not only middle easterners are terrorists

Originally posted by hellfire3
Similarities between Hitler and Bush

1.

Same can be said for anyone, with power

2.

So?

3.

So has
1927 Charles Augustus Lindbergh
1928 Walter P. Chrysler
1929 Owen D. Young
1930 Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
1931 Pierre Laval
1932 Franklin Delano Roosevelt
1933 Hugh Samuel Johnson
1934 Franklin Delano Roosevelt
1935 Haile Selassie
1936 Mrs. Wallis Warfield Simpson
1937 Generalissimo & Mme Chiang Kai-Shek
1938 Adolf Hitler
1939 Joseph Stalin
1940 Winston Leonard Spencer Churchill
1941 Franklin Delano Roosevelt
1942 Joseph Stalin
1943 George Catlett Marshall
1944 Dwight David Eisenhower
1945 Harry Truman
1946 James F. Byrnes
1947 George Catlett Marshall
1948 Harry Truman
1949 Winston Leonard Spencer Churchill
1950 American Fighting-Man
1951 Mohammed Mossadegh
1952 Elizabeth II
1953 Konrad Adenauer
1954 John Foster Dulles
1955 Harlow Herbert Curtice
1956 Hungarian Freedom Fighter
1957 Nikita Krushchev
1958 Charles De Gaulle
1959 Dwight David Eisenhower
1960 U.S. Scientists
1961 John Fitzgerald Kennedy
1962 Pope John XXIII
1963 Martin Luther King Jr.
1964 Lyndon B. Johnson
1965 General William Childs Westmoreland
1966 Twenty-Five and Under
1967 Lyndon B. Johnson
1968 Astronauts Anders, Borman and Lovell
1969 The Middle Americans
1970 Willy Brandt
1971 Richard Milhous Nixon
1972 Nixon and Kissinger
1973 John J. Sirica
1974 King Faisal
1975 American Women
1976 Jimmy Carter
1977 Anwar Sadat
1978 Teng Hsiao-P'ing
1979 Ayatullah Khomeini
1980 Ronald Reagan
1981 Lech Walesa
1982 The Computer
1983 Ronald Regan & Yuri Andropov
1984 Peter Ueberroth
1985 Deng Xiaoping
1986 Corazon Aquino
1987 Mikhail Sergeyevich Gorbachev
1988 Endangered Earth
1989 Mikhail Sergeyevich Gorbachev
1990 The Two George Bushes
1991 Ted Turner
1992 Bill Clinton
1993 The Peacemakers
1994 Pope John Paul II
1995 Newt Gingrich
1996 Dr. David Ho
1997 Andy Grove
1998 Bill Clinton and Kenneth Starr
1999 Jeff Bezos
2000 George W. Bush
2001 Rudolph Giuliani
2002 The Whistleblowers
2003 The American Soldier
2004 George W. Bush

4.

Both are/were leaders during War times,Do you expect companies to say no when they have a chance to make money?

5.

Hitler Marked them, Bush supported the ban for gay MARRIAGE, How can Homosexuals expect to be given the title of a bond, which is christian, when chritianity, doesnt support homosexuality?

6.

Bush, Has time and time agan said things in support of excepting and not descriminating against muslims, Yes we are at war in the middle east, because They started it, This statement is no different,
then a Black man walking up to me, punching me in the face, then me hitting him back, and then saying because i hit him back i am a racist.

7.

Afghanistan Illegals? You were alseep during that whole 9/11 thing werent you?, Iraq? Saddams violations of U.N sanctions, and Crimes against humanity were justification enough.

8.

You pulled that one out of your as didnt you?

9.

Maybe you missed out on the fact bush was a christian before, any of these wars started, And he never attacked anyone, It wasnt until they took our planes, flew them into our buildings before he attacked them.
You prolly also missed out on the fact that clinton had a little thing of his own with the middle east during his term's.

10.

You guys just cant accept the fact that you LOST, can you?

11.

12.

The fact that they Hijacked OUR planes, and flew then into OUR buildings, Killing OUR people, Wasnt a reason to build up the military?

13.

Maybe you missed out on the fact we are in a WAR.

14.

15.

Nope sorry again, Hitler used what we call Concentration camps, or as some call, Death camps, See he took all the jews, and put them into box cars then gassed them to death, He did this by the millions.
Bush, Had a facility built to HOLD foreign fighters, OUR ENEMY, Who get clean clothing, Warm food, Which i might add respects there religious beliefs, They are also given there holy book, Our soldiers even have to handle this holy book in a way that doesnt not offend OUR ENEMY, They are also told which direction to pray in among all sorts of other things.

And the similarities go on and on and on and on.... In my imagination

[edit on 26-7-2005 by C0le]

hellfire3:

This thread is not about Bush. I'm sure you can easily find another one that is so that you can smear your anti-Bush propaganda in a more "appropriate" place (or just go back to the barn yard and put it back where you got it).

Disclaimer: I don't mean to imply by anything I just wrote that I think there is even a scintilla of logic or truth in anything written by hellfire3.

Originally posted by hellfire3
Also, non white, non middle eastern terrorist group such as the Moro in the Phillipines.

Do a little research on this one. The 'moro' (from the Spanish, 'moros' = Moors, a term for Islamic terrorists in the Middle Ages) are Islamic invaders who the Pilipinos have been fighting for a thousand years. They came by sea to colonize the islands. When the Americans encountered them during the Spanish-American War, they found them impossible to kill with a standard service pistol due to their fanaticism, and so was born the .45 ACP.

Bush supported the ban for gay MARRIAGE, How can Homosexuals expect to be given the title of a bond, which is christian, when chritianity, doesnt support homosexuality?

Going way OT here, but you do know that marriage existed before Christianity, and that plenty of non Christans get married too, right?

I'm never sure why people try and compare McVeigh with what has been happening for a few years, now. Long before McVeigh and since, we've been attacked by one group. You know, that group that hates our very way of life and expects, through the assistance of their god, to replace our way of life and sets of beliefs with theirs.

As far as McVeigh, don't even get me started on that.

getting back on track....i think that labelling all the world's 'terror' problems on muslims is not right. Not all terrorists are muslims. Only a minority of muslim people are terrorists. Most muslims do not like war, hate conflict and would rather stay out of fights. And you know what, bombings are not only carried out by muslims....various other people from other religions do carry out bombings and acts of terror. Let's not forget the IRA bombings in London and northern ireland, mc Veigh, Aum Shinrikyo cult (gas attacks), America cluster bombing Iraq (illegal under international law), the Italian Red Brigade, Tamil tigers, ETA etc.

Just imagine what a jolly little tea party we'd have here in the UK if far right groups like the BNP and Combat 18 started letting off bombs in multi ethnic areas/mosques etc. Not so far fetched, disenfranchised youth with a chip on it's shoulder being exploited to do the dirty work of manipulative empire builders, there's very llittle difference between the two really.

Yes, getting back on track here, Hellfire, today's attacks are being carried out by Muslims - period. It wasn't the IRA or the Basques who attacked the Towers, or the embassies, or the Cole, or hijacked planes for years, now, or hijacked teh cruise ship and threw the body of Leon Klinghoffer into the sea, or dropped a plane over Scotland, or has stated time and again that the infidel must confess or die. It is not the Red Army Faction who is around today, at odds with the Western way of life, trying to remove our liberties and replace them with their ideas of theocracy, and McVeigh, who in my mind was a patesy for the government to begin with, is not the one who is preaching in U.S. mosques for the overthrow of the U.S. government.

See the difference? Probably not, but hope springs eternal.

That's right, for those that have fallen for that story

Personally I believe anyone who says they are a Muslim and commits a terrorist act is a liar. There are thousands of people running around who call themselves Christian yet they live lavish, selfish, destructive lives. Is that Christian? No, just like terrorism is not Muslim whether people who claim to be Muslim think so or not.
Just like if you ask a true Communist if the system in the old USSR was what they want, the answer would be NO. Anyone can label themselves anything they wish, but it doesn't mean what they do lives up to that label.
You can't condemn a religion or race of people because someone uses that religion or race to their own ends, or has no idea what they are really labelling themselves.
How would you like it if there was a witch hunt for Christians by the Japanese because the guys who killed thousands of their "innocent" civilians, with a bomb bigger than anything any "terrorist" has ever dreamt of, called themselves Christians.

In other words don't condemn the group for the actions of the individuals in that group. It's not Muslims that plant bombs it's people.
Just like you gun freaks say, people kill people, not labels, not religions, not political ideoligy...

We get too hung up on nice safe pigeonhole labels.
Helps us think we understand what we can't understand, but we are not allowed too see enough detail too understand.

AP&F...King of the run-on sentence...

[edit on 28/7/2005 by ANOK]

And, what people would you be wise in watching nowadays, huh? Those sneaky little Taoists? Yeah! Or maybe those Tibetin monks? Can't trust folks who run around in little orange robes!

Wait a minute! It seems to be the MUSLIMS who are causing a ruckass throughout the world right now!

That isn't being xenophobic, bigoted, rascist or anything else, but observant.

My hopes are being dashed. The well is running dry. It seems that maybe we've been conditioned to be so politically correct that we'll be destroyed by the enemy and deny he is an enemy the whole while.

Dear All who are involved in this endless discussion:
Instead of wasting our energies on unnecessary argument why don't we just take a deep breath and let's first define the terrorism. I have seen all of us (Muslims or non-Muslims) engaged in this argument but have not seen the real meaning of Terrorism, or Jihad that is termed by West or non-Muslim society as terrorism. Let me add in the Islam’s claim that this religion is a religion of peace. Quraan never teaches you killing and destruction. If ever it is commanded in Quraan to go and fight, that is against oppression and against those who are responsible for the same. Not all of non-Muslims in the world are responsible for the oppression against the Muslims, whether in ME, Kashmir, or Philippines. Therefore, if any Muslim chooses violence against the unjust resorting the Quranic verses or God’s commandment, should also remember that he will be held responsible for any harm he might cause to those who are not involved i.e the innocent civilians. Where we mis-interpret the Command to go for Jihad should also remember Quraan’s verse that says “ who killed one human being, he killed the whole mankind” I don’t see a bigger proof than this for Islam being a religion of peace. Let’s go back to history and see how the Holy Prophet was made migrate to Madina and how he dealt with his enemies when he overcame on the them. There was not a single drop of blood wasted In this great victory. Holy prophet rather created excuses to pardon people. Apart from this there are many examples that could help us understand the religion of Islam.

Lets go now to so called Jihad today. Jihad actually is name of struggle against the oppression and atrocities against the Muslims. But before one chooses this way, he has to make sure that all of his social, family and religious obligations are fulfilled. Remember the incident in Prophet’s time when a Jihadi came to extend his service, Prophet asked him, whether he has asked permission from his old parents?? Whether, his wife will be survived well, whether he has returned all his loans or anything he owes ?? When prophet noticed that Jihadi is not sure about it, he sent him back and advised him to go for Jihad-al Akbar. Of course fighting against your own will, fighting against social evils around you, poverty, joblessness, Law and order, Corruption, unjust, hunger, and many many more to fight against is a Jihad bigger than practical killing of innocent civilians , just look around and you will find many things to be corrected. So we if all of us whether Muslims or non-Muslims go for an internal struggle starting from our own house that will be great achievement compare to what is being done today. It is nowhere a service to Islam but worst attempt to bring Islam to religion of Violence. Oh my Muslim brothers wake up, as this term hurts and is entirely against the actual spirit of the religion. Should you feel that there are some people to be punished? Access them and punish only those who are responsible, if you can’t, then leave it to God who know better how to punish the culprits.

I think you have hit the nail Peace2005. Most western media misinterprate the meaning of Jihad. I have had long discussions with some of my muslim friends about this word and they all told me that suicide is not Jihad. A small minority of fundementalist muslims (namely the Wahhabbi sect) skews the meaning of this word to say it's ok to commit suicide and kill the innocents. When the muslims at large abhorr indiscriminate killing.

The previous post made me think about the use of "jihad' and my simple understanding has always been that a jihad WAS NOT suicide but a sort of religious call/order and/or collective agenda from a leader. The problem is, this angry offshoot of islam has called for, in various forms, a jihad against the west and namely the US. Such jihads may include and encourage suicide attacks.

Anyway, just thought I'd add an example of a simplistic "understanding" of the term that I have had.

But, generally I just don't care for terrorists no matter where they are from. I find them to be unpleasant company, deceitful and boring.



[edit on 31-7-2005 by 2nd Hand Thoughts]

Is it just me or is the discussion drifting from "middle easterners" into "arabs" then into "muslims"
And i guess not all middle easterners are arab and not all arabs are muslim
Not to be picky but if a majority of middle easterners are arab that doesn't mean all of them are arab etc.

Originally posted by 2nd Hand Thoughts
..... sort of religious call/order and/or collective agenda from a leader. The problem is, this angry offshoot of islam has called for, in various forms, a jihad against the west and namely the US. Such jihads may include and encourage suicide attacks.

I think it would be more accurate to consider Jihad as an individual sacrifice to the path of god. Jihad does not only mean going to war. That is only one aspect of Jihad. Muslims have Jihad in their daily lives as well.

More importantly though, by declaring that you are doing 'Jihad', that does not mean you can sin....as in Islam, killing innocents, women and children indiscriminately is a sin....whether at war or not. Unfortunately, we have a situation here where a small number of religious 'leaders' twist the meaning of Jihad and introduce fanaticism and fundementalism and turn young muslims into killers.