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Originally posted by All Seeing Eye
If it smells like a rat, walks like a rat, sits with rats, what would you call it?
Originally posted by All Seeing Eye
Masonic Light, thank you, the info was very informative and added to the threads quality Do you have a link to the photo album?
Originally posted by All Seeing Eye
Are you not oathed to help brother masons even to the point of betraying your own integrity?
I know masons are taught the highest standard of moral conduct, but that dosnt stop the ocational evil seed from taking root, and because of the oath, must be protected by the others.
This is what my main complaint is with the brotherhood. There is virtually no way masonry can clean its own house!
Originally posted by All Seeing Eye
Masonic Light, I would agree that in a PERFECT WORLD, Masonry may achieve its goals of a moral world, but as long as outside forces and evil seeds are allowed to find shelter in organizations such as Masonry, you will have to contend with the ritual assault. Masonry may not have started out that way, but it has evolved to what it is today. Not putting the lime light on the evil seeds that have taken root in the brotherhood does more harm than good. The Catholic church is no exception. Rules and laws have little or no effect if they are not applied to all, equally. I have nothing against the premis of "Brotherhood", in fact Im a very great proponent of it. But, brotherhood is nothing and can be quite negative unless it includes all of mankind, for that is what it will take to overcome the "Evil Seeds" of mankind.
Originally posted by sebatwerk
Originally posted by All Seeing Eye
Masonic Light, I would agree that in a PERFECT WORLD, Masonry may achieve its goals of a moral world, but as long as outside forces and evil seeds are allowed to find shelter in organizations such as Masonry, you will have to contend with the ritual assault. Masonry may not have started out that way, but it has evolved to what it is today. Not putting the lime light on the evil seeds that have taken root in the brotherhood does more harm than good. The Catholic church is no exception. Rules and laws have little or no effect if they are not applied to all, equally. I have nothing against the premis of "Brotherhood", in fact Im a very great proponent of it. But, brotherhood is nothing and can be quite negative unless it includes all of mankind, for that is what it will take to overcome the "Evil Seeds" of mankind.
How can you say that evil seeds are "ALLOWED to find shelter" in Freemasonry?!?!?!? They are ABSOLUTELY NOT! ANYONE who f's up in Freemasonry, commits a crime, acts immorally or in a way that could bring dishonor to the fraternity is summarily EXPELLED from the fraternity! We kicked a guy out of my own lodge a while back because he was commited of mail fraud. It took less than a month to remove him from the fraternity.
Of course we can't stop some people from joining. People lie and misrepresent themselves, and we can only do so much to investigate them. But as soon as their true nature comes out, they are not "allowed to find shelter" in Freemasonry much longer.
And what exactly do you mean by "being allowed to find shelter"? What kind of SHELTER do you think the fraternity gives a person? You think it protects them from being persecuted for their crimes? I don't understand exactly what you think Freemasonry does for its members.
Originally posted by eudaimonia
The point is Freemasonry does nothing for its members. Including everyone on this planet.
Originally posted by sebatwerk
And how would you know this without actually having been a member?
Why would so many millions men, for hundreds of years, join, and be active in their entire lives, an organization that does nothing for them?
And that's not mentioning the millions of people that have benefited from Freemasonry's generosity, charity and volunteerism. That Freemasons are an INCREDIBLY charitable group is verifiable FACT. So what exactly are you talking about?
Originally posted by eudaimonia
Please, I'm proud NOT to be part of your sick demented "BROTHERHOOD". Just admit it, freemasonry is a joke. Secret rituals, handshakes, oaths, symbols, how lame
I'd rather be a Wiccan, at least they appreciate something important. Nature!
Why would so many millions men, for hundreds of years, join, and be active in their entire lives, an organization that does nothing for them?
Because they're lost and naive.
Originally posted by sebatwerk
And Freemasonry doesn't appreciate anything important? Faith, honor, charity, love, wisdom, truth... the list goes on and on. I'm sorry, I guess those things aren't important.
How smug and ignorant of you. Think about some of the men who have been Freemasons, and who have made it an integral part of their lives: Washington, Churchill, Mozart, FDR, Davie Crockett, Johann Goethe, Voltaire, Rudyard Kipling, Douglas MacArthur... this list also goes on and on, full of men who you will NEVER come close to. But of course THEY'RE the ones who are lost and naive. Right.
You're a joke.
Originally posted by eudaimonia
Who cares? Like Freemasonry gave Mozart his talent. What a sleazy way of promoting your twisted brotherhood.
Originally posted by sebatwerk
Actually MANY of these men, including George Washington and Ben Franklin, have publically stated that the things they learned within the lodge are what helped or enabled them to do the great things which they have done. I'm not saying it applies directly to all of them, but many HAVE indeed said that.
Originally posted by eudaimonia
Like I said, it's how the practices of Freemasonry is being used that determine if the ends are good or evil. I guess Mozart is a good example of the good, since it's obvious he did produce some of the most beautiful music ever conducted. I'll give you that. Though, I'm still not entirely convinced he used Freemasonry just for the good. He probably wasn't informed about everything, keeping him in the dark.
Anyway, I still believe it's not good at all, period. Especially now for our times. In fact, very little good exists nowadays especially when secrecy and "loyalty" come into play.
Then there's monarchy, and that means there's always someone at the bottom, which I'm against. Levels, ranks or "degrees" that supposedly define a person's character or wisdom is just plain wrong.
The problem is, you won't accept the notion that Freemasonry has a real ugly side to it and many who are members today that rank high in our government and other large establishments are taking advantage of it for the purposes of deceiving and population control.