Support the Troops, But not the War?

yeah, in a lot of ways, i have to agree with you, Benevolent Heretic. but i respect these people, because the made the decision to go and fight for their country and we the people of this land. i respect them because they are doing it for us. i just think that it is a noble and heroic thing to do.i dont support the war in any way, but there is nothing i can do to change what is going on in this world, so i might as well support the people that are giving their lives to protect us in this time of war.

I was really close to joining the army before the war. Not for my countries cause but for finance reasons and for school. You should see the armys web site. they really know how to sugar coat things...but everyone knows that. I think that we have alot of troops out there who have joined for this reason. And i think thats sad that some of us have to do things like that just to get by. Most of my family is and was military...Yah im an army brat. Understand that i have great respect for our troops....but great disrespect for our government and there policies. Whatever happened to going to war for the right reasons?

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Seekerof, I sometimes wonder exactly what it is you seek... You talk as if you already know the minds and hearts of everyone else. In fact, you talk as if you know just about everything. What could you possibly be seeking? You could never impart wisdom or insight to me because your words are dripping with resentment and sarcasm. Your message escapes me because all I can hear is the anger.

I talk with history as my backing. You cannot refute history and what I have said.
I also speak from experience: 8 years in the Air Force, 6 years Pararescue, 1st Gulf War, etc. I have had a nephew killed in Iraq and currently have another serving his second tour over there. My father was a three tour Vietnam vet and though I was only a child and can only really remember him departing and then coming home x3, my mother, to this day, still remembers how he, and most of the troops that served in Vietnam, were treated when they returned home and after the war. My grandfather served in WWII and Korea. My great grandfather served in WWI. The family military line continues on with keen-folk having fought in the Mexican American wars and the Civil War.

Thats where I am coming from when I implied what I did in my original post.

Anger?
Please.
You have no clue to what you think I am feeling or expressing. A better word would may have been "disdain" or "contempt"?






seekerof

[edit on 25-7-2005 by Seekerof]

Kitsunegari,


Are they fighting for us or are they fighting for the government....im not trying to demonize the troops dont grt me wrong. But ask yourself why we are there in Iraq. I think youll find that we are not there to HELP people. Were there because its in our govs interest. And What are they interested in? The rich get richer and the poor fight their wars(Not to say that all the troops are poor).

Peace(Yah Right)!


[edit on 25-7-2005 by Vampcrow]

[edit on 25-7-2005 by Vampcrow]

Even though I don't support soldiers of any type. I have always been bothered by people who treat returning soldiers poorly. As I have previously expressed, I think what they are doing is immoral. But they are still humans and deserve to be treated as such. In most cases these people have already suffered terriblily for their mistakes and karma is sure to take up the rest, so why treat them poorly.

yeah, i hear where youre coming from, vampcrow, and i know that in some cases, it's true. but all of the soldiers that i know, ( and i know my fair share) they are doing it for the people. they are doing it because, no matter what, they love their country and want to fight for its people.

There are lots of soldiers who support Bush's war. There are some, who do not. In either case, i wish them well and hope they come home safely.

I have no idea what would make someone enlist in this war. If they wish to do so, i wish them all the best. In their hearts, this group is fighting for our freedom. They have the best intentions at heart. Do i think this is an unecessary war? Yes.

I also happen to think that those who stay home and chose not to fight in this war also have our best intentions at heart, and were it a "genuine" cause, they wouldnt hesitate. Everybody loves America. Some see it and do it differently.
Me, I've never been a cage rattler.

This whole thing sux...I would love more than anything to one day take a vacation to the middle east. Its now and has been war scarred...forever maybe? such a beautiful place to. Hey i hear the triangle of death is nice this time of year!

I hear that Vamp! My number one vaction choice has always been babylon and the entire fertil crescent. But alas, I'm an american, I'm never allowd to safely visit Iran or Iraq, and it's been that way my whole life! Even before Gulf War 1 there was Iran vs. Iraq(STEEL CAGE MATCH THIS SUNDAY, opps, sorry). And on top of that, the museums of Iraq have been totally looted, so even if we get to visit some day, the best stuff will all be in the hands of private collectors. Ho hum, so be it.

Originally posted by dgtempe
In their hearts, this group is fighting for our freedom. They have the best intentions at heart.

Very good point! It's true.

Remember, I want to gain back the feeling I used to have for the soldiers. Insights like this really help. Thank you.

Vampcrow, I know what you mean. It breaks my heart to think of the history that was destroyed in Baghdad.

I just wish that this world could be free of bias. Ill probably live my whole life here in America dreaming about the wonders that this world has to offer, under the greedy arm of government. when will we stop complaining and actually do something? you haveto fight for freedom and KEEP fighting or else you end up with this crazy stuff. more and more i see capitalism as EVIL. just think of the people that suffer around the world...the loose ends if you will. Sometimes im glad i was born poor

I find it hypocritical to support people fighting a war that I don't support. So I don't support them one bit. To me it doesn't matter if they knew going in that what they were doing was actually legal and just or not, it only matters what I feel about the war and I have never felt that way about it. When it comes to matters such as war, especially wars that are so obviously wrong, I am not about to compromise my own conscience just because some people volunteer to put themselves in a position I don't want them to be in. There have been far more people who didn't sign up for this war who have been paying for it dearly.

[edit on 25-7-2005 by Frith]

You say that soldiers join up these days knowing where they are going to end up and thats true.

What are the lifestyles of the majority of people in the military? Well they are lower to middle class people and a lot join up for the college benefits that they wouldn't have otherwise. I know you say that they can get PELL and TAP grants but they aren't always enough when the military offers more and this is a very enticing thing to a lot of people.

This is why I don't know how you can say you don't understand why we still sign up knowing we are going to go to war eventually. Some people really see this as their only choice in life and if they make it through their enlistment are better off for it and most likely have things inside them they don't feel proud about but deal with because it was as they say "it's either him or me".

Frith, Obviously your concerns and issues are with the illegal war in Iraq and with the Bush administration. Is that right?

What about the people who joined before 9/11? Yeah there's always a chance of war these days, but most of people that joined before 9/11 probably joined not thinking that a war would start during thier short 2-4 year stay in the military.

When you think about it, before OIF/OEF your chances of ever going to war were very slim. Since Vietnam (and maybe the Gulf) there realy has not been a big war like this one.

[edit on 17/2/2006 by SportyMB]

The problem I have with voluntary US soldiers is that they go to war with INVOLUNTARY soldiers. Or in other words the natives of other countries. The people of other lands don't have a choice when an all powerful force invades their territory with weapons they do not have in which to defend themselves.

The USA has a long standing habit of bringing the war to their enemy. And a whole lot of these wars and their methods of execution have been absolutely wrong to me and a lot of others.

When draftees are sent to war at least they don't have a choice in the matter when it comes to committing wrongful acts. But post Vietnam soldiers have had a choice in the matter. The people that could become soldiers could do something to better their homeland. Such as being firefighters or some other service job in a similar vein.

I cannot support U.S. soldiers of today. They are volunteers. Their enemy is not. Its NOT at all like a marriage that is disapproved of by parents. There are untold numbers of lives that are being affected by the imperial whims of another nation. U.S. soldiers have a choice today to not fight for what is wrong.

While I doubt I'd find myself in any military, if I was somehow fighting in Iraq when the war started I would have already done something to either get myself discharged or put in prison to avoid killing people that do not need to die by the hands of lying foreign power. The people of Iraq absolutely were better off under the rule of Saddam rather than the chaos which now takes up a large portion of their daily lives.

I am no hypocrite and will never support voluntary soldiers in obviously wrong wars.

[edit on 17-2-2006 by heelstone]

The people that could become soldiers could do something to better their homeland. Such as being firefighters or some other service job in a similar vein.

Are you suggesting that there be no military in the US?

Regardless of how much you hate this war and Bush 'n company, you still have to understand that there IS a need for a military....with people in it. It's been like that thousands of years, if the US did not have a military (with people in it)....then there would be NO U.S. today. In fact, there would have never been a US...or an England for that matter if any everyone did "something to better their homeland. Such as being firefighters or some other service job in a similar vein."

If there were peace on earth, then there would bo no need for militaries.

[edit on 17/2/2006 by SportyMB]

Originally posted by SportyMB

Are you suggesting that there be no military in the US?

Regardless of how much you hate this war and Bush 'n company, you still have to understand that there IS a need for a military....with people in it. It's been like that thousands of years, if the US did not have a military (with people in it)....then there would be NO U.S. today. In fact, there would have never been a US...or an England for that matter if any everyone did "something to better their homeland. Such as being firefighters or some other service job in a similar vein."

If there were peace on earth, then there would bo no need for militaries.

[edit on 17/2/2006 by SportyMB]

No. I understand perfectly when and where wars are necessary. At this point in time there currently are none that are such.

Benevolentheretic, if you think the insurgents are so right, so victimized, so innocent, their ideology so pure, America so evil, I have a suggestion: join them. We don't need Americans cheering when a poor soldier get's blown up by an IED. That's heartless and selfish. Not to mention hypocritical. If that IED blew up your starbucks I'm sure you would agree that your own behaviour in regards to the troops is an outrage. I'm totally against this war, but anybody who thinks it's ok for soldiers to die and be mistreated is frankly an jerk.

[edit on 17-2-2006 by Nakash]

Edit: Censor circumvention.

[edit on 17-2-2006 by intrepid]

Originally posted by Nakash
Benevolentheretic, if you think the insurgents are so right, so victimized, so innocent, their ideology so pure, America so evil, I have a suggestion: join them. We don't need Americans cheering when a poor soldier get's blown up by an IED. That's heartless and selfish. Not to mention hypocritical. If that IED blew up your starbucks I'm sure you would agree that your own behaviour in regards to the troops is an outrage. I'm totally against this war, but anybody who thinks it's ok for soldiers to die and be mistreated is frankly an jerk.

What are you talking about? Where did you get that stuff? I never said ANY of those things. Are you in the right thread?

Read the thread, then come back and talk to me.

And I don't get my coffee at Starbuck's

I've asked this question a few times here at ATS, and have never got an answer...

What do you mean by "Support the Troops"?

As a GW1 vet, I can tell you just saying 'thankyou' is not supporting anything. We don't need thanx, we need answers and help.

How about lobying your congress'person' to bring out the truth about agent orange and Gulf war illness, so the 'troops' can be properly treated and compensated for yrs of illness that go's untreated because the VA and gov refuse to admit it's real?

How about making the gov know you are not happy with troops being used as guinea pigs for untested vaccines?

How about stopping the process that is leading to privitisation of the VA?

How about getting rid of the government that send it's citizens to die in illegal wars?

I could go on, but I won't

Where is this support you keep talking about?

[edit on 17/2/2006 by ANOK]