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POLITICS: Hugo Chavez Says USA Occupation of Iraq; Threat to World Peace

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posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 12:07 AM
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Hugo Chavez, president of Venezuela and present day rival to the Bush administration stated in a comment regarding the Egypt bombings that the U.S.A's occupation of Iraq is a threat to world peace. Chavez, who has been very vocal in his opposition to the war in Iraq, feels that the U.S./Iraq situation will spur more terrorist attacks around the world. He feels that instead of a war on terrorism, more of the U.S.'s efforts should be focused on economically helping poorer countries.

 



ap.tbo.com
Chavez, a fierce critic of U.S. foreign policy and the Iraq war, condemned the attacks that killed at least 88 people early Saturday in Sharm el-Sheik, Egypt, noting he also condemned the recent subway and bus bombings in London.

"There is nothing that can justify abominable acts like these," Chavez said during a speech late Sunday.

"It must be asked if these acts would be occurring if the U.S. government hadn't invaded Iraq," Chavez said. "I think not."

He said the invasion of Iraq, "staged on grand lies like those that said the Iraqi government had weapons of mass destruction - which never appeared - now is impacting world peace in a terrible way."




Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


Tensions between the Bush Administration and Chavez continues to increase. Hugo Chavez is an outspoken man, similar to his friend Fidel Castro and he speaks his mind much to the dismay of the United States. Public criticism from foreign dignitaries is never an easy pill to swallow and Chavez's statement will surely widen the distance between his administration and current U.S. policies. Regardless of his criticism though, Chavez still values the U.S. dollar and continues to supply oil to the U.S.A.

Related News Links:
www9.sbs.com.au




posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 04:33 AM
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How ever hard this may be to accept there is an element of truth to the statement.

America did manage to destroy that majority of the terrorist training grounds in Afghanistan after the invasion and removal of the Taliban.
Now with the invasion of Iraq the coalition forces have removed the most effective force for keeping insurgent activities out of Iraq – namely Saddam Hussein’s regime – and as a consequence have provided a training ground and bases of operations for Terrorists. It is as a direct result of this that the network of terrorist groups has been able to start-up operations again.



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 08:08 AM
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if we actually helped poor nations solve their problems;
and helped our own people here in USA solve their poverty

there would be NO terrorism

terrorism is based on the "haves" vs the "have - nots"
and its a really unfair war

we keep taking and taking; and then they fight back and we call them every dirty word in the book and cause a whole people to hate whole nations based on lies

we are just arrogant greedy and we asked for terrorism
by stripping everyone else of all dignity and peace

chavez isnt the brightest fellow; nor is he "a good guy" but he is certainly right if America would focus on helping everyone ; instead of subjegating them
the war on terrorism would be over pretty quickly
then the war on drugs would end too

and for the most part; future wars would be improbable

just my opinion

oh ya i need to add this for anyone who thinks im liberal or antiamerican
im NOT
i believe in Democracy and Good-Will
I love america more than anything in the universe *cept my daughter* and protecting america = protecting my children

but going and killing other peoples children will not keep us safe at all
it will only create more enemys who will try to kill my daughter

the true way of Pro=Americanism is to Give/Share/Love/Understand/Help
America = the Constitution
America = Human rights
America = Freedom

and the current leadership ignores ALL the Foundations of this great nation! thats is why america seems to be "Screwed up" these days

EVERYONE here can agree that america is suffering right now; we are losing allys; we are attacking nations on admitted false pretense
we are dividing ourselves over petty liberal/conservative BS

America needs to Unite!
Under the Flag; the Constitution; and Peace , Freedom , and Equality for ALL

the terrorists are only mad because our corporations and our govt has been attacking them and invading them
even killing their children for Nothing! Cept Power!
its a shame my great nation is being purposely screwed over by the very people who lead it

america to me; is everything; and i will NOT let my nation collapse under this greedy evil which has overtaken it
i will protect the constitution every step i take

God bless america! God bless all humanity!


[edit on 25-7-2005 by muzzleflash]



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 08:41 AM
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Wow!, I'll bet you must feel a lot better muzzleflash having gotten all that pent up anger out in the open. It almost sounds like you're ready to do something personal and drastic if you don't get your way. Perhaps you should seek some help before your personal angst gets the better of you.



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 09:03 AM
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ya ill do what i always do

write a nice long letter to my local represenative and explain my point of view

and surprisingly texas has had a few good guys in the house of represenatives who actually vote the way us people tell them to

senators on the other hand; different story

and im not exactly angery; im more dissappointed because i know my nation is wiser and more mature than the childish way its been acting lately

and your baiting tactics are uncalled for;
implying indirectly im a terrorist
your very judgemental and WRONG

how can saying "peace is best" be "terrorism"?
dude get a grip
4 real



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 09:18 AM
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Personally, I think Muzzleflash makes a lot of sense.

Good post, Muzzleflash. Sounds like you've got your head in the right place. I wish there were a lot more people of the same mind as yourself. The world would be a lot better off ...



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 09:39 AM
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Chavez is only putting into words what we already know and have seen since the Middle East conflicts.

Yesterday I was watching the news about the latest attacks in Egypt, and people in the region agree that even when these type of attacks happen to them every so often, they are finding that they are getting worst.

No only the attacks are geared to anything that has to do with the western but they are targeting people in the region that their only sin is working in the places that has been attacked.

Will this bring a new wave of awareness within the citizens of these countries, and push their governments to be stronger in their measures against terrorism?

Or they will keep protecting the master minders.

Something that the man interviewed from Egypt said that got me was that real Egyptian people muslin or Islam will never target their own.

I believe him, in a way that how much certain people will be willing to kill or sacrifice others to keep their agenda going.

Just a thought, after all the middle east region is and will always be seen as a bloody battle in which they have not respect for their own people, Right? So one attack over another you just pinned to the most evil master minded of all "Bin ladden"

As usual are many taking advantage of the struggles in the Middle East and not necessarily it has to be all alqaida done.

I wonder.



[edit on 25-7-2005 by marg6043]



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 10:07 AM
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I also wonder whenever something happens like the bombings in Egypt if the Muslim community, and maybe others, as well, might be thinking to themselves, "If it weren't for the US and UK this wouldn't have happened. It's their fault!".

Just a thought ...



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 10:14 AM
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Originally posted by muzzleflash

and the current leadership ignores ALL the Foundations of this great nation! thats is why america seems to be "Screwed up" these days


Hey Muzzleflash - I actually agree with most of what you said, except for this. Its not just the current leadership that is out of control. I think you need to look at the activities of your governmentS over the past 60 years, since WWII (if not before)...which have been like a runaway train, running roughshod over many, many countries in the name of greed, in the name of power mongering.

See the Bill Moyers segment in my signature "The Secret Government" and you'll see what I mean.



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 11:35 AM
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Wow!, I'll bet you must feel a lot better muzzleflash having gotten all that pent up anger out in the open. It almost sounds like you're ready to do something personal and drastic if you don't get your way. Perhaps you should seek some help before your personal angst gets the better of you.


What does this have to do with the topic at hand? Are you adding anything productive, or trying to dissuade Muzzle's opinion through an obvious attack on his pyschology?

Hugo Chavez, on the other hand, has spoken out against the Bush Administration countless times, and mostly to the deaf eared media. This war has encouraged more terrorist cells to becoime active, and I'm also guessing that some of these attacks were carried out by the U.S. themselves in effort too spur more.

Luzifero



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 12:10 PM
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Before everyone gets too enamored with Hugo Chavez, remember that Fidel Castro is Chavez's favorite person in the world and his role model. Castro is hardly a beacon for human rights and is also the person that sent Che Guevarra out to terrorize latin America in the 1960's as part of his plan to spread communism throughout the Western hemisphere.



[edit on 7/25/2005 by centurion1211]



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 01:00 PM
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Originally posted by Astronomer68
Wow!, I'll bet you must feel a lot better muzzleflash having gotten all that pent up anger out in the open. It almost sounds like you're ready to do something personal and drastic if you don't get your way.

Well, there are a few alternatives:
We The People Foundation,
Move On &
NESARA are three that immediately come to mind.


Originally posted by netbound
I also wonder whenever something happens like the bombings in Egypt if the Muslim community, and maybe others, as well, might be thinking to themselves, "If it weren't for the US and UK this wouldn't have happened. It's their fault!".

Just a thought ...

Well, consider the fact that Middle Eastern countries have been fighting over "The Holy Land" for a long time before the USA was ever formed...Now they've just got another excuse to keep fighting.

Originally posted by AlwaysLearning
Hey Muzzleflash - I actually agree with most of what you said, except for this. Its not just the current leadership that is out of control. I think you need to look at the activities of your governmentS over the past 60 years, since WWII (if not before)...which have been like a runaway train, running roughshod over many, many countries in the name of greed, in the name of power mongering.

Actually, before...Looong before.
In all of human history, any & all "governments" that have formed to "govern" the people have been like that. I've posted a brief history of humanity right over here. Personally, I prefer peaceful methods of opposing a government that's gotten out of control...But as history shows, it'll more likely come to violence.

However, this modern age has something that none of our ancestors had: The ability to seek out truth on our own regardless of what the "powers that be" have tried to squelch...All through the technology of the internet & "alternative" sources of information.
All through history, the "reigning government's" best tool to keep control has been by controlling information & who can access it...The internet blew open the door on that! Considering that ATS & the internet at large is a worldwide community, don't let "them" censor it out from under us. To do so would be to deprive the following generations the chance to keep this "worldwide community" together & to help spread knowledge & understanding amongst us all.
Governments have always bred fear & ignorance into the people & sought to socially isolate us from each other (Dems vs. Reps, Whites vs. Blacks, Islam vs. Christianity, Haves vs. Have-nots, The Generation Gap, etc.) through use of the popular media (in more ancient times, the popular media would've been more like the Town Cryer
). The internet gives us a chance to better understand each other & dispel that fear...That's our best weapon against enforced ignorance.

[edit on 25-7-2005 by MidnightDStroyer]



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 01:25 PM
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Before I say anything on topic I want to say that Astronomers comments must of been taken out of context. He is a very knowledgeable and conscientious poster and I dont think he was baiting anybody.


Back on topic, I think Chavez is right. Irrespective of the messenger, the message is sound. His relationship with Fidel Castro has nothing to do with his comments. And the reference to human rights abuses carries no weight any more when Guantanamo Bay still remains in use.

The only sure fire way of ending Islamic terrorism is for the West to invent a fossil fuel alternative. We'd drop the Middle East like a hot potato. They would get their wish of banishing the infidels from their countries and we would allow Israel to fall. Call me cynical but we arent focusing on the Middle East out of the goodness of our hearts, its whats under their feet that we covet and seek to control.

[edit on 25/7/05 by subz]



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 02:08 PM
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Subz,

(sorry i have to go off topic just to rebuke that atrocity posted by astronomer)

Apparently psychology evades you, especially within the context of baiting. The REASON behind the baiting, im sure, is arguable however, baiting none the less it was. I suspect to gather communal support for what it is astronomer had as his only mechanism that he could muster up with respect to muzzleflash's views to ellicit a response and negativity toward muzzles views. This is, typically, the sign of someone who has a strong need for attention, and a serious lacking of it. OTherwise why post something completely unrelated to the topic at hand. It was totally uncalled for, and frankly i think he needs to exercise a bit more discretion before attemtptiong to censor someone elses viewpoint as though his view should be the only one acceptable.

(now on topic)

I agree with you that just because of a relationship with someone, doesnt support that you share their views. I love my father, but honestly, i think his views on most every topic we discuss are WAY off base..especially with respect to this anti-terrorism BS. He truly believes that the current administration (term used loosely when in my mind is seemingly more like mis-administration) have conscientiously been looking after our welfare and well-being by purporting to be the Worlds Next Wonder and the only ones capable of finally stamping their foot on the terrorism bug once and for all. There is SO MUCH mis-information being fed to you people that it seems to me you keep running in circles (not literally, but in comment especially in open forums such as this) as to "what is conspiracy?" "how much of this is true?" "weapons of mass destruction! they MUST be there"...you are being fed this, you are afraid of this and the only beneficiarys to the end-result is who? Yes the administration. They keep the war going for their own benefit, because the only ones losing are the ones who really care about one another as people, the innocents. One type of technology or another isnt what it will take to curb terrorism, because as much technology as can be engineered, a counter-measure for determining its effectiveness can be equally as engineered and proving a new technology to an already suspicious population would be risky at best. Oil will always be around and the most popular form of energy this is not what is causing terrorism that "we the infidels" are in their country. Whats really bothering them? Think about that...we dont CARE! We dont CARE about other people, we turn a blind eye to the truly needy, we wage war based on whether or not someone had a bad hair day instead of a CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER....was any danger "clear and present" to anyone who DOES back this war in iraq? and if so would you be kind enough to forward and proof of such clear and present danger? Until then, until we care, until TRUE freedom is realized and equality globally is realized there will always continue to be terrorism, and the GWBushs of the world and all of america isnt big enough to stop it. Just help the needy, help the starving, dont be such a decadent society and only see yourself when you look out the window, see everyone in the world...give someone money if they ask for it for absolutely no reason, drop what your doing and stop putting so much emphasis on what it you WANT to have, and put a little more emphasis on what it is you want OTHERS to have, namely a life and the chance to live. I dont say this out of anger (to forestall any comments of my needing social review), but i say this out of frustration everytime i look outside of my own enclosed little world. We need to help, people...wake up and start helping OTHERS to live.



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 02:16 PM
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*off topic* Can we please cut out this off topic stuff? It does nothing to further the "on topic".



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 02:30 PM
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There is a thread below that I started a few weeks ago have a look at the link its Hugo Sanchez vs America. I thought some might find this article interesting. See what you think, does America have another enemy or is he just a loud mouth?

politics.abovetopsecret.com...

(Edit to fix link)

[edit on 25-7-2005 by asala]



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 03:44 PM
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Where was Chavez had to say about 1993 terrorist attacks of WTC buildings? Where was he when al Qaeda caused terrorist attacks in the 1990s? Where was he when other terrorist groups attacked, bombed and killed people, hijacking planes since 1970s? Where was he when the Chechens mounted several murderous attacks against his bigtime ally, Russia since 1990s?!
Oh, sure, Putin not being an authoritarian President while undermining democracy in Russia, eh, Chavez?

Chavez is an idiot for mouthing political nonsense against the Bush administration or the war in Iraq while clearing ignoring terrorism against American, Western, Russian, or Israeli interests been going on for so long.

Chavez, meet Pot. Pot, this is Kettle...er...Chavez.


[edit on 7/25/2005 by the_oleneo]



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 03:54 PM
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Originally posted by Astronomer68
Wow!, I'll bet you must feel a lot better muzzleflash having gotten all that pent up anger out in the open. It almost sounds like you're ready to do something personal and drastic if you don't get your way. Perhaps you should seek some help before your personal angst gets the better of you.


I agreed.
Muzzleflash have no grasp on reality. Perhaps a good on-going dose of Little Green Footballs would do him in.



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 04:08 PM
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gee, a rival to Bush has something bad to say about him and his policies. A leader who's caused friction with his neighbors, notorious holdout of an oppressive regime, who's been accused of corruption and worse (try talking to any Venezuelan who's escaped that land, who wasn't part of the "in" crowd) says something's wrong?

This "ignore the messenger, look to the message" is the sort of attitude that has allowed American government to deteriorate. When governments are involvved, and world leaders, a messenger's agenda and personal integrity are paramount. When a dictator's personal opinion becomes policy and leads to the death and torture of thousands, or a leader's poorly thought out response in a moment of emotional intensity helps to destroy an alliance years spent in the making.

In world politics, agenda means more than words. What a person does must be understood to be more valuable than what he says. And people need to stop justifying messages that support their partisanship even when it comes from the mouths of the corrupt. As we should learn to listen to the messages that we don't want to hear when they come from the decent.

Always listening, looking to the agendas and the past to determine what the true meaning of a politico's words are. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, after all. And they didn't mean just militarily.



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 04:40 PM
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i think some of you are distracted by something

let me make this clear

ive said multiple times chavez isnt "the brightest fellow" and hes NOT a "good guy" either

i have 5 friends in venezuala i played many hours of video games with; and ive heard it from their mouths what this guy is like

he reportedly sits on "national" venezualan TV for hours ; SINGING!
hes a little...odd like that

not to mention his wrongdoings
my friends and their familys went to protest chavez to Step down just 4 or so years ago

and they saw a man get his head blown off by a sniper RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEM....they said they got brains and skull on everyone nearby

of course chavez is a bad guy

but ; the message he said actually does apply

for once the bad guy said war was wrong and we should stop the killing and actually be good guys for once

and it doesnt matter who said it; all that matters is someone actually said it!

the reason i keep telling everyone peace and giving are the keys to solving our problems; is because of this old adage (maxim)

You Live by the Sword; You Die by the Sword

and the same applies in oppisite

You live by Peace , you die in Peace

who here actually thinks bombing people can solve our problems?

america and al-qaeda both agree; that killing innocent people solves problems
and i suggest they are both walking off a cliff...into a deep deep pit of despair

Truth= Killing people never solved problems; it only created more

thats the entire history of earth
a "List of body bags" if you will

for ONCE can we just stop this BS killing?
all nations must stop! all men must lay down their arms!

the ONLY reason war continues; is everyone keeps picking up weapons thinking it will solve this problem of "people using weapons"
this is the stupidest solution to war ive ever heard; more war??? wtf?

we have NEVER tried PEACE; Ever!!!
our entire history of the human race does not Know Peace; and we have Not Tried it Before

i suggest we try peace just ONCE...just to see; scientifically; is this expierment will solve our problem
Just try it ONCE please!

if it doesnt work you can hang me in town square for misleading the people into more chaos

i will gladly hang for that
because i know deeep in my heart

That God *or whatever you call it*
wants us to Try Peace
just Once

just one try is all we need
one day of peace

and i promise you on my soul
this war will end
the death will end

we must lay down these weapons
if we expect to win this war; on terror

i believe its about Advancement; into a Higher Race
Social evolution
peace is the key to unlocking the potential of mankind
and this will usher in a age of exploration; science; and Good Will towards All Mankind

just try it once
if im wrong
hang me




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