..distract us from what really needs to be done here,we have plenty of tired,poor,huddled masses yearning to breath free right here already.
Not to say that things need to stay closed,but until everything get back on track,why not fix the probs here?.

edit - bad post

[Edited on 24-8-2003 by ktprktpr]

If you believe in America for the Americans then I believe in Africa for the Africans.

We should rid Africa of all the pestilence, white people, and let Africa shine with black Africans and only black Africans.

That doesnt sound wise does it?

Neither does your 'America for the Americans' theory.

what if i and my countrymen were of the opinion that pumpkins were sentient, and you needed in the worst way to come to my country. Leave Halloween at home, and speak our language (BTW English is one of the hardest languages to learn; I know because i volunteer at an ESL classroom for adults.) My example is off the wall, but i'm sure u understand the sentiment. It's extremely hard to find a Job, and a place to live if you live in mexico. I know, I work with Illegal Immigrants, and help them take care of their kids while they go work construction of YOUR new condow for 10 hours a day, raking in a healthy half of what a white construction worker earns. Things are not as easy as it seems for illegals. And I do understand how you feel. I used to feel the same way until I started working with them on a daily basis. My reason for changing my opinion? I realized they were PEOPLE just like me.

"Things are not as easy as it seems for illegals."

GOOD! I hope they know that if they'd come here legally they wouldn't have as many problems.

" realized they were PEOPLE just like me. "

Yeah... they just happen to be breaking the law. It's kinda' like if someone broke into your house and just started living in your basement and was eating food out of your fridge. I'm not saying they should DIE or anything, I'm just saying they should go back or at least go through the naturalization process like everyone else has to.

"BTW English is one of the hardest languages to learn"

I DON'T CARE HOW HARD IT IS TO LEARN... LEARN IT! At the very least learn basic english. The only really hard part about our language is that the syntax is a little backwards from most languages and the spelling is horrible... but that doesn't mean you can't learn to speak it. I'm just sick of trying to ask people questions and getting "no english" as my answer. I can speak BASIC Spanish, enough to get around in a spanish speaking place. I can ask for food, find a bathroom, a hotel, and get/give basic directions.... it wasn't that hard either. The problem in this country is that we make it so easy NOT to learn english that a lot of imagrants fdon't BOTHER. There's no NEED for them to learn it because we accomodate them by making half the stuff here in both english AND spanish. It's BS.

Originally posted by uNBaLaNCeD
..distract us from what really needs to be done here,we have plenty of tired,poor,huddled masses yearning to breath free right here already.
Not to say that things need to stay closed,but until everything get back on track,why not fix the probs here?.

I believe both can be achieved at the same time.

I personally don't like the thought of foreigners coming here, but that is just my opinion. I do think we are morally bound to accept some people from other nations. And you all are only looking at the negatives... Had it not been for immigration we would have never had Einstein... or Tesla... or thousands of other great minds.

[Edited on 24-8-2003 by Sanders]

One of the problems I have is alot of these people that come here receive large loans and even grants to open up businesses that people born here aren't entitled to. Alot of times they are tax-free. And even worse, in many cases they send their money back home instead of putting it back into our econony, and I think this really hurts the economy. I am not prejudice but it seems alot of immigrants are entitled to more than an American born middle class person. You cant even stop at a gas station for directions anymore, none of them in my area speak English.

..true,but that is the past,we need to find some way of fixing things for the future,what do you see in giving away our jobs and money to the lowest bidder?.

How does moving manufacturing,what used to make up middle class jobs ,overseas,while simultaneously losing unskilled ,semi-skilled jobs to immigrants ,actually help at all?.looks to me like a way of making the rift between upper and lower class larger,well what about the big gap in the middle?.

America is a corporation,and the corporation is about to destroy itself.IMHO.

Unbalanced, I agree with almost all your points. I guess this sums up my feelings:

Harsher illegal immigration penalties? Sure.
Stricter legal immigration laws? Definitely.
Eliminating immigration altogether? Unethical and potentially damaging

The ones who make the decisions regarding these thing enjoy "executive priveledge",not being accountable for their deeds is how they got us where we are now.

Like a lawyer who takes a case that cannot be won,but the client still must pay.

There is a very informative book which covers most of this and how it came to be this way ,sometimes I wish that i never would have read it,I could crawl back in my hole and just blame myself for eveything that is wrong in my life,but now I can't.

The path to truth is the narrow one,and you won't encounter any traffic jams there,but if you become stuck,there is no one to pull you out but yourself.
Just stay on the path.

--[[Cracking the Code Third Edition,BB&C(Better books and cassettes of America)]]--

Why oh why did'nt I take the blue pill?.

We should rid Africa of all the pestilence, white people, and let Africa shine with black Africans and only black Africans.

This is disgusting. If these are your true feelings than you are nothing but a petty racist. He said NOTHING ABOUT WHITES. Why do you and colonel make this a black thing?! RIDICULOUS.

I truly beleive we should welcome all those who LEGALLY enter our society. I also beleive that becoming a U.S. Citizen is just like applying for a job. You have to have certain skills and qualities.

This country was built by imigrants.

Our language, English should be a mandatory "skill" for citizenship. I feel sorry for the people who aren't fluent in English, they'll have a VERY hard time getting ahead (which is why they came here short of escaping persecution) and it must be frustrating as hell.

Our culture, work hard, save you dough, get ahead, help your fellow man and raise your kids right. This has to be a quality we require. New citizens should have a marketable skill so they can contribute to and not take from our society.

Our borders, should be SECURE. They aren't. Without secure borders how do you keep the playing field level for those who come in LEGALLY? You can't. Hell if it's EASIER to "sneak in" you can bet that's what'll happen. It IS happening, has been for decades.

My family emigrated here. I was fortunate enough to have been born here. My mother and father went through all the classes, and spent three years becoming citizens.

Ironically my ancestors were some of the FIRST Europeans to come over on the ships back in the late 1600's. When slavery became predominant my side of the family left and moved to Canada. My dad was the first member to return to the USA.

My brother who is 49 years old and has lived here as a citizen since he was 7 is having trouble getting a visa to tavel with because he was a minor when he became a citizen and they can't find his paperwork!

Yes, it's a painful ordeal to do it the RIGHT way but we have to enforce our laws or we will give our nation away...

PEACE...
m...

This is disgusting. If these are your true feelings than you are nothing but a petty racist. He said NOTHING ABOUT WHITES. Why do you and colonel make this a black thing?! RIDICULOUS.

Re read his post. he said it was as ridiculous as an America for Americans. He is not racist, hes simply showing the stupidity of A,merica for Americans idea.

All immigrants become Americans. Where did your ancestors come from? These LEGAL immigrants will have kids, who will be Americans. Thats how we all got here.

Illegals do not belong here though. If they cant go through the hassle and pain of going through background and health checks, they can stay where they are at. My ancestors had no easy time comming over here by boat either, having to scrounge up the money for passage, plus go through Ellis island, get documented, have papers, ect. it was damn near impossible, but they were hellbent on making this glorious chunk of dirt we live on home. Thus, the same should apply today. if they want to come in, they need to go through the legal means, not sneaking in. if they sneak in, that in ityself is suspect, as either they simply arent motivated enough to go through all the hassle of getting legit and simply want a quick and easy way in, or they have something to hide.

LEGAL immigrants have gone through all the hell, they have been through thier buerocratic baptism of fire, and thus, should be welcomed with open arms as a fresh new crop of people who will add and ciontribute, if not in this generation, but thier descendants.

Illegal immigrants shouldnt be mowing peoples lawns or building thier condos, because that only feeds the rich, fat, and lazy. these greedy money hungry bastards should be hiring legal immigrants and American citizens to do thier dirty work, not importing under the table slaves.

He is stating his opinion, and when it ventures into this field it should more often than not be kep to one's self. He made it a racial issue. The first post of the thread was about the nation, not race. Reread for yourself.

Illmatic... you can HAVE Africa. I sure as hel! don't want to go there. What has Africa brought us? AIDS, Ebola, Marburg Virus, etc... If I wanted to contract a fatal disease, I'd go to Africa. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with Africa, they've got great people, beautiful landscapes, great wildlife and South Africa has a lot of the world's diamonds... but I (personally) would never go there.

P.S. Just remember when you complain about what happened to the African people with slavery... who sold your people into slavery... your own African people. The whole slavery thing is sick, but you've got to remember that while it was whites who commited the act of having slaves, it was other Africans who SOLD their OWN PEOPLE INTO SLAVERY... I can't decide which is worse.

Originally posted by Greyhaven
Illmatic... you can HAVE Africa. I sure as hel! don't want to go there. What has Africa brought us? AIDS, Ebola, Marburg Virus, etc... If I wanted to contract a fatal disease, I'd go to Africa. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with Africa, they've got great people, beautiful landscapes, great wildlife and South Africa has a lot of the world's diamonds... but I (personally) would never go there.

P.S. Just remember when you complain about what happened to the African people with slavery... who sold your people into slavery... your own African people. The whole slavery thing is sick, but you've got to remember that while it was whites who commited the act of having slaves, it was other Africans who SOLD their OWN PEOPLE INTO SLAVERY... I can't decide which is worse.

Greyhaven, I don't know what's worse. You being stupid or you being dumb.

Africa is given us life. Everything you see in life, everything you know, and everything you like is all African. America belongs to Africa. Europe belongs and Africa and Asia belongs to Africa. Everything in this world belongs to Africa and Africans.

It was the white man who brought all types of diseases to Africa when they sacked village after village. It was the white man who brough disease to the Native Indians in the Americas, spreading the smallpox epidemic. Where was the Black Plague?

Please, think before you post something stupid.

Africans did sell Africans into slavery, but that was wayyy after Europeans kidnapped Africans and brough them to America locked in chains like they were wild animals. Have you ever seen Roots? No. Don't sit there and say Africans sold all the slaves because they only sold about 10% of them, the rest were kidnapped.

This is such a load of #e. America belongs to Africa? You're insane. I'm sure it's because of America that Africans mercilessly rape women, butcher children, and brutalize the weak. I suppose it's America's fault that AIDS originated there, right? And i'm sure in that militant mind of yours, South Africa is some how the debachle of America. Look at how you and colonel turned this man's thread into a racism war. You should be ashamed.

Originally posted by Illmatic67
Africa is given us life. Everything you see in life, everything you know, and everything you like is all African. America belongs to Africa. Europe belongs and Africa and Asia belongs to Africa. Everything in this world belongs to Africa and Africans.

If you are referring to life in general, then Africa cannot take credit for that, as life arose billions of years ago when the continents were united as one... Pangaea.

If you are referring to human civilization then you would have to issue that credit to Mesopotamia, the Middle East. Not Africa.

Nothing "belongs" to Africa or the Africans.

This whole topic is a racial issue, gore. Thus, his point is quite valid.

Africa, does, however have certain countries that did embrace the Africa for Africans idea. Mugabe is one such leader. Rhodesians killed a whole bunch of white farmers there a few years back, theres still senitments that hold the whole Africa for Africans thing, and thus, racial killings against white people there do exist.

America for Americans: define American. Someone who was born here? Where did they come from? Did they just pop out of the soil and say here I am? No, they came from somewhere. If you were born here, were your parents? Grandparents? Great grandparents? Go further back.

Immigrants become Americans. Immigrants are potential Americans. If they never become citizens, then thier children will become citizens because they are born here. My grandpa was from Birmingham England. he immigrated legally, though with his finacnes it almsot wrecked him, he arrived here with enough money in his pocket for a newspaper and a beer.

But his kids all became Americans, even if he never naturalized, because they were born here. He contributed. he got jobs as an arctitect. he contributed.

The majority of the immigration issue is racial, though not all of it. i do get pissed with people who refuse to speak English or learn it. Thats usually illegals that do this, legal Immigrants, wanting to settle down and adopt the culture, learn because they want to suceed.

Illmatic was simply making a point. It goes both ways. Whites can be considered foreigners in Africa too. So should they contiue to get killed? Kicked out? ect?

Everyone immigrated from Pangea, ultimately.

SKADI, ONCE AGAIN YOU ARE WRONG. THIS CONVERSATION WAS ABOUT NATIONALISM. try reading some time. anyway, i'm getting the hell out of this conversation before anymore racist incoherents show up.

No gore, youre obviously not readin it. Race is the big issue. race and nationalism go hand in hand. Just look at Nazi germany. If I remeber one of thier big slogans:

Deutschland fuer Deutschen, Auslander Raus. (translation:Germany for Germans, foreigners get out!)

Whites technically could be considered foreingers in Africa. Thus, nationalism for various african countries.

The vast Majority of people who scream immigrants suck, get the hell out are almost always, but not entirely, caucasians. There are a number of people who still think America is white people only, anyone else is just a dumb ass "mud" foreigner. I dont see people telling the Russians to get the hell out, even though theres loads of em here in seattle, they refuse to speak english, ect. Mostl Just Mexicans and Asians told to get the hell out.

I say again, since the issue is of America for Americans, who is American? if were gonna discuss nationality, then the question is: define an American.