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alien abduction cult?

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posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 04:54 PM
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here's the skeptic's point of view on alien abductions, has some good points in it

www.skepdic.com...

any comments?




posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 08:14 PM
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sounds pretty real to me, however, the sheer amount of proof that is pro-alien and the amount of questions the govrenment has left unanwserd seems to point out to me that aliens have in fact visted this planet. I however, disagree with claimes that there are 1000's of massive underground bases in which aliens prform expriments



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 09:33 PM
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The article does have some good points but like all attempts at Debunking it is somewhat selective in it's choice of topics. I have come to believe because of the vast number of people who feel they are suffering from Abduction that many of them must have other causes.

But I do think that just as with UFO sightings there is a core of reality here. I am actually comming around to EarthSister's point of view on this topic. There have been Abductions but they are far fewer than what many people seem to think. Most, and by that I mean the vast majority, have other causes.

This Thread is rather well timed for me as I just finished reading 'The Abduction Enigma' by Randle, Estes and Cone.

Little Disclaimer here:

I do not like Kevin Randle, I do not like his tactics, I do not like how he seems to be making a career out of attacking other people. This book offends me in any number of ways. If you are correct about something there is no need to tear down others to make your points.

But...

I have to grant that it makes a compelling point but I think it does try to settle the matter completely which I think is wrong and close-minded in that effort. In the same fashion that just because a large number of UFO pictures are fake does not mean that they all are fake.

The book draws close comparisions between Abduction victims and those who believe in Ritual Satanic Abuse. Let me just say here that I have been studying all things occult for my entire adult life. All during that time I have tried to actually meet a real Satanist, to no avail. I have made this desire known to everyone in these Communities I have met and still no luck.

Oh sure I have met plenty of kids who play at it, and I even once met a guy who participated in some stuff with Anton Levay. Neither group is serious and in the case of Levay it is just a way to get sex.

Before someone jumps on me, I have no interest in Satanism because to me it is just the other side of Christanity. My only interest is in trying to understand why anyone would follow a religion that is based on evil.

Are there Satanists, of course, are there a lot of them, nope.


Back to the article in the first post in this Thread:

I think the author does have a valid point to make, it is unfortunate that he/she feels the need to clutter things with some foolish concepts. The whole 'the distance is so great' argument is totally without merit and should have been left out.

Like 'The Abduction Enigma' they point out the historical myths that seem to mirror Abductions without even considering that maybe the sources of those myths might be reality rather than fantasy. An honest look at the subject would at least acknowledge the possibility.

I do believe that there have been real abductions but like all things connected to the subject of UFOs most have very human causes.


A.T
(-)



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 10:01 PM
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Alex, I usually agree with you on almost everything you post, but not on this one, Sure some people have issues and blame it on abductions. I feel that their are many more real abductions than we will ever know. I know if I had been abducted and I told anybody your'e going to get the "wingnut" label right away; so I wouldn't tell a soul. Most people can't afford to get a reputation for being a 'loonie' because of their jobs or social standing. Thus lots of people being abducted and never telling anyone. Being an abductee must be a very lonely kind of life. Also I feel many people are abductees and suspect they are but repress their feelings and deny it to themselves just to stay emotionally comfortable. Same as the sexually abused. You are right about the satanists however. Peace!



posted on Jul, 26 2005 @ 03:54 AM
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I am a contactee/abductee. No one can debunk my life! I was set up. (So were my parents and grandparents.) I had UFO-related name at birth, significant PLACE of birth, and unusual CIRCUMSTANCES AT BIRTH. The ETs, in cooperation with the government, did genetic work on me to change my race BACK AND FORTH from "Black" to "White".
I even have bodyguards and handlers. That PROVES that I have ET connections. Otherwise, they would not waste time and MONEY in advising/guarding me.
My website: "MINDBOGGLER"
members.tripod.com...



posted on Jul, 26 2005 @ 10:02 AM
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This is interesting. I agree that not all people that say that they were abducted were abducted. I myself have been having strange 'experiences' the last month or so.
I keep getting a terrible ringing in my right ear and get eye aches only behind my right eye. i also have 3 strange marks on the palm of my hand and I woke up suddenly a few night ago and could not move and I heard something saying my name in my head.
My friends think that I was abducted.
Personally I think I'm just going bonkers. It's all scycocimatic to me. I've just been reading to many ufo books and such. What do you guys think?



posted on Jul, 26 2005 @ 11:56 AM
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The whole 'the distance is so great' argument is totally without merit and should have been left out.


I have to disagree. That is an extremly valid piont. No one as of yet has proven that we can travel at the speed of light let alone faster than that. And the jury is still out on whether or not wormholes are a realistic possiabilty. So how can we be so sure people are being abducted and yet we still can ONLY guess as to there method of transportation.

But yet people still believe these aliens traverse thousands, excuse me, BILLIONS, of miles of open space to pick and prod on humans and cows.

This must mean that they are bored with studying particle theories, Quarks, physics, and other mind blowing science that they would need to have an understanding of in order to magically galavent across the universe.

How they get here is unimportant because we know that they are here.....right?

I thought the article did a good job of explaining how diffucult there journey across the universe would be first and foremost.

Secondly, I think its a fallicy to believe something just because many people say so. Specially since so many people say so and no substantial evidence has ever been produced. Thats less believeable than only one person in the whole world claiming to have been abducted, but was able to smuggle an alien stethascope.

Come on people. Using the same logic we use for aliens, and i've said this before, we have just as much info on unicorns, dragons, and bigfoot. And, Those creatures dont have near the same transportation obsticles aliens face.

Abductions.........blahhhh!



posted on Jul, 26 2005 @ 12:12 PM
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i think the only reason u cant fathom something traveling billions of miles distance is because you ; like the rest of us; are primitive humans

in 50million years; dont you think humans could figure something out ?

anyways; i disagree with the article on several points

they said we are all a "big cult"

this is BS!

i never seen evidence of abductions; i dont believe aliens made cropcircles
i dont even know what the urantia book crap is

just becuase i am aware the chances of roswell being alien is about 95% ; doesnt mean im part of some crazy cult this is BS

its prejudice and it totally ruins any credibility the article could have

lumping all of us togeather in a cult

according to the article 30% of USA population believes in aliens to some degree

that means our "Cult" is 100million people strong
not to mention the people in other nations....

well i guess thats inaccurate for "cult"
we should be called a "established religion" if you gonna play that angle

lol but anyways
just becuase i believe in a few things and i saw with my own eyes a metal saucer disk DOES NOT MEAN i am in a cult!!!

its not a cult its just an area of interest
Big Differance!



posted on Jul, 26 2005 @ 03:33 PM
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Interesting viewpoints. I would have to agree with Alexander Tau on most of what he said. I do think that there is at least a shred of credibility in the UFO/extraterrestrial phenomenon, considering it's existance in the first place, but I believe that a lot of people just make up stuff for attention or they don't have any other explanation so they just use aliens. People don't like leaving blank spaces blank. Also, I do think calling it a cult is going a little too far, it's just the many people who falsely believe they were abducted and stuff that would be categorized there. So muzzleflash, I don't think you're in a cult either



posted on Jul, 26 2005 @ 05:55 PM
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Whaaa wrote:



Sure some people have issues and blame it on abductions. I feel that their are many more real abductions than we will ever know.


So do I, just not millions of them. According to the Roper poll some 3 million Americans believe they may have been abducted, out of a population of 250 million. If you extend that number to the Planet you get something on the order of 50+ million. I have a problem with that.

For one thing the process of Abduction leads to massive disruptions of people's ability to function normally. Of those who have had professional help the amount of sexual disfunction is staggering. Taken to the level suggested by the Poll, and extending that over the time that humans have existed, you end up with a total destruction of Society as we know it.

Since we are still here, that suggests to me that the level of Abductions is much less than people think.

I think it might be helpful to say that I believe that few people intentionally make-up these stories. Most start out with some sort of problem and end up at Abduction, and that is where the problem lies. Recovered memories are the most tricky and complex beasts around, it is nearly impossible to conduct these sorts of sessions without leading the subject in one form or another. One wrong question and you head down the wrong path.

We have tons of proof to show this is true, whole cases of child abuse that turned out to be nothing but mistakes on the investigator's part. And many times this is done through normal questioning with no Regression at all!

And as hard as it may be for a well-adjusted person to accept, the need for attention is just huge. I have listened to people sitting in jail who say that they are happier now than at any time in their life. Why? Because people have been paying attention to them. We crave positive attention, but when that is not to be found we take negative. The worst thing for any human being is to feel that they do not matter to anyone.

People have ruined their lives for it, and they will continue to do so.


Imzadi,

You look like a nice Lady, but I do not understand how your story could be even slightly true. Not that it could not happen, but if you are correct in what you say then you would NEVER be allowed to speak in public like this.

I will make this offer, if you really can document and prove any significant part of what you say then contact me in private. With what you have I could change the World.

Crossbone wrote:



I have to disagree. That is an extremly valid piont. No one as of yet has proven that we can travel at the speed of light let alone faster than that. And the jury is still out on whether or not wormholes are a realistic possiabilty. So how can we be so sure people are being abducted and yet we still can ONLY guess as to there method of transportation.


I guess my perspective is just different than yours. What I see is a steady march through Time that leads us to travel faster and faster. Not that long ago it took weeks to cross the Oceans, now we do it in a day. Once we were confined to this Planet, today, this very day, some of us went up into Space (To Discovery: Fly baby, Fly!).

We will continue, and it only makes sense that other Races have followed the same sort of progression. It is completely within the bounds of possibility that another Race could have a million years of development on us. And it does not take a million years to do the job, in maybe as little as 100 years we will find ways to travel interstellar space.

I would strongly suggest that anyone who is hung up on the Speed of Light go back and read stories about the Sound Barrier. I do not mean books written about the subject today, I mean read the accounts from the times. Many of the most learned said it could NEVER be broken, it was a physical limit that would defeat any attempt to cross. They were just as sure as you are today, and just as wrong.

How we will eventually break the Speed of Light? I do not know, although I suspect it will involve changing the rules a bit. Perhaps for normal matter there is a limitation, but we might find a way to alter a ship and it's contents enough to allow greater speeds. Or maybe it is just a matter of enough push and does not require anything further.


A.T
(-)

[edit on 7/26/05 by Alexander Tau]



posted on Jul, 27 2005 @ 10:27 AM
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I guess my perspective is just different than yours. What I see is a steady march through Time that leads us to travel faster and faster. Not that long ago it took weeks to cross the Oceans, now we do it in a day. Once we were confined to this Planet, today, this very day, some of us went up into Space (To Discovery: Fly baby, Fly!).


So buy the same logic you use, once we are able to go to distant galaxies and travel to new worlds we will conduct experiments on other intellignet beings, while making treaties with their governments, meanwhile evading their general public ? Not to mention what we'do to their livestock. And how many tests will we need to conduct? 1, 2, 100's, 1000's. Would we as a public tolerate that, yet we expect that they do.

And you cant say the may be different from us because they can. Yet you exepct that they evolve and advance just like us.

From what we UNDERSTAND NOW, we cant travel that fast. Why do you assume that somethig out there can.

And thats what your doing.....is ASSUMING! u now what they say about that!



posted on Jul, 27 2005 @ 10:42 AM
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Harvard studied the phenomena. They feel abductees are basically prone to a rich fantasy life

"The typical abductee, notes McNally, "has a longstanding interest in 'New Age' practices and beliefs such as reincarnation, astral projection, mental telepathy, alternative healing practices, energy therapies, and astrology."

www.news.harvard.edu...

Imzadi, I looked at your website, you fit Harvards profile to the "T"



posted on Jul, 27 2005 @ 11:43 AM
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That article is all very well, but remember it is only looking at it from a pyschological standpoint. It completely ignores the other parts of the puzzle. Still interesting though.



posted on Jul, 27 2005 @ 02:27 PM
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This is completely off topic but. . . .I can see Alexanders Tummy!
lol
If I were an alien exploring Earth I would have my base on the dark side of the moon. It would probably be best to ignore me. Lol



posted on Jul, 27 2005 @ 02:46 PM
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Originally posted by CrossBone
From what we UNDERSTAND NOW, we cant travel that fast. Why do you assume that somethig out there can.
And thats what your doing.....is ASSUMING! u now what they say about that!


what are you doing crossbone?

exactly your assuming also

how ironic eh?

that was easy
lol



posted on Jul, 27 2005 @ 03:22 PM
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Originally posted by Imzadi
I am a contactee/abductee. No one can debunk my life! I was set up. (So were my parents and grandparents.)


Imzadi...

I thought you were a Grey?


" have an alien soul. My body is human. I am a walk-in. I used to be a Grey, until I died and took this body. The original soul WANTED to leave. It was done by agreement. "

(from one of your earlier posts)

I'm completely confused as to your lifestory now.

Help?



posted on Jul, 27 2005 @ 07:39 PM
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Crossbones,

I am not assuming anything, I am speculating, there is a difference.




So buy the same logic you use, once we are able to go to distant galaxies and travel to new worlds we will conduct experiments on other intellignet beings, while making treaties with their governments, meanwhile evading their general public ?


Perhaps, but just because we share somethings in common is no reason to assume we will follow exact paths. I hope that we will not see other intelligent beings as subjects for experimentation. But I am certain that we will study some in secret. It is simple respect to allow other Races to develop into whatever they wish without us, or anyone messing about. Right now we do not have this wisdom but perhaps we will gain it by the time the ability to travel is realized.




And you cant say the may be different from us because they can. Yet you exepct that they evolve and advance just like us.


I did not say that, I said if they are intelligent then they would advance over time. Not like us in exact specifics, just in a general nature.

Please remember that I see the Universe as filled with life (see my sig) so I am open to a variety of possible ways that intelligence can develop. I can easily see us visiting a Race that while it has existed for millions of years and is intelligent, but has not advanced much at all. There are things in our make-up that drive us to learn and perhaps there are Races that do not share that.

But... These sorts of Races would not build SpaceCraft either. So since we are being visited by beings who do have such craft I think the logical answer is that they advance in knowledge and ability in a way, SIMILAR, but different than we do.

I realize, and say this often enough to annoy some people, that human logic is a tool that is poorly suited to understanding beings that we share little in common with. But since it is all we have the choice is either to give up, sit back like so many and wait for someone else to find the answers, or speculate and then attempt to verify the ideas we come up with.

But to do that one must free themselves from finite thinking. What we know today is of importance certainly, but what we will know tomorrow is even more so.




From what we UNDERSTAND NOW, we cant travel that fast. Why do you assume that somethig out there can.


I have explained that, but I will repeat: 100+ Billion Galaxies, Millions of Years. Put those two together and you have the distinct possibility, I would say certainty, that some Races are more advanced, and others are less.

What I also know is the History of our Knowledge. I agree totally that by what we know today there is no way to travel faster than the speed of light. What you seem to ignore is that this is only today, what about tomorrow, what about 100 years from now, what about 1,000? Do you honestly think you can even begin to estimate what we will know then? I do not think anyone can but if history teaches us anything it is that we will go faster, father, and do so in ways that we cannot as of today even comprehend.

I do not wish to insult you, your right to your opinion is something I would die to defend no matter how much I disagree. But your thinking simply makes no sense to me whatsoever.


Oh, and LovestheGreys, ROFL!


A.T
(-)



posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 08:24 AM
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Don't you think that it's a little sadistic that we farm animals for eating? What if Aliens did it to us? So many movies you see where the humans revolt against the aliens. You dont see cows revolting against us do you? Are people from Greenland called Greenish? Are lepricauns aliens?

Alex do you still have long hair? You're pretty are you single?



posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 03:20 PM
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I think he's very broad in some of his statements, but on the whole I'm inclined to agree, if only because of mathematical sense. Simply put, it just doesn't work.



posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 09:39 PM
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Amorymeltzer,

"he" would that be me, Crossbones, or the author of the article.



LovestheGreys,

I still look exactly like that picture, the hair is very much me and will never change.

I got married for the first, and last, time on May 22. However my new wife and I are in the market for a new girlfriend if that is of any interest to you. If you would like to discuss this any further lets do that in private.


A.T
(-)



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