might be that you have a firewall and you have selected to not allow real player to access the internet, I use Zone Alarm, so make sure if you do too, that in "programs" you have real player set to "always ask" for permission, rather than always deny. And when you click to view you have to "allow" real to access the internet.

Failing this I can't save the video to disc and it also doesn't appear in TIF folder, so they must have some sort of protection on it. So the only way I can see to help you out would be to transcribe it for you, which I will do when I have read this thread and your other one and I have a bit of time to do it.


[edit on 4/11/2005 by Wig]

posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 04:02 PM
Wig , I've seen the video already,and it was a firewall problem, just as you also thought now. Thanks for trying to help, it is appreciated.

The elevator coming down, and the construction of the elevator shaft, is still a point of investigation on my to-do list. If the shaft wasn't a reinforced concrete one, but drywall plates, then the "potatoe-gun" theory doesn't fit the picture. Any buildup of pressure by the falling cabin, downward in -front- of the cabin, and the subsequent explosion in the shaft of leaked-in airplane fuel -behind- it, would have blown out the drywalls somewhere on the way down, far before the much stronger elevator doors would have been blown out.
And don't forget, there must have been more shaft-doors, on the way down from the point of airplane-impact.
That impact must have cut the bearing cables of a few elevators by high velocity flying-in plane parts and building debris.

As long as NIST or anybody else doesn't put the WTC engineering firm's shop-drawings online, it will be a meticulous job for us to construct a believable picture of the exact construction of these elevator shafts.

I have a few comments to make on those theoritical reports of elevators coming down and blowing doors out.
(Explicit Note1: leaked plane-fuel, and it's gasses, build-up in the shafts and then exploding, caused by the sparks of the brakes and/or parts of the crashing car scraping the rails and shaft, is a totally different theory).
(Note-2: The service elevators were the -only- ones which went from the basement all the way up to the top floors of both towers. All other ones were devided in 3 trajectories, all their shafts tops and bottoms separated quite some distance from eachother.
So how jet fuel can jump 2 or 3 times -in a few seconds- from shaft to shaft through closed doors (or blocked by cars with open doors!) and then at last explode in EXACTLY -all- the last elevator shaft trajects where there was no external force to cut cables, and no sparks, needs really be explained to me by a Voice of Reason (Howard Roark?).
So the ONLY elevator car able to come down and blow basement doors out MUST have been the service elevator car.
All other reports of blown out LOBBY doors must have been caused by explosions in the BASEMENTS.
A lot of windows of the lobby were also blown out outwards.
Remember, the lobby was not stainted black from burning or exploded jet fuel, people were burned and one was chared to death in his chair at a lobby boot, but no soothed remnants of jet fuel were seen in the lobbies of both towers when the first NYFD firemen entered the lobby. To my knowledge, they also didn't smell jet-fuel at that moment. (I'm not sure about that 100%, since I have to read still an awfull lot of final NIST report pages. I'll check also again the NYFD pages of surviver reports)
Read the Final NIST reports, and see the pics in there, to really get a clear picture, and to be able to draw conclusions, which was not possible before the Final NIST reports came out on 26 October 2005.)

1. - For a service-elevator car crashing down and hence the air-pressure of this crash to be able to blow doors out in the BASEMENT levels, there must have been a few conditions in place at the moment of the crash :
......a.-The shaft must be of reinforced concrete or steel plates at minimal the point of ignition.
..........If it were dry walls all the way, it becomes an impossible theory.
......b.-There must be no other doors on the way down.
......c.-The safety-brakes on all crashing elevators must not have functioned.
..........These brakes are damn strong, and (expected) tested for at least 3x the
..........max load of the elevator-cars. They are also functional during electrical
..........power losses.
......d.-The car must have been at a minimum level above the basement levels,
..........where it was able at all to build up enough pressure to blow doors out the basement levels, and can't have been higher than the plane's
..........impact point, since in that case the cables were not cut.
..........Here we have again a few sub-options :
............d1.-The car was at the max cable-cutting height, just under the impact point.
............d2.-The car was in the basement : no door can be blown out by the alone, then another explosion source must be opted for.
..................Interesting is, that both mr.Morelli and the Venezuelan janitor
..................from Reopen9/11 say that the door exploded, they don't say they
..................saw an elevator car. That one was prolly blown upwards, or was not
..................there at all when the explosion took place. Otherwise the car would
..................have blocked the explosion pathway and a hole above the door would
..................have been the explosion pathway.
..................And that same voice of reason from above could explain to me how -all- the
..................walls in the basement can have been downed by an already slowed
..................down explosion force (by closed doors, or even also a parked elevator car)
..................eminating from that service elevator shaft. If the doors were already open
..................during the explosion, the car must have been parked there just before,
..................with doors still opened.
............d3.-The car was inbetween any of these positions : between 1 floor
..................under plane impact and the minimum height where it could have up enough pressure to blow a basement door out.

2. - Now have a good look where the service elevator shafts were situated, and where the plane's wings impacted, the wings full with fuel, the fuselage tanks already partly emptied. The fuselage tanks hit the center of the -public- elevator shafts situated in the main core column packet.
The wing tanks could have spilled still fluid fuel in the service shaft. But the bulk of that fuel was at that moment mostly -exploding- already. And the rest needed time to flow into the shaft, or had the choice to spread out over all that huge office space. Not much could have spilled actually in the shaft.

3. - Another problem with the second theory: fuel explosions theories.
In especially the LOWEST trajectories of elevators there were big depressurize openings in ALL the roofs of all elevator shafts which extended above the floor level, so an accidental water flood from sprinklers or else could not leak in the shafts and cause short-circuits (see NIST report).
Thus also no miracle jet fuel jumping from one shaft trajectory to another shaft could flood over in these depressurize openings. Only through eventual -OPEN- doors, which means the cars were also on that floor, leaving damn little space to instantly -FLOOD- the shafts. That would have taken quite some time.
In fact the only places where jet fuel could flood in shafts were at the points of impact. When that fuel reached the bottom of the shafts, it had to fill up first the space between that bottom and the actual floorlevel, then sip through closed doors, sip over the floor space to the next elevator shaft trajectory, creep between closed doors or into open doors and sip through the tiny space between the elevator floor and the entrance, etc.

Can you imagine this scenario unfolding in a few seconds?
I don't.

Since Collin Powell read that huge list of lies to the UN assembly, and since they were all proven to be LIES, we can't and must not ever trust this US Administration and all their Allies.

Those lies caused the UNNESCESSAIRY death of hundreds of thousands of PRECIOUS lifes.

Those who voted these unscrupulous LIARS who planned all this, or allowed it to happen, in power, should be ashamed of themselves. And the second time they voted these violators of human rights, back in power again, they ought to know they voted for LIARS. They must have been living in an egocentric bubble for many years.
All these voters have made a grave mistake, and a lot of them are realizing it now, at last.
However, they also can still make a difference.

If you also can't reconcile it to your conscience anymore,
Do something about it ! NOW.

WHITEWASH your conscience, MAKE a CLEAN SWEEP.

One man's fault is another man's lesson.

[edit on 5/11/05 by LaBTop]

posted on Nov, 7 2005 @ 02:52 PM
Facts found online (NIST, 8-1 reports ; LDEO, dr. Kim reports) :

1. - WTC 1. North Tower. First impact. Second collapse.
..................Plane impact 08:46:26 at 94th - 98th floors. Hit in the north facade center.
..................Top leaning 10:20
..................Collapse 10:28:31
2. - WTC 2. South Tower. Second impact. First collapse.
..................Plane impact 09:02:54 at 77th - 85th floors. Hit in the southwest facade corner.
..................Collapse 09:59:04
3. - WTC 7. North of WTC 1. Not impacted by a plane, but by debris from the WTC 1 collapse, the south facade resulting in center hole and southwest corner damage,
..................covering quite some floors up. Fires were left alone, north wind increasing them
..................over the hours.
..................First dent in penthouse roof visual at 17:20:46.
..................Collapse started 17:20:33 and ended 17:21:10.

Next, pay attention again to the following early eyewitness report :

Construction worker Phillip Morelli describes being thrown to the ground by two explosions while in the fourth subbasement of the North Tower. The first, which threw him to the ground and seemed to coincide with the plane crash, was followed by a larger blast that again threw him to the ground and this time blew out walls. He then made his way to the South Tower and was in the subbasement there when the second plane hit, again associated with a powerful underground blast. This is one of a series of interviews with WTC survivors done by NY1 News:

See for sure the video of his testimonial, offered in that link.

Next contemplate on the fact that LDEO closed it's only seismic station in Manhattan shortly before 9/11.
While you can see on their website (I gave the links already) that New York's and especially Manhattan's bedrock was frequently shaken by magnitude 2 to 2.3 earthquakes, and still is. A strange decision, regarding the value of New York's prime real estate. As an owner of expensive buildings (private or federal), I would like to know in advance if and when magnitudes of earthquakes were building up, warning me to sell my property (sarcasm), thus I would vehemently oppose that station's closing down. No reason given by LDEO for closing that seismic station.

You'd better download the NIST 1-8 report and it's NIST 1-8 Appendix A-L pages report to your harddisk, so you can perform offline Pdf-searches in the two pdf documents.
Highly advised searches are for the words "lobby", "standpipe" and "elevator". Check "on" or "off" all Pdf-Search extensions.
It can NOT be copied and pasted, "they" blocked that Pdf feature for all their final reports.
Especially nagging is, that diagrams and photo's are blocked also from copy/pasting.
I can only give you the page nrs where they appear, you have to go and see the pics yourselve.
Check the object security windows of all these final reports and this pdf document to see what they all blocked.
But at least I can read/comprehend and type quite fast, so that dirty trick was lost on me.
Here are the two links this post is based primarely on :

Appendixes A-L from NIST 1-8 report

NIST 1-8 report excerpts :

page 4/294 : "Disclaimer No. 3 "... and that 'disclosure of that information would inhibit the voluntary provision of that type of information' ... In addition, a substantial portion of the evidence collected by NIST in the course of the Investigation has been provided to NIST under nondisclosure agreements."

How convenient, to silence a double-check, second opinion investigation of the NIST reports.

---------------------------------------------- Concrete floor slabs, their steeldeck, reinforcing rods, suspended ceiling tiles :

See fig. 2-1 on page 256/514 Appendix-I : where did all this material go? Dried out concrete will still hold a substantial amount of water, which can literally explode under immens pressure. Could that be the reason we saw these huge explosion dust clouds when the WTC 1, 2 and 7 collapsed? Do we have pictures online of huge amounts of reinforcing rods or parts of them, or steel deck floor parts?

---------------------------------------------- Water supply, elevators, internal communication lines all defunct :

page 44/294 : ""... the fire chiefs who established the original Command Post inside the lobby of WTC 1 ... the buildings water supply was compromised ...and there were no working elevators that could transport fire fighters ... "

Strange that nobody addressed the grave implementations of these 2 remarks at a much earlier time.

1. - If the water supply was compromised, then that means that the water supply standpipes in the basement or somewhere very near, upwards, were damaged, otherwise the pressure holding emergency valves in the standpipes situated at various floors would have automatically closed their lower subsections from the ones above which lost pressure. Remember, that first plane impacted the 94th - 98th floors, thus only the top section of the standpipe system would have lost pressure, and the NYFD would have been able to roll out hoses from the highest pressure-holding valve points upwards to the fires.

Do a Pdf-search for "standpipes" in the NIST 8-1 Appendix report.
Check all little search options boxes "on" and then "off" also.
You get 20 results.
Have first a long look at Chapter 5. Hydraulics, starting at page 218/514.
Supplying high rise standpipe systems using NYFD pumpers did not work on 9/11 for ALL 3 towers, WTC 1,2 and 7.
Page 220/514 : So the FDNY Chiefs or/and the buildings Engineer had to have to check the buildings manually operated building fire pumps (legally required since 1968. Would you also like to know if all 3 building engineers were on duty or came shortly after plane impacts on duty. If not, where were they?). These pumps are in the pump room of high risers, which are normally located on the LOWEST floors (cellar or sub-cellar-cellar) See page 220, part 5.4.2, Pump room location.
No wonder these pumps could not be reached, we have testimony of the Venezuelan janitor who appears in a few long videos on the website from Jimmy Walters, that the basements were flooded with water, after one or more heavy bombs went off in the lowest cellars, and he barely could safe a burned colleague by helping him climbing out an elevatorshaft while the water was rising. This happened JUST after the building was hit! And the basement explosions happened again when the second building was hit...See also the interview with Philipp Morelli. (link provided in this post)
Page 224/514 "The primary supply in many buildings is a gravity tank (logically on the roof?) ... For these reasons, the primary water supply for Firefighting in most operations shall be the Fire Department pumpers."
How about that? That means that there must have been a BIG leak in the standpipe system in the cellars, near or at the flooded manual building pumps. Otherwise the FD pumpers would have pumped water up to upper floors.
No mention of that leak to be found. Strange indeed.
However, the Chief must first adhere to the Tactical Considerations found in page 228/514, he must adhere to point C.1 first, to clear a stairwell of all building occupants, when it is used to connect a line to a standpipe system. The pressures in the standpipes are very high when pumpers are used in high floors, up till 700 psi. When such a hose connection breaks, it can severely injure people trying to evacuate.
See also the duties of the first and second arriving FDNY Engine Company on page 251/514, subchapters 10.2.1C , 10.3.1 D and 10.4.1 D.
"Supply the standpipe and sprinkler systems as per section 5." and "stretch a hose line from the standpipe outlet on the floor below the fire in the designated stairway." "... correct nozzle pressure."

This was all not possible since there must have been a severe leak in the standpipes -in the cellars-!

2. - I find it just as strange that nobody seemed to have questioned the unexplained fact that NONE of the elevators in the WTC 1 lobby functioned, except one in the middle of the main columns packet, nr 50, which ended at the 16th floor.
And none functioned in the lobby of WTC 2, except one ending at the 40th floor.
See pages 112 and 113/294, WTC 1 and 2 lobby floors diagrams.
These elevators top floors ended FAR below the plane's impacted floors ! They were part of the first pack of elevators trajectory, then a second trajectory devided by a sky lobby (where passengers can change from one bank of elevators to another) started higher up, and the same goes for the third trajectory.
Were they all build as partly a blind shaft, running through the whole height of the building, with the working parts of the elevator banks shafts on top of them ? I suppose the real shafts bottoms were constructed from reinforced concrete with a significant thickness. ( see fig 7-3 on page 272/514 and fig 6-3 on page 266/514 of the Appendix)
I suspect that all these elevator cars inside the shafts running from the basements to the 16th and 44th floors were lifted up in the shafts by those explosions in both tower's deep basement elevator shaft bottoms mentioned by Philipp Morelli, then their automatic mechanical (not electrical) brakes came in when the cars fell down again, because at that short downwards trajectory they did not hang on their cables, accelerated beyond the build-in safety boundaries, and were thus stopped by their emergency brakes.
When FDNY Chiefs arrived shortly after, they tried the Firemen Service procedure to bring stuck elevator cars back to the main lobby or the sky lobbies. (see Appendix, page 134/514, 3.3.2 ) They did NOT succeed in both WTC 1 and 2.
That's a telltale-sign that the emergency brakes of ALL cars leading to the main lobby were activated, except the ones reported to have crashed down in the sky lobbies, at the third highest elevator trajectory, where plane parts had severed their bearing cables. So also the shuttle cars 11 and 12 in both buildings, going up to the 78th floors.

(See page 45/294 NIST 1-8) :

"From the time of the first airplane impact into WTC 1 to the collapse of WTC 2, a period of approximately one hour and 12 minutes, emergency responders inside WTC 1 were able to climb to floors in the 40s. However, a small number of emergency responders got to floors in the 40s by taking the only operating elevator nr 50 to the 16th floor and then using the stairs. A report from one building occupant indicated that they saw firefighters located on floors about in the 50s. (NIST 2004) Within WTC 2, one FDNY Batallion Chief and Ladder Company got to floors in the 70s. They were able to take an elevator from the lobby to the 40th floor before having to walk up the stairs. ..."

Both facts can ONLY be explained by a huge explosion in the BASEMENT that damaged most of the elevator shafts and/or the cars inside, and activated their brakes. Which explosions in BOTH buildings we have at least 2 eyewitness accounts of (In fact a few more, I read them), and must have been triggered by that mysterious yellow flash milliseconds before plane-impacts, reflecting from the windows of each WTC 1 -and- WTC 2.
I figure these specific colored, one specific wavelength laserlight signals (so no accidental preliminary ignition triggering signal could be send) were picked up by receivers, connected to one of the just lately "upgraded" IT-glassfiber cables and were the trigger signals for the super-thermite charges attached to the main collumns in the elevator shaft bottoms in the BASEMENTS of both towers at plane impact.
These flashes are observable in this latest video from Dave von Kleist (thanks to ATS member Musclor!), who remarks there, that you can verify these flashes yourself in the original footage from CNN, if you still obstinately believe that they were planted by "conspiracy artists".....
And the flashes were not the sun's reflections in the WTC windows or aluminum facade plates, the video angles are totally wrong for that option.

From my above post : "Remember, the lobby was not stainted black from burning or exploded jet fuel ..."

If exploding jetfuel gasses and the subsequent burning of fluid jetfuel still leaking in the elevator shafts would have caused the lobby elevator doors to blow out, a good part of the lobby space would have been soothed black.
When ever you see an airplane's fuel explode, there is a huge red/orange, and BLACK on the outskirts, ball of fire mixed with an abundance of SOOTH.
So observe these photo's of the WTC 1 lobby from the NIST 1-8 report:
page 114 (WTC 1), page 142 (WTC 1), page 189 (WTC 1), page 197 (WTC 1).
As if the cleaners just cleaned up, so spick'n span clean.

A high velocity EXPLOSION in the bottom of the elevator shafts (flooded ca. 2 meters high with a few cubic meters of water that would muffle the explosion sounds), which are all situated in the main columns packet, would however produce lots of white smoke, mixed with steam (white), and perhaps a titbit of sooth from other materials effected by that explosion. And the remnants of that explosion would be contained mostly to the point of explosion. That was the white smoke reported coming out of the blown out windows from the lobby fronts entrances by first responders.
However the pressure front of the explosion would certainly disfunction all elevator cars and shafts in the near vicinity, and the water droplets would shortcircuit most electronics, especially when salt seawater was used.
(See whole page 83/294) I mean the very shafts running from the lobby of both towers up to the 16th and 44th floors, and one shuttle to the 78th floor ( see 09:09 : Building not identified, which means that elevator banks 11 and 12, the shuttle elevators, are identically in both towers. See pages 112 and 113/294, WTC 1 and 2 lobby floors diagrams)
However, one car, nr 81A at the 78th floor in elevator 12 is reported stucked at 09:02 in WTC 1, the first tower impacted by a plane at the 94th to 98th floors. That's the top level of the 2 shuttle elevators running all the way up from the lobby to the 78th floor, the only pair of elevators doing that in both WTC 1 and 2.
That means that shuttle shaft was empty down to the lobby. AND, the Port Authority employee is STILL ALIVE ! That means that there was NO jetfuel vapours EXPLOSION after impact in that shaft running all the way down from 78th floor to the LOBBY ! He would have died, just as the guy sitting at his desk in the lobby who was chared. That must have been a very hot mix of high velocity explosion gasses, which I figure came from those 2 basement blasts in both towers which blew out walls there (reported by Phillip Morelli ), to be able to char a person to death sitting behind a desk. And not from a jetfuel vapours driven explosion in an elevator shaft, which has depressurizing openings at the top, many doors at many levels in the shaft, and prolly somewhere higher up some drywall platings screwed on shaft collumns, at higher than Mezzanine levels. So why should exactly the lobby doors give way first? If a car was at lobby level, the car and also its closed doors would have blocked most of a fuel explosion force first, before the car eventually was blown down into the cellars.
Another shuttle car on the 78th floor is reported stucked, but now in WTC 2, see page 274/294, at 09:53:53. There were 18 people inside, burned, but alive. Obviously burned by the heat of burning jetfuel or carpets in the 78th floor sky lobby, but not killed by a jet fuel vapours explosion in the shaft under their shuttle car.

---------------------------------------------- Preliminary WTC 1+2 collapse, white smoke is rising from WTC 7 :

He also steers your attention to smoke rising from beside and above the roof of WTC 7, far before EACH towers 1 and 2 collapsed.
Now, explain that smoke to me please with good reason.

It can not come from plane parts of the WTC 2 south tower impact, which perhaps hit WTC 7, since only the heaviest part of the plane, a motor, was found standing up on the corner of Vesey St and Church St, 200 meter to the right (west side) of WTC 7. And WTC 7's facade was then still obstructed from impacting plane parts by WTC 1, the north tower.
Btw, the plane hit the southwest corner of WTC 2, so the trajectory of plane parts was heading southwest, away from WTC 7 to the west.

I figure that whitish smoke comes from super-thermite cutting charges slicing through WTC 7's core columns, after that whole building was preliminary evacuated and even the OEM Command Center was ORDERED to be totally evacuated also at 09.44 a.m. on 9/11.
Wasn't that a titbit too early, according to good old plain logic ?
But how conveniently, and necessairy for the Planners. Who scrambled most building internal radio communications that day, see the reports regarding bad communication channels that day from NIST 1-8. It's a huge section. And the radio-repeater mast was not on top of WTC 1 or 2, so its cabling would have risked to be cut by planes impacts, but safely on the southwest roof corner of the WTC 5 building.(NIST 1-8, page 185, fig 7-1)

Why were at 09:00 orders received by the PAPD police desk, to evacuate WTC 1, B4 level (PAPD Radio Channel W)
That is one of the lowest basement levels in WTC 1...... Did someone needed an empty basement, or did they react on flooding of the basements?
See also page 85/294, at 08:50. WTC Security receives a message from an officer on the B2 (Basement) level of WTC 1 saying that there are two workers injured on that level and that EMS is needed "ASAP" (PA/WTC Security Radio Channel X).
That are for sure the two severely burned building engineers climbing out from the lower B3 and B4 basement floors through an open elevator shaft, which was flooding with water, and the Venezuelan janitor helped them out with an aluminium ladder he stuck in the shaft.
That part of the janitors story is at least confirmed.

---------------------------------------------- WTC Security, and John O'Neill, Channel X :

Now have a read on page 48/294 NIST 1-8, and conclude if you see the same pattern of coincidences here.
Start reading at "Communications:" and after the first word "lobby".
I figure some employees of the WTC buildings Security also had wondered why all these communication channels were defunct, and knew where the switch-cupboards were situated, had tried to check them, found the cellars innundated and the buildings waterpumps unaccessible, and probably blown up, and desperately were trying to find a secure hard telephone line (safe to other ears) on the 22nd floor security command center to report their finds to a source they trusted very well, untill the building suddenly collapsed on top of them. When solid proof found by them of co-conspiracy US based assistance to the "terrorists", who sabotaged preliminary most building communications, collumns, floors, elevators, water supplies, switchboards, electronic equipment etc.; then that could only be dealt with by the highest channels of command in the Secret Service, FBI or Presidency circles, they were trying to get that message out by the securest channels they knew of, their new Security command center hard encrypted safe land lines in the 22nd floor of WTC 2.
Their newly appointed WTC Security chief John O'Neill was trained to the teeth in his former FBI job to go look for preliminary traces of assistance to these obvious terroristic attacks, he also knew that the CIA had steered that former Egyptian army officer in 1992-93 to supply the 1993 WTC bombers with the necessairy explosive equipment. He didn't for sure trusted the other agencies and even his former FBI superiors, who had successfully blocked his investigation efforts into Osama bin Ladens networks.
See pages 276-277/294 : And read carefully all 11 timestamped remarks before that bolded out timestamp of 09:59 a.m. where WTC 2 collapsed:
Does it look to you also, that there were alarming developments for a Planner listening in to these radio communications?
Reports of firefighters via radio 'Channel 30 repeater', able to knock down some fires, and then proceeding to the actual impact floors in WTC 2 (77th to 85th floors), they had already access to the 79th floor via a stairwell ; the 'Channel X' communications of the WTC Security people nearly succeeding in operating a safe hard outside landline to report their suspicions and/or facts ; dozens of firefighters gathering in the WTC 2 lobby to go up ; firefighters trying to operate elevators on the 78th floor by using their special FDNY elevator-keys and getting stuck in one, advising others to try another elevator on that floor to get working, to go up or let it down to the lobby to pick up loads of firefighters waiting there ; and WTC Security Channel X reporting people coming out the elevator banks in the 78th floor Sky Lobby of WTC 2, the elevators there must be working again. People were gonna report what they saw, and firefighters were going to find proof and reporting it....
Then a Planner takes out in panic the Channel 30 repeater, the amplitude of the Channel 30 repeater drops suddenly to zero, and 1 minute later the same panicking Planner pushes, much too early according to the Plan, the demolition ignition key, as he finds out that Channel X from the WTC Security guys is still open ; and then the WTC 2 building explodes in a huge dust cloud, and is racing to the ground in 10 seconds ......

Mr John O'Neill's body was found weeks later, unchared, under a stairwell of WTC 2 (probably the basement, they had to dig deep and long for weeks). Anybody has access to the pathology report of his death? I think his family would had, and they reported nothing alarming. It could and would be forged ofcourse if powerfull people in the US government or above that government were involved. I hope for him he died quickly, instead of choking to death or even dying slowly from hunger and thirst and cold in a pitch dark tiny space under that stair, waiting desperate to be found and digged out. He took the last best chance and dived under that stairwell, but than his Creator didn't spare him any more luck. What a pitty for such a driven character to die this way, in that place, for one of his former government bosses who must have been complacent in the Planning of his destiny.

See :

O'Neill was on the 34th floor of the North Tower when the first plane hit. He had evacuated the building and was last seen alive by fellow FBI agent Wesley Wong outside the South Tower (WTC 2) about 15 minutes before it collapsed. His uncharred body would be found weeks later under a stairwell of that same building. John O'Neill --the Man who Knew--was dead at age 49.

He was the newly appointed Head of WTC Security, after he quitted his job at the FBI as Deputy Chief over his mistreatment by one of his superiors in the case of the FBI investigation on Osama Bin Laden.

See :

At the very bottom : "At one point, he was on his cell phone and he was having trouble with the reception and started walking away. I said, 'I'll catch up with you later.' Wong last saw O'Neill walking toward the tunnel leading to the second tower."

That's WTC 2, south tower, that is the first tower that collapsed at 09:59:02. So, at about 15 minutes earlier, around 09:44 he talked to Wong (an FBI agent; btw, a surprising amount of FBI agents were running around the towers in an early stage already, where did they all come from so fast?) He also talked to his girlfriend on the phone at 09:25 and stated to her he was standing safe outside."The connection was good at the beginning," she recalled. So probably he went to the tunnel just after 09:25. That gave him 34 minutes to investigate, before he got trapped in the collapse. Who knows what he encountered in the basements of WTC 2...

In the minutes after the attack, O'Neill makes his way to the command center that had been set up. There he sees FBI agent Wesley Wong. Wong would tell Esquire magazine later, "He was in FBI mode. Then he turned and kind of looked at me and went toward the interior of the complex. From the time John walked away to the time the building collapsed was certainly not more than a half hour or 20 minutes." Wong is the last person to see him alive.

I have somewhere a report of someone who saw him last at the 22th floor. How he ended up under a stairwell deep in the rubble, is forever unclear.

page 84/294. Have a close look at the 09:37 and 09:54 remarks (When O'Neill got that cellphone call around 09:44 which is by "coincidence" the exact time OEM Command Post build by Mayor Giuliano was ordered totally evacuated, and walked away to the WTC 2 tunnel, so NOT to the Command Post in the building to the right of the Bankers Trust (see page 111/294, red dot, CP, E10/L10) where he was ordered to, if he had followed the beneath by me mentioned radio message! That would have let him walking up to the lobby entrance stairs or around the corner of Liberty St, not the tunnel entrance of WTC 2. He surely wanted to go to the BASEMENT levels to check switchboards and for signs of explosions, he for sure remembered the parking garage blast in 1993 in the WTC.)

Remember, many rescue responders and building occupants reported that day and afterwards, bombs going off in WTC.
Some tried their best to get the WTC Security personnel OUT of the Towers!
Their obvious suspicion of inside involvement was getting clearer by the minute :
First at 09:37 : "All World Trade Center units to the Command Post." Then at 09:45 , a second remark : "WTC Security gets a request for crowd control on Broadway. Answer to the request is that the City police should be responding (PA/WTC Security Radio Channel X)"
That is that famous Channel X again, the one you can't find mentioned in the long list of communication channels from NIST at the end of NIST 1-8.
And that is also the most ridiculous request I could think of, during a calamity like 9/11. And WTC Security answered appropriately. Still, the fact stands, "they" tried to get them out of both buildings....
On page 275/294, at 09:53:53 that Channel X again, and then at 09:52:43 and 09:54:05 and :40 , we read that famous remark "we got an isolated pocket of fire and need at least two hand lines up there. K". That was floor 78, where Chief Palmer reports at 09:53:53 numerous civilian fatalities and 18 burned elevator car passengers, entrapped in that 78th floor Sky Lobby elevator in WTC 2. Another shuttle car stuck at an 78th floor, now not in WTC 1 but in WTC 2. So also in WTC 2 at least one of bank nr 11 or 12 shuttle elevators is stuck up there, having blocked eventual fuel flow in the shaft at time of plane impact, and passengers burned, but still alive, not killed by a fuel explosion in the shaft below that car. That indicates again, that at least no explosion occured in that shaft from fuel gasses which could have blown out doors at the lowest level in the lobby of WTC 2. These doors were blown out by something different, much more powerfull and hot.

Then just after that "isolated pocket of fire" remark over the radio, WTC 2 collapsed, at 09:59:04, prematurely, concidering the lesser damage inflicted by that impacting plane which hit at the southwest corner of WTC 2 and the much lesser effects of the remaining burning fires. Most of the jet fuel exploded outside the building and burned up in open air.
It surely looks as if someone had to hit the ignition key prematurely somewhere (best bet is the WTC 7 OEM, where all the radio channels could be monitored), too many disturbing facts arose over the radio channels, overheard and registered/logged by too many non-insiders of the Plan.

Now you have read the above, do a NIST 1-8 Pdf-Search with the words " Channel X ".
You get 99 results.
You will observe the messages from that radio channel with another mindset.
Then also do a Pdf-Search with the words " WTC Security ".

---------------------------------------------- ESU teams :

Have also a look at the positioning of the NYPD ESU command posts, both left and right of WTC 7. It looks as if these emergency service units from the NY police were protecting that building, for the suspicious minded onlooker.
Remember, an ESU unit had to shoot out a WTC 7 window at ground level at the south facade, when they were "trapped" there. What time exactly that was, is still not 100% clear to me.
Such an ESU unit outfit would be the ideal camouflage for a special unit of the Planners, which had the task of removing human obstacles to the Plan. A convenient added value of such camouflage would be the helmets worn (to be seen at photo on page 217/294) so facials would be difficult to remember, gloves to hide fingerprints, and the WEAPONS they could run around with, in clear sight, and nobody would think anything bad about it on that day. The US part of the Planners knew that what they were planning and executing would mean the electric chair for them, whenever they, at any stage of their operation, got exposed.
See also page 87/294, at 09:22. "A FDNY Batallion Chief now located on floor 43 of WTC 2 receives a message from a FDNY member that NYPD ESU oplice officers are in the building and want to provide support for him ..." He directs them to his location on floor 43 in the B stairway. If this was a fake ESU team, they could have been heading to the 22th floor, where those WTC Security personnel people were trying to open a secure hard telephone line, and stop them. I can be wrong ofcourse.
Have also a look at page 116/294, about an ESU team : "reluctantly complied with his order."
Perhaps an "ESU" team was hunting (deemed critical) human obstructives to the Plan. Who had to be eliminated at all costs and risks. Such a risk would be having to report to a real commanding officer of ESU or FDNY or PDNY or PAPD.
Then look at page 89/294, at 09:54. "a message indicates that an officer is located on floor 22, fire command center and that there is heavy traffic in the B stairway. The person indicates that they cannot release any emergency locked doors due to fire and the loss of electrical power (Note: Communication appears to originate from WTC 1.)"
I think it came in fact from WTC 2. The entrances to that WTC Security command center at the 22th floor were blocked, so nobody could see what happened inside, or had happened inside. Did the "fake ESU team" accomplished their task? And then shut of electrical power, so doors would automatically lock? We will perhaps never know. They had about 30 minutes to do what they came for, and leave the building alive themselves.
If they were not fake, and died, my sincere appologies to their next of kin.
Why I think it came from WTC 2? Because of that message on page 90/294, at 08:49, "WTC Security reports that there is damage and a lot of debris on floor 22 of WTC 1 (PA/WTC Security Radio Channel X)."
You can only observe that when no doors are blocked. And it's 65 minutes earlier reported.
Why did someone at NIST included that mischievious "Note" in that 09:54 report ? Did he know about something chilling what happened on floor 22 in WTC 2, and wanted to distract attention to it ?

Tapes to listen to, after a granted public disclosure request (pages 292-294/294) :

All 3 NYPD SOD tapes (page 294/294), the NY Police department Special Operations Division tapes.
Ch. 02WTC 2 phone 435-2131 SHO desk.wav (page 293/294) :
...I figure this to be the WTC 2, Security Head Office secured hard line, the 22th floor Security Command Center,
...or perhaps another abbreviation, Secure Hard Operations line.
...I'm convinced you will not get that one request granted under this Cheney led administration.
Ch. 02WTC 7 radio Ch. X.wav (this is not that famous Channel X, I suppose)
All the other WTC radio channels. (A-B-W-Y-Z-FDNY radio.wav = Ch.30) (page 293/294)
All other .wav files from WTC 2 and WTC 7.

Pdf page 294 = hardcopy page 240 if you ever need to calculate my page nrs against hardcopy page nrs.
Pdf page 55 = hardcopy page 1. That's the Chapter I, Introduction page.

---------------------------------------------- No forensic investigation :

One thing will be clear by now :
The NIST report is not a forensic investigation of all events and all of their possible causes.
It is just a huge smokescreen to camouflage that fact. It is only an attempt to report on structural failures, and how to learn from those by the wealthy. Any opposite views of the official view is rejected from the start.
But it is used by many US citizens and others to prove the "official" view.
The interesting fact is, that it can be used also to prove opposite views.
It's an immens amount of pages to read. And to comprehend.
Some will say or think I read to much again in these pages.
But dots wil be connected and a pattern wil emerge, when it is in there to be found.
That's the first step in any forensic investigation, see the possible patterns emerge.

---------------------------------------------- Voices of Reason & Mistrust :

For the sake of Reason,
read first carefully pages 90 and 91/294, which are hardcopy pages 36 and 37.
See then also page 224/294, at 10:07, the reports of NYPD helicopters Avation 6 and 14 hovering above WTC 1, reporting that collapse is imminent and inevitable.

For the sake of Mistrust,
...note that they report this seconds after they saw WTC 2 collapse, which they had not anticipated and expected and that must have made a deep impact on their trust in engineering.
We know since the Madrid high rise burn out lasting 24 hours, that red hot fires didn't take that building down, just partially, the main structure withstood the partial collapses in the upper floors. Yes, no plane involved, but it burned 23 times longer.
...How the police desk officer - reacting 5 minutes after the plane had hit WTC 1 - to the "call that an explosion was observed in the basement of the B1 level of WTC 1" came to the conclusion "that what he saw resulted from an explosion on the upper floors of the building (PAPD Radio Channel W)", is uncertain but at least a bit far stretched for any NIST-reports mistrusting attitude.
...Do american engineers not insert flexible couplings in firefighting standpipes and water mains pipes? Especially in high rises, which are much more sensitive for exceptional vibrations caused by heavy street traffic, windload, earthquakes...bombings.
...That WTC 1 floor 22, was it perhaps confused with the WTC 2 floor 22, where the Security command center was situated. Did someone blow up the wrong floor?

At 10:20 to 10:29 (page 281/294) "A few companies reach the WTC 1 lobby where they find destruction. ..."
Voice of Reason : ofcourse, the building is coming apart.
Voice of Mistrust : ofcourse, that's the result of the collapse debris of WTC 2. The building is ready to get finished off.
At 10:28:31 WTC 1 also collapsed on top of so many more heroic spirits :

10:24 a.m. it........Then salute to all these altruistic lifesavers who paid the ultimate price.

* * * *We need to be unconditionally sure that they did not serve, and perhaps even voted, an evil Administration.* * * *

posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 12:44 PM
reply to post by LaBTop

This post is a follow-up on my second post and next ones at the first page of this in 2005 opened thread by me about the possibility of mini nukes used on 9/11.
Read that second post of mine at page 1 first, if you want to get a clear picture of what I presented in 2005, and compare it to this 2012 follow-up post.

(Don't forget to read all the other, next posts on page 1 and especially 2, about the Gulf War Games with the straight-talking Marine commander who had been brought out of retirement to lead Force Red. His name was Lt. Gen. Paul Van Riper (Ret.). And he was the most probable reason why the USA plus Israel have not yet invaded Iran.
I highly respect no-nonsense guys like Van Riper...Hope he is still around, kicking behinds...).

This whole SEVEN YEARS old thread of mine should still open some eyes.....

On 15 to 17 June 2012 Jim Fetzer organized The Vancouver Hearings.
This is his Hearings website with tons of information :

This is Donald Fox his website with more detailed covering of a few speakers :

There was another interesting link about Jeff Prager on the Vancouver Hearings page :
The Jeff Prager Presentation : The age of the micro nuclear device.

Next is an excerpt from Jeff's own 24 pages long, exceptional well written argumentation :
Unequivocal and irrefutable physics, chemistry and mathematics proof that 911 was a nuclear event.

Page 23/23. CONCLUSION.
The graph of Thorium versus Lithium including the Girder Coatings has exactly the same form as the graph show­ing Thorium versus Uranium, also including the Girder Coatings. Without the two Girder Coatings the correlation of Thorium to Lithium in the dust is completely linear.

We therefore have compelling evidence that this fission pathway of Uranium to Thorium and Helium, with sub­sequent decay of the Helium into Lithium, has indeed taken place.

It is out of the question that all of these correlations which are the signature of a nuclear explosion could have occurred by chance. This is impossible.

The presence of rare Trace elements such as Cerium, Yttrium and Lanthanum is enough to raise eyebrows in themselves, let alone in quantities of 50ppm to well over 100ppm. When the quantities then vary widely from place to place but still correlate with each other according to the relationships expected from nuclear fission, it is beyond ALL doubt that the variations in concentration are due to that same common process of nuclear fission.

When we find Barium and Strontium present, in absolutely astronomical concentrations of over 400ppm to over 3000ppm, varying from place to place but varying in lockstep and according to known nuclear relationships – the implications are of the utmost seriousness.

The presence of Thorium and Uranium correlated to each other by a clear mathematical power relationship – and to other radionucleide daughter products – leaves nothing more to be said.

This type of data has probably never been available to the public before. It is an unprecedented insight into the action of a nuclear device. Nuclear weapon scientists around the world will have seized this data to analyze it and try and determine exactly what type of device produced it.

September 11th, 2001, was the first Nuclear event within a major United States city and a global financial center of the world and this is the biggest secret of this century, until now.

posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 12:48 PM
Note that Jeff (former web-name "anonymous physicist") explains in his Vancouver Hearings guest blog, that such a fusion/fission triggered device would produce many fission decay products with very short, (hours) to short, (days) half life cycles.
And low to very low radiation levels, caused by the special "packaging" of the device.

My only problem with his arguments is, that to my knowledge, there are no hybrid fusion triggered fission devices developed yet.
But, what do I know to date intimately from the latest research....?
I am however to this date cautious to declare 9/11 a nuclear event.

His 24 page research, part-two from three parts, however is a compelling and good read.
Tom of Bedlam, where are you? You were one of us ATS members, who showed intimate micro-nuke research knowledge too.
And also about thick steel-column-shattering micro-Barometric (a.k.a. A-neutronic) bombs.

There was information around about minuscule amounts of anti-matter used as fusion-triggers for a fission bomb, which would produce very clean (no radiation longer than a week, at very low levels) nuclear "mini"-explosions.
Nanograms, later micro-grams of antimatter are supposedly being synthesized at the super collider at CERN, Geneva, Switzerland, and they were able in later research to lock these ultra small quantities in special designed containers, electromagnetic traps.

These are 6 answers by Jim Fetzer on questions prepared by Donald Fox about the possibility of nuclear devices used on 9/11.
Jim Fetzer Real Deal Appearance 8/27/12.

posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 12:53 PM
1. The mechanism of demolition of the WTC and the likelihood of nuclear bombs being used. A myriad of further links by "anonymous physicist"
(Note that this data-server stands in the USA, not in .nl, the Netherlands.! )

2. Nuclear destruction of the WTC. To date, 10/10/12, at 502 comments.

3. Antimatter induced fusion and thermonuclear explosions. 20 Pages.

While there seems to be no theoretical obstacles to the production of 10to.the18th anti-protons per day (the amount required for triggering one thermonuclear bomb), the construction of such a plant involves several techniques which are between 3 and 4 orders of magnitude away from present day technology.
Considering the financial and energy investments needed to produce antimatter, applications will probably remain confined to the military domain.
Since antihydrogentriggered thermonuclear explosives are very compact and have extremely reduced fallout, we conclude that such devices will enhance the proliferation of nuclear weapons and further diffuse the distinction between low-yield nuclear weapons and conventional explosives.

4. Antimatter weapons (1946-1986): From Fermi and Teller’s speculations to the
first open scientific publications. 19 Pages.

5. A Guide to Nuclear Weapons

6. THE PONTIFICAL ACADEMY OF SCIENCES Yearbook 2008 Vatican City. Index of Academians, Rubbia, page 218/219.

Early in 1983 at CERN, an international team of more than 100 physicists headed by Rubbia, known as the UA1 Collaboration, detected the intermediate vector bosons, a triplet of particles, the W+, the W – and the Zzero,which had become a cornerstone of modern theories of elementary particle physics, long before they were observed by Rubbia and collaborators.

They are believed to carry the weak force that causes radioactive decay in the atomic nucleus and controls the combustion of the Sun, just as photons, massless particles of light, carry the electromagnetic force which causes most physical and biochemical reactions.
To achieve energies high enough to create the intermediate vector bosons (particles roughly one hundred times as heavy as the proton), Rubbia proposed, with David Cline and Peter McIntyre, the use of a beam of protons and a beam of anti-protons, their antimatter twins, counter-rotating and colliding head-on.
These revolutionary techniques were developed with Simon van der Meer, with whom Rubbia shared the 1984 Nobel Prize in Physics. Rubbia was one of the leaders in a collaboration effort based deep in the Gran Sasso Laboratory designed to detect any sign of decay of the proton.
The experiment seeks evidence that would disprove the conventional belief whereby matter is stable.
The experiment, known as ICARUS and based on a new technique of electronic detection of ionizing events in ultra-pure liquid Argon, is now operational at the University of Pavia, awaiting its transfer to the Gran Sasso Laboratory.
More recently he proposed the concept of an Energy Amplifier – a novel and safe way of producing nuclear energy exploiting present-day accelerator technologies, which is actively being studied worldwide in order (1) to incinerate high activity waste from accelerators and (2) to produce energy from natural thorium and depleted uranium.
The energy resources which potentially could derive from these fuels will be practically unlimited and comparable to those from Fusion.
His activities are presently concentrated on the problem of energy supply for the future.
Carlo Rubbia is the co-author of 546 scientific publications, of which 245 have been published in major scientific journals. For a complete list please email a request to

The spin-off from these kind of experiments end up directly in the Sandia Laboratories, the Lawrence Livermore Lab in California and the Los Alamos Lab in New Mexico.
Think of the early theoretical speculations on the possible explosive uses of antimatter, from 1946 to the first production of anti-protons, at Berkeley in 1955, and until the first capture of cold anti-protons, at CERN on July 17–18, 1986, as well as the circumstances of the first presentation at a scientific conference of the correct physical processes leading to the ignition of a large scale thermonuclear explosion using less than a few micro-grams of antimatter as trigger, at Madrid on June 30th – July 4th, 1986. (see Ref. 4).


posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 12:58 PM
7. Articles on Antimatter, Including - Antiparticle, Positron, Antimatter Rocket, Antihydrogen, Antiproton, Annihilation, Antineutron, Antimatter Weapon, Antiprotonic Helium, Gravitational Interaction of Antimatter, Di-Positronium, Hephaestus Books. Release date: August 2011. 64 Pages. ( Source )

8. Suitcase nuke.

9. Pentagon eyes age of 'mini-nukes'. Small weapons for small conflicts.

The proposed 10-ton TNT-alike "micro-nuke," would pack a punch 10 times the size of the largest non-nuclear bombs dropped by U.S. forces during the Persian Gulf War. It would be 1/500th the size of the B-61, currently the smallest nuclear warhead in the Pentagon inventory.

The labs also are weighing development of a "mini-nuke," with the explosive power of 100 tons of TNT, to destroy nuclear, biological and chemical warheads in flight, according to Los Alamos documents.

A third warhead -- known as the "tiny-nuke" -- would have the power of 1,000 tons of TNT and might be used against enemy ground troops. The Army, which in recent years gave up all of its battlefield nuclear weapons, had nuclear artillery shells about this size.

The Los Alamos documents declare that "any long-term nuclear stockpile should include several hundred low-yield nuclear weapons systems."

10. 50 Databases, 2100 Websites in One Place. provides access to U.S. government science information and research by bringing together on one site more than 50 databases and 2100 websites.


It's a LOT of information to absorb, take your time to read all links, then react, since probably most of your questions are covered in the myriad of 2005 and 2012 links.

I await productive remarks.

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