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This is some goooood stuff!!!

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posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 01:36 AM
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Tomas, I love your skilled handling of the pin head hammer. I couldn't keep my arguements against masons so simple and acurate as I've had too many run ins with these people. I can only put my continued survival down to my deep faith in The Creator God and undersanding how my brotherhood aligned family members think and act. We've had generations of children used as sex toys by these people and yet we still have trouble being heared in our own homes let alone finding the support we sort from our loved ones who don't love us as much as they fear the Brotherhood.




posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 01:42 AM
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I saw that you are a bit high strung for such conversations, but would you please explain the children being used as sex-toys thing? I assure you, the gentlemen who I call Friend who are Masons would just as soon shoot a child-molester than tolerate their presence. Why do you assert such a notion; I am totally unfamiliar with this.



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 02:06 AM
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In reference to secrets, this is an interesting read:

www.srmason-sj.org...

However, as there are secrets, and secrets make an organization appear as sinister as the CIA or KGB, could this thread be nothing more than food for the non-Mason to digest?

See how it works? Once you create the illusion of secrecy, trust seems to go out the window as a general, organizational thing.



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 04:51 AM
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I just have to say it will be confusing for some in the future. I can totally see how so many people will be stirred within from outside influences to move against their own kind, when they're going to wish they hadn't.

The way I see it, the RCC is not with the true church of The Christ. Contrary to popular low-conscience propogandish opinion, the people that worship any graven image is not to be accepted in His church. Be it a Cross, Statue of anything, or thinking, the only way to have a church is by stones and wood. The temple is amongst yourselves. Direct between something that would open your google eyes, by obedience to righteousness. The only way we can hold it is in the mind. To me a link you can not see unless you C it 4 yourselves children.

Back on the topic, Phelps talks about JFK, Jesuits/Esau and digs deep in the dirt to see what has come up. To find his 'hidden-structure' in life gives you an oportunity to evaluate it honestly. It's interesting to say the least.

Some heard, the good will look bad, the bad will be made to look good that
witch is coming up so close in time that you could recognise this today. Everything (institutionalized) can be corrupted. Most labeled 'christians' you might hear from today don't study themselves; envelope themselves in entirety to God's Word. The intermediatary (Pastor) does all the work for them. You tell us how to worship and we'll do it. You don't need the middle man, you have the main MAN. (Jesus) The day will come when many will be terrified and be submissive to this upcoming authority (don't tell me you can't start to see the shadow in things) when you only need but realize that they can not do what He can do. Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life? Since you cannot do this very little thing, why do you worry about the rest?" (Lk 12:25-26) "And do not fixate on (zeteo) what you will eat or drink; do not worry about it. For the pagan world fixates on (epizeteo) all such things, and your Father knows that you need them. But fixate on (zeteo) his kingdom, and these things will be given to you as well."

As in another post, I said you will be able to tell them by their fruits. Watch who will spear-head the witchhunt for the so called 'evil ones' that which, they can burn in the coming days? Answer=evil. More doublespeak.
The Truth has never left us, though the Lies came later and tried to replace IT, but couldn't.




[edit on 7-25-05 by pacman]



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 05:13 AM
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hmm,
part two to the segment is now available.
Part 2



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 02:22 PM
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Originally posted by ElectricCrow
Come on! This stuff is GREAT!!

You are really going to have to explain a little more about whats in the audio files and discuss what evidence they site to back up their claims in order to get good responses here.

Most people, btw, aren't going to open up, willy nilly, programs over the internet in the first place, because they can contain viruses and hacks, even if the original creator didn't put them in there.



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 02:30 PM
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Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
See how it works? Once you create the illusion of secrecy, trust seems to go out the window as a general, organizational thing.

The masons, as far as I understand it, made the rites and 'teachings' of the group secret, and also wrapped up in 'esoteric symbolism', for a few reasons. One was because it was fashionable at the time to form groups that did just that, and thats why we find rosicurians and others forming at the same time that freemasonry went 'speculative' (ie, evovled from a stonemason workman's union into a 'speculative/philosophical' organization). There was also a concern that certain types of knowledge, when cast out like seeds into a field, will not grow in all furrows. In some you get wonderful crops and plants, and in others, nothing but weeds or barren dust. So the secrecy of the 'teachings' are to keep it out of the hands of the profane, for whom it would simply be misunderstood, or not understood at all.

Outside of england, the group had to maintain secrecy as a sort of double edged sword in addition to all this. Because on the one hand, it was seen as beign at odds with the Church (generally the RCC), possibly because it was a christian group and had lots of protestants in it. And also because it aroused supicion amoung the profane, what with its weird symbols and whatnot. So the secrecy of membership protected them and also prevented the profane from taking everything as evil, but on the other hand it gave the group a sinister aura that resonated with the suspicious and made the little bits that did leak out into the public domain seem all the more sinister or evil.



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 03:01 PM
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Ahem... All this started because I posted 'Masonry is wrong.'

...Just lets ya know what a few words are able to do.

Imagine what a whole sentence can do to the world.



P.S: Why is Masonry wrong? (someone asked me that when I first posted)

Well...read all of Thomas Crowne's replies. He did a great job.



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 03:53 PM
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Originally posted by Zeta_101
I mean, if we're not patriotic to our nation, if we don't trust our nation, how can we trust any other nation in the world?

Exactly...So why not stop putting our trust in nations that have done nothing but betray the people & start putting our trust in humanity as a whole? Become a Patriot of Humanity & we'll have licked one of our two biggest problems: National patriotism & religious intolerence.

Religious Intolerance stems from the mind controls that organized religion have enforced upon us...For example, Islam & Christianity worship the same God, so why keep promoting fights between us? Buddhism is a very close resemblence to the Vatican's practice of canonizing Saints...Zen & Taoism are promoted more as philosphies than any actual religion. In other words, people all over the world hold to the same "core beliefs", after you strip away the dogma & perpetual lies that organized religion have promoted.
No, I'm not anti-religious...I'm Anti-Organized Religious.

Perhaps some of the Masons here could stand to read through a thread I posted here a couple of years ago...Basically, it's how organizations of different stripes (who mostly have their roots in "secret societies", BTW) have sought nothing but to control the rest of humanity all throughout known history & continues even today. Even the Masons here should not be able to deny the truth of that because the proof of it has shown up in the histories all throughout the existence of "civilization".
Since the means of control has always been by the method of keeping secrets & using that information against people, as TC has stated, why should anyone put any trust in those who claim to keep secrets? If the "enlightenment" truly is enlightening, it should be shared. Humanity cannot advance until all of humanity shares the enlightenment. Any organization that claims to be "enlightened" truly aren't enlightened because they seek to keep "enlightenment" for themselves...And therefore keep control over the "unenlightened". It's been that way all throughout human history.

Just the historical track record of "secret organizations" breeds mistrust, especially now that the internet can provide some information to those who have the technology to access it. Granted, the internet is "free" enough to also attract falsehoods & lies, but it also provides some means to cross-check info & "sift the wheat from the chaff", so to speak.

[edit on 25-7-2005 by MidnightDStroyer]



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 03:59 PM
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Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Sabatwerk, is that the "secrets"; a secret handshake? Are you saying that is all, because the real-life world friends that are Masons certainly haven't insinuated that! And, why would one need a secret handshake? Interesting. We regular ol, run of the mill Christians don't have a secret handshake, and we seem to do ok.



In California, and MOST U.S., Canada, UK, European and other regular jurisdictions, the ONLY things that are still considered masonic secrets are "modes of recognition": handshakes, passwords and signs. These are set up for the purpose of masons being able to truly identify one another, and to be able to keep impostors from pretending to be masons and receiving masonic benefits and priviledges. They are also used in ritual to gain admission into the lodge and such.

I will HONESTLY tell you that there is nothing else that we are sworn to keep secret except "a brother's secrets, murder and treason excepted" and lodge business that goes on behind closed doors. This includes the conferral of degrees, initiations, building committees and investigations of candidates. NOTHING MORE is a masonic secret. SOME jurisdictions require masons not to talk about or discuss masonic rituals, but these are available anywhere on the web and in the library. Actually, so are the modes of recognition.

Whats more, MANY masons have written books that discuss rituals IN DETAIL because their jurisdiction does not require them to keep these things secret. This includes the entire UK.

Those are HONESTLY the only things in Freemasonry that are considered secret. If you dont want to believe me fine, but I know you cant prove otherwise. So look it up for yourself.



Sure, your lodge is in the phone book. So, when I call them tomorrow the person answering it is going to divulge all those little secrets that the guys at work won't dare whisper?


Again, WHAT secrets?



These guys seem a bit slow, too. Every night at about 30 minutes before get-off time, 5 new Masons follow an older one around the hanger where they are taught that secret handshake for about 5 minutes a night. If that is all the secret, that must be a HECK of a handshake, or those guys are a bit slow!



Neither I nor ANY masons I know have EVER seen or heard of ANYTHING like that going on. That's absolutely ridiculous and I HIGHLY DOUBT there is anything "masonic" going on behind a hangar. Sorry to say it, but that's just nonsense. Masonic things are discussed in lodge, there is no reason for anything "masonic" to occur anywhere else. This includes coaching sessions, memorizing catechisms, practicing rituals, etc etc.


[edit on 25-7-2005 by sebatwerk]



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 04:54 PM
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Uh, Susy Ryan, could you please answer my question? You sound as if you have first hand knowledge, could you please expound?



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 05:05 PM
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You all have to remember that there are bad apples in any organization...doesnt make the organization as a whole bad. Most freemasons are upstanding decent folks that are trying to better themselves spiritually and serve people...then there are freemasons that are hardcore occultists that practice darkness. Look at the Catholic Church...just because a handfull of big wig Bishops are into pedophilia doesnt mean your local catholic priest is a pedophile. Just because 1/3 in the US government are criminals doesnt mean the other 2/3rds of government workers are criminal. Same goes for CIA, Mossad, MI6, FBI...Good apples and bad apples....you will find it everywhere.



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 05:07 PM
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First of all, Thomas, you claim that you are against Masonry in general simply because it's "secret". The password to my web server is "secret". Does that mean I hide a sinister database to take over the world? I could give many more silly examples.

The fact is, the United States obtained it's independent from Great Britain due to the secrecy of Freemasonry. It was because a select few were able to maintain their secrecy under the brotherhood of Freemasonry that empowered us to become free.

Hitler sought to kill the Masons due to their ability to organize and take action while being able to recognize eachother through secret symbols, handshakes and signs.

Overall, the secrecy of an entire brotherhood can and I'm sure probably is used in some less than honorable ways by some small groups, however the greater whole of the organization is what founded this country and delivered it from those who opposed it's freedom. Masonry is the the geometry used to develop this great nation and it's teachings the very fabric of what keeps it together.

You may oppose Masonry much like many others here, but without it, the United States wouldn't exist and neither would the many great acts explained throughout out history books.

Through Secrecy comes power, as information is power. To maintain secrets from those who oppose you or your goals is to be free in your own rite and therefore is the very thing that can make good men better. If you develop a brotherhood of God fearing men with honorable intentions who are opposed by others of ignorance or jealousy, you only chance of survival is the fellowship and secrecy that binds you.

That's about all I can say.

Ignorance is a road less traveled by a man willing to see.



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 05:15 PM
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In that interview he said that Washington was built like a goat head for satanism look here www.freemasonrywatch.org...



posted on Jul, 26 2005 @ 12:00 AM
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Crow, your password is for your protection, as is your other every day passwords. I'm not stupid, and don't merely read words at the surface. I'm sure you are aware of that and aimed that comment to otehr readers.

As I stated before, this country was not created by Masons, but by Divine direction. Whatever or whoever tools He used is irrelevant. A Pharoh in Egypt was used to prove His powers to the world and His Chosen, but that didn't mean the Pharoh was pure, does it?

Join the Masons, friend, I could care less, and I will still not join the Masons for the reasons I have previously stated. It sounds like you are buying all the self-inflating "education", so I'm sure you'll be a 33rd degree with no problem.
But, while you are doing this, don't give me a line about "God-fearing men with honorable intentions" as I can be a part of such a group of people without secrecy. That which only thrives in the dark should be dragged into the light. If it dies, it is not honorable. This little light of mine; I'm gonna let it shine!


You have piqued my curiosity, though. What goals that are honorable are you afraid would be opposed by people?

My favorite sentence of yuor last post, the sentence that does nothing but fuel thoughts of conspiracy, is this one, "Through Secrecy comes power, as information is power."
Excellent. I'm sure if you have the right connections and bloodline, you'll not remain in the local level where the unsuspecting good ol' boys who think they're just part of a boy's club are, but will be drinking the blood of virgin blondes from the skulls of goats in no time!



posted on Jul, 26 2005 @ 01:08 AM
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Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
As I stated before, this country was not created by Masons, but by Divine direction. Whatever or whoever tools He used is irrelevant.


This all depends on what you believe. Do NOT state personal theological as being proven FACT because that is ONE thing that they are NOT. The only provable information that we do have is that a group of Freemasons did INDEED play a primary role in gaining independence for this country. That is undeniable.



It sounds like you are buying all the self-inflating "education", so I'm sure you'll be a 33rd degree with no problem.


He will only become a 33rd degree mason if he makes an exemplary effort for the fraternity. Many 33rds have received the degree for simply having written excellent papers on the subject of Freemasonry, others for taking on more positions of leadership. All depends on what is considered to be worthy of an honor. In any case, becoming a 33rd degree mason almost ALWAYS involves extremely hard work for many years.



But, while you are doing this, don't give me a line about "God-fearing men with honorable intentions" as I can be a part of such a group of people without secrecy. That which only thrives in the dark should be dragged into the light. If it dies, it is not honorable. This little light of mine; I'm gonna let it shine!



Freemasons, for the most part, ARE just that. They joined Freemasonry to learn more about improving themselves through charity, brotherhood, honor and faith. This is EXACTLY why I joined, and is why MOST of the masons I know joined also.

There is of course masons who joined for less-than-honorable intentions. Many join with the belief that they will gain career advancement or have some way of using the brotherhood for personal gain. We have no way of stopping this, but I CAN tell you that most of those guys tend to be really disappointed in what they can get out of the Craft without any effort, and usually quit soon after joining.



Excellent. I'm sure if you have the right connections and bloodline, you'll not remain in the local level where the unsuspecting good ol' boys who think they're just part of a boy's club are, but will be drinking the blood of virgin blondes from the skulls of goats in no time!


There is no such thing as a "local level" versus anything else. All masons are masons of a local lodge. Some are elected to one-year terms at a Grand Lodge. But ALL masons participate in their mother lodge's initiations and meetings and a regular Master Mason who does not hold office has just as much authority, access and power as one who does (even at Grand Lodge level). ALL masons in a jurisdiction have ONE VOTE over all matters.

[edit on 26-7-2005 by sebatwerk]



posted on Jul, 26 2005 @ 01:12 AM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
The masons, as far as I understand it, made the rites and 'teachings' of the group secret, and also wrapped up in 'esoteric symbolism', for a few reasons. One was because it was fashionable at the time to form groups that did just that, and thats why we find rosicurians and others forming at the same time that freemasonry went 'speculative' (ie, evovled from a stonemason workman's union into a 'speculative/philosophical' organization). There was also a concern that certain types of knowledge, when cast out like seeds into a field, will not grow in all furrows. In some you get wonderful crops and plants, and in others, nothing but weeds or barren dust. So the secrecy of the 'teachings' are to keep it out of the hands of the profane, for whom it would simply be misunderstood, or not understood at all.


Don't forget, also, that Freemasonry's teachings depend on initiations to convey their message. It is necessary for a candidate to have no knowledge of what he is about to experience in order for the lessons to truly sink in. This is a HUGE reason as to why these things were kept secret.



posted on Jul, 26 2005 @ 01:26 AM
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So our flag is a Pagan symbol I did not listen to it, but heard replies.Well everybody has their take on life none is wrong or right.This is in the eye of the beholder.



posted on Jul, 26 2005 @ 02:42 AM
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edited because the amount of utter garbage has reached an all-time high.

where, oh where, is MrsNecros when you need her????

[sigh]

[edit on 26-7-2005 by senrak]



posted on Jul, 26 2005 @ 02:45 AM
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Same as above




[edit on 26-7-2005 by senrak]




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