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Islam is the Problem

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posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 07:10 PM
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3 and a half million people are going to starve to death in the second poorest country on earth in the next 2 months. The UN has asked for 8 million britain has given 3 million the rest is still outstanding but coming in now.

From this fact that again a massive percentage of humanity face, not four bombs on a transport system they dont even have, in one part of a huge country whilst most of the time we are safe and full, not that but they face seeing their children die in their arms before they die themselves. This threat and reality for a masive percentage of humanity is and has been ongoing for centuries. Therefore I suggest using the posters premise that for again a majority of humanity Unfair Trade and Capitalism is the threat and terrosist.
It has been shown to Create fear Misery pain and death to Millions now. Terrorism!. Now we should be ok here (we being the most of the worlds population) because there is a lot less of you than muslims, and you want from the premise to persecute them, so it should be easy for us. Target the Capitalists and people living in the west weve got to give it up people. blah blah blah

The only worrying thing about my analogy to show the unworkable and ludicrous (without the sources enough in themselves) position that view holds, is that really both in international law, morally and for true human equality, my analogous transfered victims actually would have the upper hand.
However I suppose any dreamy if realistic human realises the sliding scale of outrage and emotion and fear generated by terrible things happening in the world, as percieved in the west.

Certainly 50 people dead in the UK or 1 man shot accidentaly generate more interest, laws, funding, initiative, attention and proactive measures than 3.5 million facing starvation. A plane journey away. They would have the planes if they thought terrorist al queda suspects were there!
We as a generation have only carried on our forefathers work of war, division, isolationalism in the media society, and rascism and religeous hatred.

I dont disrespect your freedom of expression. But to be honest I find both the quote and the whole stance .... uneducated, ignorant and polarised. I think it dosnt take a genius to to realise that the next step in that whole thought and feeling process is religeous persucution. Bloody hell on this whole islam/ alqueda thing please read some history. I suggest start with the Crusades, and follow it through. Its not new, infact the past couple of hundred years have been very peacefull when taken in the context of the historical reality of the war between Christianity(now the West) and Islam(now al queada). Look to at recent hsitory, who funded set up, infact the place the name and idea of al queda was born in a western government mind in London. Its long complicated intertwinned and very very messy.

The people calling for the subjegation and oppresson of the Musilms are on a very slippery slope that ultimately leads to the same place as the suicide bombers, fanatisism and blind faith. The suicide bombers are pawns in a game and the way we have and carry on reacting to the fear that this generates is our part in the game. The ultimate question is who is playing the game? well I think people should focus ther attention on these factors, rather than falling for the red herring.

no offence intended, strong words for a strongly emotive topic.

MischeviouslyDefendingReality

Elf.




posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 11:02 PM
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Well, let's talk about this a bit. We and Muslims follow our religions don't we?

Killing people I feel is not part of this equation. Seems to me kick the over-religious killers out and then the only thing left are the imported variety.
Canada, Britain and United States of America have to wake up to creed and religious belief 'cause there is no other choice?

Canada has a bigger way to go. It seems that only staying tight to a 'UN Resolution' saved Cda thus far from terrorist nosense - for now..

Dallas



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 11:32 PM
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Okay, since this discussion seems to be stalling with the "'all Muslims this" and "all Muslims that", how about focusing on just those who 'condone' such acts?

So, my question has to do with those Muslims and Imams who reside in Britain and actively speak out against British government and condone the recent London bombings? Should they be allowed to hold such 'free speech' exhibits of hate towards the very country in which they legally reside?

www.foxnews.com...



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 11:39 PM
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Islam is not the problem, in all due honesty.
Islam may not condemn such acts of terrorism as much as some may wish it to, but be assured, Islam does not condone and strictly forbids such acts, as terrorism or the use of suicide bombings, etc.

The problem, as mentioned by MaskedAvatar and a few others, is the fundamentalist/fundamentalism phenomenon, and this phenomenon is not restricted to simply Islam.

As with the Abu Gharib/Abu Ghraib incidents, etc., the actions of a few do not represent the majority/totality. To imply such is stereotypical and needs to be avoided and reconsidered.






seekerof

[edit on 25-7-2005 by Seekerof]



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 11:44 PM
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Seekerof: I must disagree with you here. Islamic beliefs have enhanced the terror.

Dallas



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 11:49 PM
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"Islamic beliefs" enhance the terror to the same extent that all Christians are pro-life and all Christians conduct attacks on abortion clinics.

Ignorance abounds.



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 11:50 PM
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Dallas, you must be referring to Wahhabism?
Wahhabism does not represent the majority of Islam.




seekerof

[edit on 25-7-2005 by Seekerof]



posted on Jul, 26 2005 @ 12:34 AM
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We've got the Muslims with over a Billion adherents and the Christians. You know what I see ? History repeating itself.

I see the people who own and rule this planet, call'em what you wish Secret Society, Illuminati RCC, take the 2 biggest religions in this planet use terror to instigate hate on eachother, start a big War, call it "Holy", make a bloody mess, collect the spoil and have a big party. Don't be fooled.

This planet has got its problems. But if you're going to label and generalize the "problem makers" don't ever go into religion, race or color. You can however, start by...

The Greedy
The Heartless

and

The IGNORANT



posted on Jul, 26 2005 @ 12:50 AM
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Well if the Qu'ran was less violent, then maybe these fundamentalists wouldn't be able to quote and twist the meaning of passages.
Islam's goal is to convert the entire world to Islam, through force if necessary, no muslim denies this.

The fact that the Qu'ran refers to non believers as kaffirs and inferior is very bigoted. No wonder there is so much muslim hate towards the west and the freedoms we have. Look what they're taught.



posted on Jul, 26 2005 @ 01:00 AM
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Looked up the link. No further comment, I stand behind what I already wrote.
Respecfully
Dallas



posted on Jul, 26 2005 @ 01:25 AM
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Originally posted by rogue1
Well if the Qu'ran was less violent, then maybe these fundamentalists wouldn't be able to quote and twist the meaning of passages.


The fact the "it gets twisted", like you say, has nothing to do with the passage in itself, but more to do with human nature. These fundamental leaders are puppets, they twist the scriptures because of the favorable outcome it will bring for the people they work for. Thats they're job thats what they do.


Originally posted by rogue1
Islam's goal is to convert the entire world to Islam, through force if necessary, no muslim denies this.


Christianity also has that in mind. And if you look at the history of the RCC I don't think they way they converted much of they're adherents was biblically correct.


Originally posted by rogue1
The fact that the Qu'ran refers to non believers as kaffirs and inferior is very bigoted. No wonder there is so much muslim hate towards the west and the freedoms we have. Look what they're taught.


What does the Bible call/say about non-believers ?

Don't get me wrong. I'm a christian. My point is simply

He that is without sin let him cast the first stone



posted on Jul, 26 2005 @ 01:59 AM
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I am an atheist. All religion to me is pointless.

However Islam is still stuck in the dark ages, it hasn't progressed one iota. Christianity on the other hand has. Simple as that.



posted on Jul, 26 2005 @ 02:49 AM
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NO! DEFINATELY NOT!

Islam and Muslims - per se, are not the problems. Muslims all over the world, are reacting to what they percieve [rightly or wrongly] of a
co-ordinated attack on their way of life and their religion, by a cowardly and corrupt government, hell bent on total world domination. [That they support governments like the corrupt Saud family, support Israel (without hinderence) and other anti-muslim governments, only adds to the general paranoia that feeds the hate]

There will always be zealots in any religion and those biggoted fools who hide behind masks - Oooooooooooh just had a thought - the Klu Klux Klan, white supremacists who raped black women, murdered hundreds of black people & firebombed churches - kinda makes you want to laugh to see tables being turned, if it were not so tragic.

Many, many zealots use mass hysteria to whipp up frenzied support for any cause they overtly support. They even use the internet to spread their vile message and most of the terrorist websites are in the USA [according to a BBC2 programme last night! This was disclosed after a 3 year in depth investigation]

Only way to stop this madness, is for people to wake up and kick out these warmongers in all governments throughout the world, listen to the people and ask what they want. Then all you have to do, is somehow give it to them.

Remember people: YOUR GOVERNMENT WORKS FOR YOU - YOU DO NOT WORK FOR YOUR GOVERNMENT!



posted on Jul, 26 2005 @ 03:09 AM
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Originally posted by rogue1
However Islam is still stuck in the dark ages, it hasn't progressed one iota. Christianity on the other hand has. Simple as that.


True, but the thread says

Islam is the Problem

Yes, Islam does have problems (like the one you stated above)

I think what I should be asking is,

What problem are we talking about ?

If we're talking about "terror" then I really think we should look beyond customs, race or religion.



posted on Jul, 26 2005 @ 03:10 AM
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Originally posted by fritz
NO! DEFINATELY NOT!

Islam and Muslims - per se, are not the problems. Muslims all over the world, are reacting to what they percieve [rightly or wrongly] of a
co-ordinated attack on their way of life and their religion, by a cowardly and corrupt government, hell bent on total world domination. [That they support governments like the corrupt Saud family, support Israel (without hinderence) and other anti-muslim governments, only adds to the general paranoia that feeds the hate]


Please, this has been going on far longer than the last couple of years as you imply. Read a few history books.
So I guess the cowardly and corrupt muslim governments are ok by you ? Lucky hypocrites like you will never have any bearing on events.


PS. take a reality pill



posted on Jul, 26 2005 @ 03:10 AM
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Originally posted by fritz
Muslims all over the world, are reacting to what they percieve [rightly or wrongly] of a
co-ordinated attack on their way of life and their religion,


And I suppose 9/11 and all the other bombings are not a coordinated attack on our way of life? Dont throw stones if you live in a glass house.


There will always be zealots in any religion and those biggoted fools who hide behind masks - Oooooooooooh just had a thought - the Klu Klux Klan, white supremacists who raped black women, murdered hundreds of black people & firebombed churches - kinda makes you want to laugh to see tables being turned, if it were not so tragic.


Your talking about something that happened in the USA, not on an international level, there is a difference. Many of the lynchings and bombings were isolated incidents in the deep south and did not constitute a threat to national security. That doesnt make it right though, muslims were never the targets of those attacks, AMERICAN BLACKS WERE!


Many, many zealots use mass hysteria to whipp up frenzied support for any cause they overtly support. They even use the internet to spread their vile message and most of the terrorist websites are in the USA [according to a BBC2 programme last night! This was disclosed after a 3 year in depth investigation


Ok, number one look at the source of this info, bbc2, are well known for anti-american sentiment or more specifically, anti-bush. 2. your telling me that the arabic websites are in the US? This is possible but i tend to doubt it.


Only way to stop this madness, is for people to wake up and kick out these warmongers in all governments throughout the world, listen to the people and ask what they want. Then all you have to do, is somehow give it to them.


ah, liberals, idealists to the point of living in fantasy land.



posted on Jul, 26 2005 @ 03:14 AM
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Islam isnt the problem... Its bigotry and Ignorance... from both the Islamic, and Christian Fundamentalists...

The problem is, neither of them can be bothered taking the time to learn about the other properly, and thus assume too much about each other...



posted on Jul, 26 2005 @ 03:29 AM
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Islam is the problem, and so are their allies in america,britain,etc. that make excuses for their radical rhetoric. Muslimsthink that all non-believers should be killed, they want a holy war [which they have gotten now]. The sad thing is that this type of thinking is MODERATE in their religous groups.

"But what about christians? arent they terrorists" well, i have heard abortion clinic bombings, and the KKK as a justification for saying Christianity is a terrorist religion. Thats not true at all, in fact jesus rejected all violence, unlike mohammed, and its a miniority that warp the ideas to include violence. It is NOT a miniority of muslims that are sympathetic to terrorists, in fact most are at the LEAST sympathetic and the more extreme ones become suicide bombers, etc. Also christians do not believe its an automatic free ride to heaven for them and their families if they kill themselves and as many others as possible.

The humanist view of all religion is the problem is also a foolish concept. People have had religion since the dawn of time, and isnt it a prime factor in culture? People are not going to up and abandon religion, without major changes in the world that no group of people on this planet can bring about. I also believe the liberal humanist view of, im a human being and i know best and their couldnt possibly be a surperior being that nows better than me IMO is foolish and arrogant.



posted on Jul, 26 2005 @ 03:33 AM
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I just love some peoples idea of self grandiosity....uber mensh syndrome all over again

You need to understand the problem, before you can solve it. Demonizing a whole religion is not helping at all, got it?



posted on Jul, 26 2005 @ 03:37 AM
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I understand you do not wish to generalise, and youd like to sit everyone of those people down and ask "what are your problems in life, and what can i do to help solve them!" that is not realistic. There are poor and suffering people all over the world but they dont up and decide to start murdering people. Got it?


[edit on 26-7-2005 by XphilesPhan]




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