POLITICS: Hugo Chavez Says USA Occupation of Iraq; Threat to World Peace

MuzzleFlash - I was not trying to bait you in any way, I was responding to the tone of what you posted more than the content. Your words seemed to me to indicate a whole lot of suppressed rage & anger that just aren't healthy. I think you'll find that in some cases I agree with your viewpoint and in others I don't. Below are some of my thoughts on terrorists/Iraq. If they seem a little disjointed it's because I've lifted them from various threads I've posted on in the past. If you feel I wronged you in some way, I apologize. I really meant what I posted earlier, but out of concern for your health, not as an attempt to bait or belittle you.


I don't think religions or good intentions stop people from doing illegal, imorale and terrible things--other people do, at least most of the time. When the, for want of a better word, true Muslims of the various countries have had enough of the actions of their countrymen, then and only then will this idiotic behavior stop. It may take years to stamp this pestilence out, but it will not be done by any outside force trying to impose its will upon a non-receptive population and it will only be done when such behavior is condemned from within, by their society at large.

Iraq is a good case in point. The U.S. & the U.K. may have led the coallition into Iraq for the wrong publicly stated reason, but that doesn't make what they are doing wrong. It doesn't mean they shouldn't have gone into Iraq. There were plenty of other reasons to throw Saddam Hussein and his regime out on the street. Does anyone in the world really dispute that he was abusing the Iraqi people? Does anyone think he was a nice guy who had the best intrests of his countrymen at heart? Does anyone not know that he used WMD's on the Kurds? That he was attempting to develop atomic weapons and would have done so if not for Israeli efforts earlier and the coallition efforts in 1991 and afterwards.

Inside Iraq, most Iraqi's know the U.S. led coallition is not there to take over their country and force them to do things against their own beliefs, but some Iraqi's don't yet realize this. Further, some ignorant, mostly extremely poor, or idealistic people inside Iraq and in nearby countries have been fed inflamatory propaganda by entrenched, so called, religious and political groups that stand to lose much of their power, prestige and influence when and if the government of Iraq goes democratic. Furthermore, political dissidants and opposition politicians outside of Iraq (generally, but not always, inside the countries of the coallition partners) promote disunity and factionalism as a means of enhancing their own prestige and/or increasing their chances of election in the near future, or of gaining some leverage for their own agenda. Moreover, some non involved countries, which likewise stand to lose power, prestige and influence in Iraq, or in some cases lucrative business contracts or investments, speak out against coallition efforts. While yet others worry that their country could be next. Stir into this mix the pacificists and horrow stricken who oppose all armed efforts on personal moral grounds. (If I left any group out, forgive me, my mind went numb.) Finally, exacerbating this complex, difficult, delicate situation is an international press corps which sensationalizes events on a daily basis as an accepted and "normal" course of doing business. Put all these ingredients in a large oven & broil at high heat and what you end up with is a recipe for complete frustration and ineffectiveness. It's an absolute miracle that anything gets accomplished at all.

The saddest part of all this is that it's the Iraqi people themselves who suffer. The coallition is trying to bring electricity to those without it, they are trying to repair and improve the water & sewage systems, they are trying to build new and better schools and hospitals, fix the roads, organize a police force, etc., etc., etc.. They aren't trying to force anything on anyone, least of all some particular sort of government or way of thinking. And you know what, they are doing it with their own money and resources--at huge expense, even while their own people are dying in the effort.

Just what would you have them do that they aren't already trying? Would you have them simply walk away and leave things as they are? Just leave the poor people there to their own devices? Let the lawless elements take over and beat them down again? Let some group like the Taliban or Al Qaeda take power and gear up for more attacks like 9/11, or 7/7? The world should be proud of what the coallition is doing, not throw rocks at them for trying.

Perhaps the terrible events of the past few days will help forge a better working alliance between all the countries striving to eradicate terrorism. A much better coordinated response is clearly needed. The kicker here is going to be sharing intelligence available to various countries, as that requires a high degree of trust in one another. Mayby it's time to get the Israelis involved again in all this business as they certainly have one of the best intel organizations around.

As much as it may gall everyone involved, I firmly believe serious economic aid to poor Middle-Eastern and South-East Asian countries would go a long way towards curtailing the feelings of helplessness and despair that fuel the various terrorist movements. People who believe they have something to lose are not going to so readily become suicide bombers and terrorists.



[edit on 25-7-2005 by Astronomer68]

Astronomer68

Your post is a great example of who the Bush propaganda and goodness of hart is doing to the people in Iraq.

You have not clue as what is going in the middle "poor countries of the east"

I rest my case.

Originally posted by centurion1211
Before everyone gets too enamored with Hugo Chavez, remember that Fidel Castro is Chavez's favorite person in the world and his role model.

Actually,
Simon Bolivar is his role model and favorite person. Fidel is a time bomb waiting to blow. Chavez obviuosly wants to get a peice of the pie when the old man gives out.

Originally posted by centurion1211
Castro is hardly a beacon for human rights and is also the person that sent Che Guevarra out to terrorize latin America in the 1960's as part of his plan to spread communism throughout the Western hemisphere.

After Fidel gained total power of Cuba he began killing all his important and top officers. Che Guevarra fled to bolivia and was later murdered? by the CIA. Who were tipped of by Fidel.
Yes, Fidel as well as "el Che" are the makings of the CIA.