"faith, flag and family" - Tories becoming nationalists!?

www.dailymail.co.uk...



I have been saying that within the next 10 years we would see a nationlist government in power. I didnt think the Tories would start becoming nationalist and adopting the US Republican Party platform. This is actually a suprise to me.

There is nothing wrong with Nationalism, but it can get ugly when it starts to go far right

[edit on 25-7-2005 by infinite]

IMO this is just the usual, there's nothing new in this, it's just tories are thrashing about trying to find new ways of saying exactly the same old thing.

People like the Mail and the usual tory fan club can enthuse all they like (they always do no matter what) but it seems obvious the tory party have learnt nothing from 3 defeats in a row and are only too happy to set themselves up for a 4th.

They always have been 'nationalists' (of a sort) as evidenced by the persistant public-school, London 'city', English-centric 'core' of their party.
If you want to see a total lack of diversity and about as poor a reflection of the UK as it actually is they make a fine stab at it!

They always have been moralising busy-bodies (amusingly their laissez faire instincts only apply to business not personal behaviour) as demonstrated by Thatcher's middle-class hectoring and John Major's disasterous 'back to basics' BS.
Michael Howard trotted out the usual 'family' moralising plattitudes during the election too.....not that anyone took the slightest bit of notice.

"Faith, flag and family" Jayzuss H., didn't they learn anything last time they tried that nonsense?
You couldn't make it up.

They always have been for the most extremist form of unregulated economy possible, hence their undying love for the US version of capitalism and their unending hatred of any other version (including the portrayal of Europes' as 'socialism/marxism').

Same old same old.

My bet is it will leave the wider British public just as disinterested as it has done for much of the last decade.
They really are in deep trouble if they can't come up with anything genuinely new.

One or two tories have half a clue -

MP Alan Duncan has quit the Conservative leadership race saying the party's "moralising wing" could condemn it to oblivion.
The Rutland and Melton MP is the first candidate to drop out of the contest.

The shadow transport secretary had said he would drop out if he did not quickly pick up backing among MPs.

"Censorious judgmentalism from the moralising wing, which treats half our countrymen as enemies, must be rooted out," he said.

Announcing his withdrawal to The Times, Mr Duncan, the first openly gay Conservative MP, said: "Our Achilles heel has been our social attitude.
We should ... allow people to live as they choose until they actually harm someone.

If the 'Tory Taliban' can't get that they'll condemn us all to oblivion."

news.bbc.co.uk...



[edit on 25-7-2005 by sminkeypinkey]

I don't know much of your politics but I know a lot about the politics of my country the US.

I have to point out that you people have to be aware because the "Bush influences" in his politics is affecting the way of thinking of the politicians in your country.

Our government has gotten away with a lot of things, and seen the reaction of the public in our country your country is going to tried to do the same.

Look at the recent attacks in london, they are going to become the best excused to gain public opinion and start their agendas.

Beware.

Originally posted by marg6043
Our government has gotten away with a lot of things, and seen the reaction of the public in our country your country is going to tried to do the same.

Look at the recent attacks in london, they are going to become the best excused to gain public opinion and start their agendas.

Beware.

- I know what you are saying marg but to tell you the truth this is something that has been going on since Thatcher and her brand of ultra-right-wing British conservatism.

A 'one nation' socially responsible conservatism, as practised for decades under Churchill, Eden, MacMillan, Heath etc that is now labelled as 'neo-socialist' by the loopy crowd running the tory party today, such is their degenerate detachment from reality and even their own history.

Whilst it is true that Labour (previously, IMO, a socialisy party of 'the left' but now a 'social democrat' centre-left party of the kind common in Europe) does not just automatically dismiss what comes out of the US neither are they the 'willing supplicants' the British tory party are/would be.

Sadly the British tory party seems intent on continuing it's decline and refuses to change to a more acceptable centre-right 'Christian democrat' style party of the kind common in Europe.

The Tories are under going a back stabbing competition otherwise know as a leadership contest.

Ignoring everything the Tories are saying for a second (not too hard huh ) the basic faith, flag, family concept isn't to bad...as long as its a moderate version.

If they think they can get back in power by trying the tactics of Bush then they are banging their heads up against a brick wall.

But basing policy around faith aka Christian morals is good IMO but not the extreme variant that Bush and Co seem to love.

The idea of the flag concept aka Patriotism is IMO good, people need their pride back and the identity of britishness is good, although not the crazed sicko nazi version, the version I want is where people (no matter their origin or colour) under one banner of Britain (well a few because of England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland).

Now the concept of the family aka family is good, I personally believe that the family unit is the best method of bringing up a child, true different things work for different people and true I've never brought up a child but the family is very important.

edit: because I can't spell (damn labour government education...only joking...or am I )

[edit on 26-7-2005 by UK Wizard]

Don't you find it all at the very least patronising Wizard?

Do you need a political party telling you/me/us the value of "family" (or worse reducing it's 'value' to little more than a - what was a very small - tax advantage to be held as something 'superior' which same sex couples can't have)?

I'm wary of "faith" moralising......inevitably it usually boils down to politicians 'advising' what private individuals get up in private and 'conviction' politics which can just mean a pigheaded refusal to listen to the views of the people.

I've yet to meet the Briton who has such damaging and dangerous disrespect for 'the flag' that we need a political party lecturing us all about it, or worse, trying to do something about it.

Is this stuff something that is really dividing the parties (which party is going to stand as all for destroying families, crapping on the flag and banning Church?)?

Is this seriously meant to be the vital stuff of importance in our politics today anyway?

It's, IMHO, the vacuous, vomit-inducing, 'mom and apple-pie', 'who is going to disagree with it anyway', garbage common, it seems to me, in much of US politics today and absolutely the kind of nonsense we can do well without.

......but nevertheless it's a pretty good indicator of the state of the tory party today.

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
Don't you find it all at the very least patronising Wizard?

I find the fact that all the political parties think they can run my life better than me is indeed patronising.
But I think there is nothing wrong with a party saying what type of society they want.

Originally posted by UK Wizard
I find the fact that all the political parties think they can run my life better than me is indeed patronising.

- You'll be a long time waiting on them stopping making their suggestions and outlining their 'visions'.

But I think there is nothing wrong with a party saying what type of society they want.

- (see above)..................?

(but surely when they tout the most empty platitudes as if it were 'policy' it goes waaaay beyond that, hmm?)