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Pentagon Rejects Order to Release Abu Ghraib Abuse Images

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posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 04:43 PM
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Jul 25 - Facing a court-imposed deadline to release photographs and video documenting numerous instances of torture and abuse at the now infamous US-run Abu Ghraib detention facility in Iraq, lawyers for the Department of Defense Thursday sent the court a letter stating their intention to file papers explaining why it will not adhere to the judge’s orders, civil liberties groups announced Friday.



The legal brief explaining the reasoning behind the decision will be sealed, meaning most of the information will not be made public, the letter said.

So WHY is that?

Maybe because there are Some Images that the Public Would not Want to See?

Like some Videotapes that were "Sealed" after the 9-11 Pentagon Strike?



People who have seen the videos, including members of Congress and reporter Seymour Hersh, have reported they include scenes involving far worse abuses than have so far reached the public, including rape and lewd acts committed against and in front of prisoners.

Far Worse Abuses Scenes that have been Seen Before?

Could it be Pictures of Rape?

Or Possibly Imags of Execution?



The Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR) on Friday expressed concern that the government is attempting to cover up the abuse that occurred at Abu Ghraib.

So far, the government has released over 60,000 pages of documents related to the prison. All have been posted to the internet by the ACLU.

I am Concerned too - Why are they Hiding Something Again?

Because it Might Cause a Very Different Public Effect then Needed and Wantedin this Time of War?

Last Thing US Goverment needs is ANOTHER Scandal when Talking about War in Iraq and its Consequences.



The Physicians for Human Rights, Veterans for Common Sense and Veterans for Peace are all party to the suit, in addition to the ACLU and CCR.

Go Get' Em!

Source:

NewStandard News

ACLU - Defense Department Refuses to Turn Over Abuse Photographs; Asks to File Secret Brief Justifying Refusal




posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 09:20 PM
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Sue for what, under what? The freedom of information act? All that takes is a “its national security risk” reply, which is true we don't need photos to entice more attacks. So your “go get em” is bark and no bite, I don't blame them for not releasing the photos as no good will come f they do.



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 09:49 PM
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It would be unwise for the US to release any more horrible images from Abu Ghraib. It would jeopardize the security of even more of our troops, instill more hatred into the terrorists and cause many more to question our actions in Iraq. So unless someone leaks it, I don't think we should be seeing those videos anytime soon. It's a matter of national security.


(i hate when I forget to complete a thought:duh


[edit on 7-25-2005 by worldwatcher]



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 09:54 PM
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i agree..releasing these photos isnt going to do any good necessarily. in fact the cons seem to out weigh the pros in this case. Its just going to give one political side fuel for bashing the otherside which as we have seen is really conterproductive for our country because nothing ever changes when they b**** anyways and each party has an equal amount of dirt that they can throw at each other, and secondly People that hate us are going to use that as a means to further their cause in attacking and terrorising us and further manipulate people into thinking that all americans are out to get them.


Kind Regards,
DigitalGrl



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 09:56 PM
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Originally posted by worldwatcher
It would be unwise for the US to release any more horrible images from Abu Ghraib. It would jeopardize the security of even more of our troops, instill more hatred into the terrorists and cause many more to question our actions in Iraq.

In the interests of justice and faith in government they must come clean.


So unless someone leaks it

Hmm, does rove have a good photocopier?



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 09:59 PM
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I agree they should come clean, but the timing right now isn't right for full disclosure, not with the current escalation of terrorist activity, it would only add fuel to the fire. Perhaps in 20-30 years when this war on terror is over, we can go back to it.



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 10:07 PM
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as long as they can prove to me in 20-30 years that the people responsible were punished right now I would be ok with that. the problem is they have run that excuse into the ground and every time it seems things are just swept under the rug. a war crime is a war crime, even if it is in the best interest of the U.S.



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 10:08 PM
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The concern here is not just about the abhorrent violence of some events,
it is the "lewd" group sex performed in front of prisoners that gives an indication of the depravity that existed. Not a good look for a conservative "Christian" leaning administration in charge of the invasion and occupation of Iraq.

It opens up the debate again (well, it's not really a debate, it's a given)about how much of the unbecoming conduct was under order of levels far higher up than the underlings and officers and General who have been courtmartialled or dismissed so far.

Recall that the incumbent Attorney General in a previous pastime and in his consummate kindness and regard for humanity (and the objectives of the Bush administration and the Pentagon), drafted all kinds of notions about how torture and many depraved acts to break captives would be a legitimate vehicle for the so-called "war on terror" and how the captives would not be entitled to feel protected by the Geneva Convention or anything else that was tainted with human decency.



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 10:10 PM
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The problem with not releasing the videos or photos is that some still believe the worst thing that happened was panties on the head. People are too lazy to read and find out the facts, they need pictures and videos. Until the truth is force-fed to them into something simple, something visceral, people are still are going to wallow in ignorance. Unfortunately, that ignorance is going to dictate public opinion. We can never fix a problem, if people don't know it exists.



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 10:14 PM
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Originally posted by worldwatcher
Perhaps in 20-30 years when this war on terror is over, we can go back to it.

Are you beign sarcastic? Did someone else get a hold of your account??

There's already an insurgency in iraq right now, better to reveal it now than later when it can spark another insurgency. Also, the very fact that there'd be a long coverup merely for propaganda purposes would only make it far worse. Better to reveal it now, let there be public outcry, and show the world that the US can and will investigate and punish those invovled and responsible, rather than focus on a cover-up.


masked avatar
and how the captives would not be entitled to feel protected by the Geneva Convention

The conventions apply to soldiers in an established army with uniforms and the like, not unorganized criminal gangs that specifically target civilians and execute people in mock trials. Common Sense dictatest that you don't brutalize and rape any prisoners tho, regardless of any agreements in geneva.



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 10:20 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan

The conventions apply to soldiers in an established army with uniforms and the like, not unorganized criminal gangs that specifically target civilians and execute people in mock trials. Common Sense dictatest that you don't brutalize and rape any prisoners tho, regardless of any agreements in geneva.



The Geneva Convention and its provisions for POWs are only part of the story. What is it that you know specifically about the innocence or guilt of prisoners at Abu Ghraib?

What is at issue in the Gonzales memos is the recommendation and endorsement of the type of conduct that has surfaced from Abu Ghraib and the advice to the criminal gang in the Whitehouse that they are beyond reproach in allowing this conduct to pass.



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 10:22 PM
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i was being sarcastic, glad someone noticed.

I see no forseeable end to the war on terror, not even 20-30 years. I honestly don't know where I really stand on this, I would like the pictures disclosed, but logically I know it is not in our best interest to do it now.



[edit on 7-25-2005 by worldwatcher]



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 10:27 PM
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Originally posted by worldwatcher

I honestly don't know where I really stand on this, I would like the pictures disclosed



... and the videos too?




posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 10:38 PM
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Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
What is it that you know specifically about the innocence or guilt of prisoners at Abu Ghraib?

Irrelvant. The US is the occupying power. Infact, that phase is over and the free iraqi government is in charge. Its their country, its their laws, they can deal with the criminals in whatever way they see fit. The fact that there haven't been concetration camps and gassing of entire villages at the Iraqi Councils order is a good sign.


What is at issue in the Gonzales memos is the recommendation and endorsement of the type of conduct that has surfaced from Abu Ghraib

The stuff that is at teh centre of the garaib controversy was not endorsed, however. What was endorsed was legal, that was the point of the memo and analysis, to find out what were teh legal limits. The legal limits of interrogation of murderous criminal gangs in wartime on foreign soil are pretty rough, which shouldn't be a surprise.


WorldWatcher
I see no forseeable end to the war on terror, not even 20-30 years.

10 years. The US populace can't support indefinite war. Its already grown bored with this one. The iraqi central government, however, will be fighting in iraq for a while, and the insurgency will probably become something like organized crime. But its doubtful that it will become like Kashmir or Ceylon or Palestine, wherin different nationalities and ethnicities are clashing. Once the US leaves, it will become an iraqi crime issue.



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 10:44 PM
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There's no reason to release these photos except to gratify the perverse interest of those who post threads like this.



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 10:45 PM
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this is really tough for me. While one part of me, think it would be good to have all this nastiness exposed and bring down those responsible, another part of me, knows that the way things work in this country, there will be no satisfactory outcome and the big heads in charge will get off scot free and release will only cause more terror.

so i don't know, it's just a shame that more people aren't aware of the atrocities committed without having to see videos to prove it.

10 years Nygdan? I hope so, glad to see there optimism in the world, but i don't think we will ever be out of Iraq.



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 10:50 PM
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Originally posted by worldwatcher
i was being sarcastic, glad someone noticed.

I see no forseeable end to the war on terror, not even 20-30 years. I honestly don't know where I really stand on this, I would like the pictures disclosed, but logically I know it is not in our best interest to do it now.


are you logically being sarcastic, again? secrecy hurts everyone. war on terror is a prefabricated lie.



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 10:57 PM
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is it worth the more lives that will be lost when the terrorists retaliate against innocent civilians? is it worth escalating the danger that our troops face in Iraq?

i hope you all know by now that I am against the war on terror, but I also hope you know, that now that we are in it, certain situations have to be looked at a carefully. This is a really tough issue. the truth might cause some people to lose their jobs, but will it get us out of Iraq? i don't think it will, so why not just delay the truth a bit, or be less graphic about it. I mean, why not describe the video, provide a transcript, while that will certainly get attention, it will not invoke as much anger against us as vivid imagery would.



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 11:00 PM
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Originally posted by billybob
war on terror is a prefabricated lie.


Are you being illogical or sarcastic? Is the war a "prefabricated lie" or is terror a "prefabricated lie?" It seems to me that both are deathly real and from where I stand, it's going to be a very long war, so those who are on the side of freedom better get united and get a handle on the situation or things are going to get a lot worse.



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 11:11 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
What is it that you know specifically about the innocence or guilt of prisoners at Abu Ghraib?

Irrelvant. The US is the occupying power. Infact, that phase is over and the free iraqi government is in charge. Its their country, its their laws, they can deal with the criminals in whatever way they see fit.



Excuse me, but the abuses were carried out by US personnel on orders from yet to be identified commanders and not by the "free Iraqi government" that you believe exists now.

It is therefore your position that is not only irrelevant, but in fact confused.

The Bush administration and its advisors will not be absolved from the abuse scandal that occured fully under its watch, except by further criminal undertaking.

I would be pleased to read an analysis of where in policy directives the practices at Abu Ghraib that were "not endorsed" have been segregated from those practices that were "endorsed".



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