Islam is the Problem

wat was it u trying to tell us Fritz? i dont dont believe the Declaration of Independence, is gonna help the rest of the world.

The words from personal/group and nation are almost same:

You should follow my order( you are wrong, you should do something like... ).

Actually, now it is the cultural war (Jesus to Jihad, or Christian to Islamic ).

Christian already destroyed American Indian civilization and almost destroyed Asian India civilization.

Now Christian purpose is to destroy Islamic civilization.

Of course, Islamic will fight back.

Democracy and freedom are good for all human being.

But first we should respect people's civilization.

tt

Originally posted by fritz
I believed that the 'Declaration of Independence' stated once and for all, what the founders of 'America' thought about the country and it's people whom they loved and cherished. I quote:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness....

Problem is half or more of the people who wrote this document owned slaves. So essencialy the concept is exellent but we as a race have never exaclty been one to follow our own ideals, or rather we follow them as long as they profit us.

Islam is not the problem..

People are the problem
eliminate all the people... no more problem.

Of course, that seems to have a few negative side effects...

Islam is stereotyped as a threat to democracy without distinguishing it from terrorism or corrupt leaders who use the ideals of Islam to their own ends. Thus, US foreign policy has been criticized for not taking this distinction into account and also hypocritically supporting terrorist regimes in the past for its own political gains and only now doing something about it.

www.globalissues.org...

U.S. foreign policy toward international terrorism is far too focused on military solutions, including bombing raids by cruise missiles and fighter aircraft against targets in foreign nations. Though such air strikes have played well with the American public because they give the impression that the U.S. is taking decisive action to strike back at terrorists, in reality the U.S. war against terrorism has often taken the form of foreign policy by catharsis.

Another problem with U.S. policy is that the United States has itself sponsored international terrorism. The most serious single bombing attack against a civilian target in the modern Middle East was the March 1985 blast in a suburban Beirut neighborhood that killed 80 people and wounded 200 others. The attack was ordered by CIA director William Casey and approved by President Reagan as part of an unsuccessful effort to assassinate an anti-American Lebanese cleric. Such actions have given the U.S. crusade against terrorism less credibility in much of the world.

www.fpif.org...

Who's the Problem?

Originally posted by MrBunny

Problem is half or more of the people who wrote this document owned slaves. So essencialy the concept is exellent but we as a race have never exaclty been one to follow our own ideals, or rather we follow them as long as they profit us.

Of course, that seems to have a few negative side effects...

i believe that those same people who owned slaves help to start the catalysm to help end slavery. For example, George Washington put in his will that he wanted his slaves free. many others were started to feel that others should be free and equal. but many in southern states did not share the same views as the founding fathers.

[edit on 26-7-2005 by deltaboy]

The U.S. is a target of terrorists in large part due to our perceived arrogance, hypocrisy, and greed. Becoming a more responsible member of the international community will go a long way toward making the U.S. safer and ultimately stronger.

maybe he can explain other countries and peoples who are targeted by Islamic extremists as well, i dont think those victims were arrogant or greedy.

Originally posted by deltaboy

i believe that those same people who owned slaves help to start the catalysm to help end slavery. For example, George Washington put in his will that he wanted his slaves free. many others were started to feel that others should be free and equal. but many in southern states did not share the same views as the founding fathers.

[edit on 26-7-2005 by deltaboy]

Quite true, however is it not interesting that he did not free them while he lived?

Originally posted by UM_Gazz
I'll skip all of the talk here, and answer the title with a link to a discussion I started some time ago here at ATS when I was just a member...

www.abovetopsecret.com...


Deny Ignorance

Incredibly well put.

Why? Because he is absolutely right. Our European ancestors woke up during the middle ages Moslem Conquest of Europe almost a day late and a dollar short.

It's cute to pretend that poor European Christians were innocent victims of unprovoked Islamic agression. I guess you've never heard of the Crusades? Historically, Islam has a long way to go to catch up with the death toll attributable to Christianity (though they're doing their best to catch up now), but to be fair Islam has not been around as long.

Anyone with the absolute certainty that God is on their side is a potential mass murderer if you ask me.

Islam IS the problem. I 100% agree.

Does that mean I think the followers of Islam are all evil and bad? Of course not. Its because I think the followers of Islam have allowed the extremists among them to get out of control and bring their extremism to the world stage. Islam needs to police its own, like any other group or religion.

Islamic extremists and terrorists are Islams fault. Period.

What happens when a major league baseball pitcher pushes a few camera men? MLB takes care of it. They squash the extreme actions of thier own as it tarnishes thier organization. They dont let it get out of hand. It is THEIR problem. You didnt hear about the NFL getting involved did you? Because its not their problem. But if MLB left it up to another organization to take car of it, you think MLB's interests will be a priority? Nope.

This is exactly whats happening with Islamic extremism. Islam as a whole has done nothing to stop it. Some might even say its promoted within Islam. But the extremism is a huge problem for other non Islamic entities. So what are the non Islamic people to do? They deffend themselves and attack the problem as it suits THEIR interests, as well they should.

But now Islam is outraged over what the non Islamics have done to deffend themselves against Islams problem.

The peacefull people of Islam need to take care of thier problem: Islamic extremism. Until then they have no right to judge how the rest of us handle it....

[edit on 26-7-2005 by skippytjc]

How many of you, who want to latch onto the incredibly SIMPLE-minded solution of Islam being the problem, are gun owners?

Does this sound familiar? "Guns don't kill people. People do!" By the same concept, Islam doesn't kill people, people do! People are using Islam as a tool to terrorize and kill people and you're blaming the tool! You're blaming the weapon!

The religion is impotent until someone uses it to further their agenda or to justify their actions.

A gun is impotent until someone uses it to rob a store or to kill someone.

Just as taking away all the guns would punish law-abiding gun owners (and by the way, only outlaws would have guns), blaming Islam is punishing all the good-hearted, loving Muslims out there (and by the way, killers would still terrorize and kill). And they'd still use the weapon of religion! Only the good ones would be punished!

Your rationalization is incredibly flawed. As long as there are good, solid, loving, gentle Muslims (which you KNOW there are) blaming Islam is a mistake.

And as long as there are good, solid, law-abiding citizens who own and use guns responsibly, blaming the gun is just as stupid.

Sorry Benevolent Heretic, but your analogy makes no sense. Owning a gun doesn't increase your proclivity to want to kill others; however, being a Muslim appears to do so -- in a particularly devestating mass murdering way.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
Owning a gun doesn't increase your proclivity to want to kill others; however, being a Muslim appears to do so

Obviously this is not true. We do not see a higher propensity torwards these sorts of things when other variables are controlled for. Being from a backwards country without personal freedoms or empowerment is more of a source of terrorism than any religion in particular. Why not focus on the prime movers of terrorism, rather than a religion that doesn't really have much to do with it?

however, being a Muslim appears to do so -- in a particularly devestating mass murdering way.

Utter BS. There are what, 800 million to 1 billion Muslims?
How many are terrorists? A few thousand at most.

You're just bloodthirsty fools lining up excuses for the genocide you'd like to commit. You are the moral equivalent of the terrorists, or worse.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
...however, being a Muslim appears to do so -- in a particularly devestating mass murdering way.

And being a Catholic makes you a homosexual pediphile.

How's that for my giant ignorant generalization? Did I pass?
Do I get to join the Muslim hater's club now? Now can I say cool stuff like "down with the Muslims" and "Muslims are controlled by Satan" kind of stuff or do I have to stick with the small stuff because all the big bigot haters get to make those comments. Can I be like a junior bigot? Pleeeeease?

Oh...can I at least make a "Muslims are the Problem" thread? I am looking for a point getter thread and these seems to be the unthinking man's ticket to the money.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
Sorry Benevolent Heretic, but your analogy makes no sense. Owning a gun doesn't increase your proclivity to want to kill others; however, being a Muslim appears to do so -- in a particularly devestating mass murdering way.

"Appears to do so"? Bah! That's your opinion. I could as easily say that owning guns also increases one's desire to kill people. Look at all the people who have killed other people and have lots of guns at home. See?

www.bradycampaign.org...

On March 24, 1998, firing from woods overlooking their school, 13-year-old Andrew Golden and 11-year-old Mitchell Johnson shot and killed four middle school students and a teacher and injured ten other students in Jonesboro, Arkansas. The two boys had a semiautomatic M-1 carbine with a large ammunition magazine, two other rifles, seven handguns and more than 500 rounds of ammunition which they took from the home of one of the boy's grandfather, who had a large arsenal of weapons left unsecured.

I could (but don't want to waste my time) link plenty of stories of crazy people who have armories in their home and have killed people.

You might as well claim that boxcutters are the problem behind 9/11! We should track down everyone who owns boxcutters! They're dangerous! They make people want to kill! Run for your lives!!

You obviously want to use the argument when it suits you and toss it aside when it gets in the way of your prejudice.

Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander

And being a Catholic makes you a homosexual pediphile.

How's that for my giant ignorant generalization? Did I pass?
Do I get to join the Muslim hater's club now?

Yeah, you pass alright....you pass the test and your now a Liberal. Feel Good??

Catholics aren't commiting suicide attacks all over the world Zed, but radical Muslims are and a majority of them are ether silent or supporting them. They won't go after the bad guys in their midst and they force us Christians to do their dirty work for them.

Your crummy remark shows us all that your confused about who the bad guys are....in fact your just plain ignorant.

Maximu§

[edit on 013131p://222 by LA_Maximus]

I do find it shocking how many jump to deny the apparently obvious in the name of political correctness...

Maybe someone who remembers more college statistics than I can do a chi-square analysis of different populations to determine scientifically if there is actually a correlation between being a Muslim and a suicide bomber. I'd be interested to see the results.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
I do find it shocking how many jump to deny the apparently obvious in the name of political correctness...

Maybe someone who remembers more college statistics than I can do a chi-square analysis of different populations to determine scientifically if there is actually a correlation between being a Muslim and a suicide bomber. I'd be interested to see the results.

It is not obvious, well only to bigots maybe.

I would say the religion is irrelevant to the amount of suicide bombings, I would say that the situation does. Remember these bombings are happening in a war zone.

Example? Japan in WW2, certainly not Islamic by any means. Pleanty of men went to their deaths strpped with bombs by plane or otherwise. People will do desperate and in hindsight stupid things in war.

Islam is portrayed as a threat to the (mainly Christian) West. Some claim that it is the new threat to replace the communist fears from the Cold War. However, the stereotypical image of the Middle East is very negative.

I see Everybody Today is "Infected" with the "Islamic Demon Virus" that Spreads very Quickly.

When Infected, the Patients starts to Spit Out Extreme Intolerance to Muslims.

Islam comes from the same tradition as Judaism and Christianity. They all belive in the same one god, and Islam considers Moses and Jesus to be two of the many Phrophets. The more hardline interpretation of Islam is countered by most Muslims and the three religions share many other principles.


Also Read:

A Devil Theory of Islam

[edit on 26/7/05 by Souljah]