All he was saying, was "Give Peace a Chance !"

Originally posted by The Vagabond

peace can not be discovered through the study of science.

Peace can be discovered by logic.

There is no "law of peace" for some physicist to discover in a lab, base a machine on, and start mass producing peace on an assembly line.

Peace is a state of being, not a mass produced object.

Originally posted by Roy Robinson Stewart
Peace can be discovered by logic.

Peace is a state of being, not a mass produced object.

Peace is a state of being brought about by circumstances, which is exactly my point when I say you can't just invent it and roll it off of the assembly line. If the circumstances to not make peace the logical conclusion, there will be no peace. The circumstances for peace are extremely hard to reach- perhaps impossible in the face of Earth's tremendous population growth.

Originally posted by The Vagabond

Originally posted by Roy Robinson Stewart
Peace can be discovered by logic.

Peace is a state of being, not a mass produced object.

If the circumstances do not make peace the logical conclusion, there will be no peace.

Correct. So we must do what we can to make the circumstances imply peace. We make the circumstances. . . . . . we are capable of creating change for World Peace, so let's do it!

The circumstances for peace are extremely hard to reach-

The necessary circumstances for peace consist entirely of a change in moral attitude. . . . . . this is hard to start, but because ideas are free to produce and cheap to communicate, they can spread very fast if they are attractive to people.

The idea of Global Peace has a secure future because it is fundamentally sensible.

i think we've pretty much said all there is to say now, and i respect your right to have the views you do. I think we've pretty much come to an impasse now that we agree on virtually every term except the feasibility of people giving up interest in their own personal well being for the benefit of others. I don't believe that natural instincts of survival will allow that sort of moral evolution to be widespread enough to create a world entirely without war.

It's been fun.

You said before, Roy, that you live in a 'safe location'. So it is obviously secluded in one way or another. I see your e-mail is New Zealand but your timezone setting is about 6 hours out from memory? So god knows where you are, but you are obviously away from the real world if you are in a 'safe location'.
IF you are from New Zealand Roy, having been there myself I can understand your attitude, I loved to be away from all the troubles of the world. It really does seem so distant and surreal secluded on those beautiful islands in the pacific. But the world still goes on Roy, wherever you like it or not, I had to come back to the real world, even though I wanted to stay. I thought it was amusing how they don't have an air-force because, as one NZ said to me "we don't need one mate, we don't go around p***ing off people like you and the Americans'.
But sadly, it does not reflect the rest of the world.

Don't get me wrong, even though you are older than me, years back I thought in the same way. But years of seeing the world, not just watching it on TV but physically going out there and seeing it, speaking to people, knowing people that have travelled everywhere from the richest to the poorest areas, knowing people in the military, civilians, the list goes on.. It has all helped me build a better and more accurate picture, if you tried this then you would understand why, even though what you say is noble, it cannot and will not be in a short space of time. I'm not talking about 'biased' or 'controlled' 'brainwashing' of the media, I'm talking about physically going places, seeing for yourself and speaking to real people.
And I definately do not mean visiting the 'enlightening' websites of the mentally deranged.

It will take generations for it to be achieved, the human race has been divided for centuries or even millennia, and to expect it to suddenly unite gloriously in a human lifetime is an ambitious and impossible task.
It will take many lifetimes of patience, understanding, hard work and inevitable war before we see the unification of mankind, trying to accelerate the process will only deepen the existing rifts of thousands of years.

Unfortunatly the sudden jump in communications, weapons and logistical technology has forced us into an age within a period of less than a typical human lifetime, where the warring nations and people of the world are suddenly thrown into one big pot together and expected to all tolerate each other. This will just not happen, we'd like it too, but it won't.. Not because of media conditioning, not because of a conspiracy, but because we are nothing more than slightly advanced animals and it's just nature.
There is no conspiracy between animals, and we see the same thing happen in their enviroment throughout many species.

To encourage people to lower their defences will only allow all the many people that want no peace to acquire a greater power to strike us down, and when they do who will be left? No-one peaceful.. and the warring of humans will continue has it has done as long as we have been on this planet. The ones of us that want our children and our children's children to see or be a step closer to a happy and unified world need us to be alive and kicking, ready to fight, ironically, for what we want - and we need them to as well. This will not be achieved by sitting down and smiling but by making our voices heard and physically making a stand for what we want, even if it means physical fighting in the process and showing a dislike for any individual that threatens our existance.

Originally posted by The Vagabond
I think we've pretty much come to an impasse now that we agree on virtually every term except the feasibility of people giving up interest in their own personal well being for the benefit of others. I don't believe that natural instincts of survival will allow that sort of moral evolution to be widespread enough to create a world entirely without war.

The natural instinct for survival is being used as an excuse to kill as a 'pre emptive defence', not of life but of lifestyle.

Many people are so obsessed with material consumption that they are prepared to go war to protect their right to gross overconsumption.

Gross overconsumption of resources is not 'well being'

Moderate consumption of resources and a life of peace is 'well being'

Your argument is that the 'natural instinct for survival' demands that you kill in order to keep your central heating going!

Perhaps if all you overconsumers adopted a more modest lifestyle and promoted Peace then you would be healthier, happier, and less of a problem to the world.

The instinct for survival does not entail the current 'War for oil to heat our homes' scenario.

You are denying that people need energy to live a healthy life? Personally I'm from the desert. All I need to keep my home habitable is a fan, and i could power that with a sterling motor for free, so it's not myself that I'm talking about.

If I lived in a cold climate however, I would definately need energy, and there is no way in hell that i could take it sitting down if there was an energy shortage and i was having a hard time keeping my kids from getting pneumonia.

I thought it was amusing how they don't have an air-force because, as one NZ said to me "we don't need one mate, we don't go around p***ing off people like you and the Americans'.

Well we don't. Try it sometime!

But sadly, it does not reflect the rest of the world.

Why not? It should! Are you guys incabable of repeating the idea 'Let's not piss people off'?

You can type so you should be smart enough to attempt to think peacefuly.

No excuses!!

It will take generations for it (Peace) to be achieved

Better start thinking about spreading Peace now then!

No excuses for failing to start now!!

to expect it to suddenly unite gloriously in a human lifetime is an ambitious and impossible task.

To be honest I don't expect complete global Peace to happen in my lifetime, however this is no excuse for promoting war now, as manyare doing by saying that it is inevitable.

Any progress towards Peace is worth achieving

The ones of us that want our children and our children's children to see or be a step closer to a happy and unified world need us to be alive and kicking, ready to fight, ironically, for what we want - and we need them to as well. This will not be achieved by sitting down and smiling but by making our voices heard and physically making a stand for what we want .

Agent Smith, there is a misconception that Peace entails immediately giving up action. . . . . it is possible to make a stand physically without hurting people physically, and it is possible to make your voice heard in favour of peace.

If you are really interested in a happy world for your children to enjoy then start working for peace now.