All he was saying, was "Give Peace a Chance !"

Originally posted by mOjOm
If your goal is to kill them before they kill you, then that is your choice. However, that is the same as choosing to be exactly like those you're trying to kill.

You are twisting my statements; when I say kill them before they kill you that is after your enemies have proven themselves to be an invading and violent threat. For example: The Japanese unprovoked attack on pearl harbor. That had to have consequences--otherwise we may have lost Hawaii, as well as Wake Island and Guam. If it weren't for their attack on us, Hiroshima and Nagasaki would never have happened.

Originally posted by mOjOm
Both of you are out to get the other supported by the fact that you are both out to get each other.

We weren't out to "get" Japan when they attacked us.

Your arguments are flawed in that they seem to assume that nobody has any interest in violence against another unless they only perceive violence against themselves. There have been too many megalo-maniacal figureheads in the world's history that proves this not to be the case. In other words, you can't survive by simply "laying down your arms" and be unwilling to defend that which you hold dear. I believe the French did that in WWI and were it not for the fact that WE were their to defend them, they, as well as the rest of Europe, might be speaking German today.

Maybe if these megalomaniacs didn't exist, your idealistic views of war and violence may be possible.

Originally posted by Roy Robinson Stewart

I am talking about John Lennon

The deal is this:

Everyone who is pro peace comes out in favour of non violence

All those who are pro peace lay down their arms and give up all ideology other than non violence.

All those who are pro peace refuse to accept any 'pro peace ideology' which includes violent means to achieve the end.

All those who are pro peace mark and identify the enemies of peace solely by their violent behaviour, and label them as the enemies of humanity.


Let's do it Now!!!

It's called Give Peace a Chance.

[edit on 24-7-2005 by John bull 1]

Such deal never stop war if the thought like "New Conservative" exist.

Balance brings peace.

If we have another powerful country in the world, no matter which country, China or Russian or West Europe, and these countries against US.

Such way can bring Peace.

When the Europeans first landed in American, Indians gave them food.

Then Europeans killed Indians very rudely.

Nowadays US just the old days Europeans, killed Iraq rudely.

The WMD did not exist in Iraq.
Somebody want to find a new reason.

Originally posted by Freedom_for_sum
In other words, you can't survive by simply "laying down your arms" and be unwilling to defend that which you hold dear. I believe the French did that in WWI and were it not for the fact that WE were their to defend them, they, as well as the rest of Europe, might be speaking German today.

You apparently equate 'Speaking German' with 'Not surviving'

That is ridiculous!

Ghandi had success using non violence, but if all we do is look to the past for solutions then we are going to be rehashing the same old war and peace cycle. Global peace requires new thoughts and feelings, not old ones. Please stop projecting the past onto the future you are spending the future before it gets here! Let the past rest and start anew with peace.

Who on this BB is going to 'lay down their arms' and give up promoting death as a solution?

Originally posted by Roy Robinson Stewart
You apparently equate 'Speaking German' with 'Not surviving'

That is ridiculous!

Your assertion is very simplistic. There is also the loss of a culture and national identity, and in some extreme cases, a loss of history (vis-a-vis the Taliban blowing up the Buddist monk statues).

Originally posted by Roy Robinson Stewart
Ghandi had success using non violence, but if all we do is look to the past for solutions then we are going to be rehashing the same old war and peace cycle. Global peace requires new thoughts and feelings, not old ones. Please stop projecting the past onto the future you are spending the future before it gets here! Let the past rest and start anew with peace.

Those who don't learn from the past are doomed to repeat it. And since ALL our knowledge (as a humanity) is based on our experiences (the past) it is virtually impossible not to apply what we've learned (in the past) toward the future.

Originally posted by Freedom_for_sum
Those who don't learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.
And since ALL our knowledge (as a humanity) is based on our experiences (the past) it is virtually impossible not to apply what we've learned (in the past) toward the future.

What do you mean?

You post is apparently arguing against my idea that we do not have to use the war and peace cycle of the past as a model for the future, so I have to assume that you are implying that it is not possible to avoid repeating the past. . . . .but your first sentence implies that we must learn from the past in order to avoid repeating it. This contradicts the assumption implicit in the second sentence: i.e. that learning from the past does not mean avoiding past patterns but rather repeating them.

Unfortunately because you don't tell us what it is you really mean by 'learning from the past' we are forced to guess.

It's a kind of logical rat's nest

IMO It is logically possible to have world peace.

It's just a matter of attitude. If as much money was spent on global peace propaganda as is currently spent on mass media government sponsored war 'news' coverage, war movies and videos, war toys, arms manufacture, the teaching of war history and other cultural glorifications of war, then warmongering attitudes would soon become very rare.

IMO If the planet survives the present war (WW3) then warlike attitudes will be seen as a mental illness, and rightly so.

SUBTLE BOUNCE

Come on fellow tulip walkers support this and all other peace threads with some more volume and also please a larger quantity. A peace movement thrives on militant peaceniks . . . .where the hell are YA ????

What is this peaceniks? A game of chess at the tripe and cheese club ????

Lets hear it for Peace !! ( Big ear horn )

I can imagine a world without violence, and I can imagine us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

They say it takes two to tango, but that's not exactly true. It takes two nations to have a war, but only one of them has to be willing to fight.

It only takes one person to start a fight. It takes every person on the planet to not fight. There's a lot more to this than give peace a chance. Who should disarm? Who should forego war at all costs?

Should Taiwan lay down its arms and reject in advance any and all military assisstance of any kind, no matter what?

Should America leave Iraq and vow never to send troops into the middle east again, not matter what?

Should Russia order its troops to hold their fire against Chechens at all costs?

Should the guards escorting an armored truck full of cash leave their guns at home?

None of those things constitutes giving peace a chance. Quite to the contrary, that's giving war a chance. When you make it clear that there will not be severe consequences to belligerence, you are giving war a chance.

Nothing gives peace a chance like the conspicuous and forbidding presence of a strong military which is known to be readily employed when it's nation is threatened.

Edit to add:
Two days ago, I gave peace a chance. I saw a bum wandering the parking lot peering into cars, then he stopped next to my truck. I started making my way across the parking lot, glaring at him and cracking my knuckles. He started to leave. I followed him for a block to make sure he didn't double back. I averted a fight by being willing to have one.

[edit on 29-7-2005 by The Vagabond]

*sadly shakes head as he reads through comments about how war guarantees peace*

It's all about ideals. It's about having trust that one day humanity will have evolved to the point that power struggles will be eliminated. It's about trusting that civilization is supposed to make us more enlightened, not less... and that violence is not necessarily a part of human nature that can't be overcome.

It's kind of disheartening to see that the more technologically advanced we become, the more we go back to our prehistoric instincts... humankind has never been as smart, and it has never been as ignorant.

World peace and non violence is not something which will happen tomorrow, obviously. But what do we have to look forward to and strive towards if we don't have ideals? Is life supposed to be a constant survival by mutually-assured destruction and nothing more?

Wake up and smell the coffee. If you want to give peace a chance, move to Antarctica were you won't be hasseld by any wars or conflicts of any kind. Until then, try to be reasonable here in the real world.

Does being "reasonable" mean giving up on setting higher goals for oneself? Were people like Gandhi or Martin Luther King being "unreasonable" because they had ideals? They knew what kind of world they were living in and what kind of obstacles they had to overcome... but they also had a clear vision on how they could better themselves and their world.

The history of humankind is filled with violence, but it also shows a constant desire to better ourselves. If we abandon our ability to have ideals, might as well do away with civilization as a whole - it means we're accepting that we have never changed since the dawn of time and have abandoned all hope of changing.

Originally posted by Frosty
Wake up and smell the coffee. If you want to give peace a chance, move to Antarctica were you won't be hasseld by any wars or conflicts of any kind. Until then, try to be reasonable here in the real world.

Oddly, I'm trying to do just that, in this real world. I work on both sides of the Atlantic for various non-profit organizations, many focusing on the promotion of non-violent alternatives to military action.

And you know what?

Sometimes it works. And it's working more and more, in many cases. It's a slow process, and one which takes it's own toll in terms of sweat and tears (and sadly, blood), but more and more people around the world are forming their own conclusions that war and/or violence aren't the only options to solving conflict.

There's still hope - and as long as there's hope, people like me will keep on pushing for more peaceful ends to conflict.

I gave peace a chance once and you know what happened? He stabbed me in the back...

true story.

Originally posted by YoungN
I gave peace a chance once and you know what happened? He stabbed me in the back...

true story.

And I was bullied at school. I tried bullying back - to the extreme of actually being charged as a teen with ABH, and guess what? It didn't work.

I gave peace a chance, and lived a much happier life as a result.

Soooo....we've had different experiences. That's all this proves. Nuttin else.

Except that the bullies who bullied me had been bullied themselves before.....which suggests a more circular pattern than most of us want to concede.

True story.

Originally posted by Tinkleflower

Originally posted by YoungN
I gave peace a chance once and you know what happened? He stabbed me in the back...

true story.

And I was bullied at school. I tried bullying back - to the extreme of actually being charged as a teen with ABH, and guess what? It didn't work.

I gave peace a chance, and lived a much happier life as a result.

Soooo....we've had different experiences. That's all this proves. Nuttin else.

Except that the bullies who bullied me had been bullied themselves before.....which suggests a more circular pattern than most of us want to concede.

True story.

I fought back against a bully once too at school, guess what happened? I knocked him out and he stopped bothering me.

I gave fighting a chance, and I've been happier since.

Sooo.. all I'm saying is peace only works to an certain extend, fighting back will ulitmately win the battle.

And this is not a true story but it helps my point,

Originally posted by YoungN

I gave fighting a chance, and I've been happier since.

All that proves is that you don't like peace.

There are a lot of liars out there who promote war as a means to gain peace. These people actually like war better. . . . in between wars they get bored. . . .

Helpful hint 1: If you are for Peace then destroy your television set. Don't sell it, destroy it. Television is the main weapon used by warmongers to brainwash the public.

Helpful hint 2: Avoid all violent videos and videogames.

Originally posted by Otts
*sadly shakes head as he reads through comments about how war guarantees peace*

It's all about ideals. It's about having trust that one day humanity will have evolved to the point that power struggles will be eliminated. It's about trusting that civilization is supposed to make us more enlightened, not less... and that violence is not necessarily a part of human nature that can't be overcome.

It's such a simple lesson, and yet it seems to be so hard for people to learn. Peace could be achieved instantaneously if everyone just allowed themselves to try it simultaneously. . . . . it wouldn't cost anything except the effort to think and feel differently.

Suppose we know what Mr Lennon said about his real thoughts on "Revolution"?

Dallas

Here, you'll like that.

It's by an Australian group called "Wax Audio". They put a bunch of Bush quotes together and made the Imagine song by Lennon.

There is no enemy anywhere - Lao Tse


also


There is no friend anywhere - Lao TSe



Once these have been learned, war or peace won't matter one bit.


Just smile