what is evil about freemasonry?

Originally posted by moonchild
As for the ''No normal masons are allowed to enter the memphis misraim rite'' thats a little pretentious and far fetched. There are 4 dominant rites on the planet plus a bunch of ''irregular'' ones. What makes yours the "one"? especially since your rite have been stripped down of all the interesting parts because of conservatism at the time? and the fact that in my rite we learn the EXACT SAME THING as you do, plus more?

I'm a member of several rites actually, not just the Scottish Rite but also the York Rite. I never said the Scottish Rite was the "one", I am just simply stating that the Memphis Rite is not a regular masonic body in the US, and several other places, and for that reason alone everything you have posted does not apply to Freemasonry in the US. Nothing more.

You started all this silly hostility towards the Scottish Rite with your original post. I suggest that if you do not want to argue, then you discontinue your insulting attitude towards Freemasonry in the US.

[edit on 25-7-2005 by sebatwerk]

Originally posted by sebatwerk
But here's the important question: did you sit in open lodge with him? If not, nothing else matters. MANY masons are friendly, and even fraternal, with illegal masons. That says nothing about their official recognition, though.

YES i did. and if you read correctly my own GM officiated the lodge with him. We were respected and treated like brothers. i was in the same room and using the same seats and drinking the same stuff like the NY scottish rite masons present there.

Originally posted by moonchild
YES i did. and if you read correctly my own GM officiated the lodge with him. We were respected and treated like brothers. i was in the same room and using the same seats and drinking the same stuff like the NY scottish rite masons present there.

Are you a regularly recognized Freemason in Canada?

Originally posted by sebatwerk
Have you BEEN through the Scottish Rite? If not, then what are you talking about?

Actually, yes. I did my first 3 degrees in the with the great lodge of montreal. I then met my current GM and immediaty switched over with him. I had to start my 3 first degrees all over because i knew nothing at all compared to what they teach

Originally posted by moonchild

Originally posted by sebatwerk
Have you BEEN through the Scottish Rite? If not, then what are you talking about?

Actually, yes. I did my first 3 degrees in the with the great lodge of montreal. I then met my current GM and immediaty switched over with him. I had to start my 3 first degrees all over because i knew nothing at all compared to what they teach

I meant the advanced degrees. Here in the US our Craft degrees are part of the York Rite.

Originally posted by sebatwerk

Are you a regularly recognized Freemason in Canada?

In canada, no. In quebec yes, because they use the european model. The problem is only with anglo saxon countries. Read my above post i mentionned something about the fact that we accpet women in our rite and you dont. This was a major part in the conflict. All over south america, africa, most of europe and oriental / asian countries we are considered as equal. Masonry in the US / UK and masonry in the rest of the world works differently. And ill say it again, not being recognised in by major US masonic bodies doesnt affect us. i dont live there, i dont work there, i dont practice there. Keep in mind that we learn the same stuff as you do, plus a lot of extra parts.

I also like to point out sebatwerk, ive been reading yours posts for a while and i have high consideration for you. Id rather us be firends than enemies. I just want to point out that there is a huge world outside of the USA on this planet and a lot of stuff going on. I am part of that ''other stuff''. doesnt make me a hostile abnormal mason though. Its not because you have been told by higher scottish rite authorities that we are a rogue lodge that we really are. I would sadden me to see you brainwashed by your own dogma and refusing to see the world out there, just because ''youve been told to''

[edit on 25-7-2005 by moonchild]

Originally posted by moonchild

Originally posted by sebatwerk
Why don't you also mention the fact that the Memphis Rite is not a legally recognized masonic body in the United States?

Yup. You are right. We are not recognised in the UNITED STATES. I dont want to start a war, but do you think we give a damn about not being recognised by you and your lodge / rite? We are recognised everywhere else in the world though. Your conservatives way forbids you access to the material we are working with

Originally posted by wiggy
Before every Anti starts into the trash about degrees higher than the 33rd, remember, this lodge has NO ties to any AF&AM Grand Lodges, nor the UGLE. This is an Italian order, that later became French.

Then again its not because we are not recognised by these american masonic bodies that we do not exist. Check and organisation called CLIPSAS for exemple. youll see what i mean. And no the memphis misraim rite is not italian or french, it carries the old egyptian values and mystic tradition. The very same traditions napoleon brought back to france after his conquest because he got initiated to them, creating the ''great orient of france'' (maybe this is what you are referring to by saying its french). I also like to point out that our dear Alesteir Crowley was a mason in the memphis misraim institution also (95th at his time i believe, even if his big buddy albert pike wrote ritual and dogmas - the foundation of the modern scottish rite).

I dont want to start a war with scottish rites masons here. I just want to point out how my system works related to the topic at hand. For a profane, maybe the scottish rite look impressive and all, but for someone who is in it, there is a much better use of your time if you enter masonry to have access to occult stuff and all, not just basic symbolics and ritual knowledge.

Funny fact. on june 24th, an important date for masons, i went to new york (i live in canada) to participate in the celebrations and ceremonies. The funny part is me and my grand master were residing at the great lodge of new york temple, my grandmaster officiated the evening along with the GLNY grand master, side by side. We sat at the same table has him for the evening meal, and we had a very good time. pretty weird for ''unrecognized'' lodge, no? Especially when the GLNY 33rd degree grand master kneeled down before my GM to welcome him to his ''humble'' temple.

It was started in milan Italy, 1805, as Aegpytian Rite of Mizraim. It was transfered to France in 1814, and John Yarker tried to Introduce it to England in 1872. Kellner laid out the foundations for Academia Masonica (O.T.O) parrellel to the Memphis and Mizraim Rites.

Sebatwerk, tell me something. My GM is at the same time 33rd degree in the scottish rite in 95th in the memphis misraim rite. how is that possible if they dont recognise each other?

Originally posted by moonchild
In canada, no. In quebec yes, because they use the european model. The problem is only with anglo saxon countries. Read my above post i mentionned something about the fact that we accpet women in our rite and you dont. This was a major part in the conflict.

Yes, and I think the atheists in France also didn't help

All over south america, africa, most of europe and oriental / asian countries we are considered as equal.

Are you sure? I am pretty familiar with the Craft in Argentina (my parents are from there) and, as far as I know, the Grand Lodge there is completely regular with the US and UK. That is really the only country I can speak for.

I also like to point out sebatwerk, ive been reading yours posts for a while and i have high consideration for you. Id rather us be firends than enemies.

I was never trying to be your enemy, or to be argumentative with you. Like I said, your original post was rather hostile towards the AASR, and that kind of set the mood for the whole discussion. I respect many irregular masons, some (even here in the US) are more knowledgeable than many regular masons, and take their practice of the Craft much more seriously. My only problem is with those who are against Freemasonry for the wrong reasons.

I just want to point out that there is a huge world outside of the USA on this planet and a lot of stuff going on. I am part of that ''other stuff''. doesnt make me a hostile abnormal mason though.

And I have no problem with that. Just don't point it out by putting down other masonic bodies. I know that the part of Freemasonry that you are a part of has a long history as well, and I have read quite a bit about it.

Sebatwerk, tell me something. My GM is at the same time 33rd degree in the scottish rite in 95th in the memphis misraim rite. how is that possible if they dont recognise each other?

I dont know, I am not sure how recognition works in other parts of the world. I know that Quebec is a bit of an anomaly, as is France, and I know that the AASR exists in France as well as in Canada, so I'm not sure how this all fits in together. There are other masons on this forum who would be better-suited to answer that question.

[edit on 25-7-2005 by sebatwerk]

sebatwerk please list all the 'untrue' stories told about freemasonry and let the victims at least get some sort of validation when they read their own horror stories. The truth doesn't cease just because you call it a lie.
Victoria Police, the Banditoes M.C., Human Services and Freemasons are giving our press hell here with all the news that can't be told. There is alot of "POWER" seated in this little Victorian town of BALLARAT and being the home town of Cardinal George Pell isn't the begining or end of it but the heavy hand of the masonic community, and all sympathetic to them, has alot to do with it.

Is the press/media realy being surpressed, or are they just not printing what you would like to see?

here is something to feed the discussion.

All the ''Evil'' masons. Like bush and co. Big corporation presidents, and the like, are from the scottish rite. They are the ones concerned when enligtened new age gurus like david icke are speaking about ''the reptilians illuminati and evil freemasons''.

Originally posted by moonchild
I also like to point out that 99% of masons wont go beyond the 18th degree. At that degree, (at least in my rite) there is a terrible sacrifice that you have to make in order to go on, and most of the ppl cannot even imagine doing that. If you are in the scottish rite and never had to do something like that in your lodge, its because the scottish rite is a pure operative rite.

The subject of differing degrees between Memphis/Scottish/York is so confusing to me. Just so I have this straight, you are speaking of the 18th degree for Memphis, which of course is going to be different for Scottish and York? Or are you saying the degree is "in name" the same among all three but that your rite interprets/practices it differently (and from what I infer from your posts, you believe your rite takes it to a "deeper level" of understanding)?

I would normally do my research rather than asking the question first but I want to make sure I understand your post correctly before I wander off to the books for clarification.

Thanks.

Originally posted by moonchild
All the ''Evil'' masons. Like bush and co. Big corporation presidents, and the like, are from the scottish rite. They are the ones concerned when enligtened new age gurus like david icke are speaking about ''the reptilians illuminati and evil freemasons''.

I've had my doubts as to the veracity of your posts moonchild, but this one definitely proves a lack of insight, and dare I say enlightenment. George Bush & Company (I would assume you mean his administration) are decidedly Mason free. Neither President George Bush (41 & 43) are Blue Lodge, Scottish Rite, or York Rite Masons. They are members of Skull & Bones... A Yale University organization (they can't be a fraternity, they admit women). Ignorance of this degree can only be attributed to a person who has assumed a particular mantle, not attained it.

Your propensity for frequenting unreliable conspiracy websites is showing… Big corporation presidents? David Icke (he really is just for breakfast, because he’s nothing but Froot Loops)? New age gurus? Evil Masons?

I believe you are not quite what you claim to be.

Suspicious Monkeys, not just for another fraudulent poster anymore…

Enlightenment? Fraudulent poster? Nonononono. The most unreliable conspiracy theory website i look at would be this one. ATS.

I posted this simply because this is what im hearing most of the time by non-mason ppl who are a little bit too much into the new-age religion. ''FREEMASONS ARE EVIL BECAUSE BUSH IS A MASON'' ''DICK CHENEY THIS'' ''EVIL MASONS THAT'' ''WORLD DOMINATION'' ''ECONOMIC DOMINATION'' ''THEY KILL BABIES BY HITTING THEM WITH FROZEN PUPPIES'' ''THEY DRINK BLOOD OF YOUNG VIRGINS'' etc.. etc.. etc..

I mean i walk around the office with my master mason ring and a pin on my suit. And i get asked a lot of questions by curious ppl. Most of the time, this is what i get.

Like i said before i posted it, Lets feed the conversation by adding this, and lets see what happens. For someone enlightened, judging me entirely and calling me a fraudulent poster solely by these 3 lines on some forum is a little bit far fetched.

Originally posted by Mirthful Me
I believe you are not quite what you claim to be.

Suspicious Monkeys, not just for another fraudulent poster anymore…

Mirth, I at first thought the same thing when I saw his post, and was going to say the same thing you said. But then I re-read it a few times and decided that it seemed like he was just being sarcastic (I hope). That being said, I must admit that there were some parts in his posts that made me raise my eyebrow a bit. Just saying.

Originally posted by moonchild
For someone enlightened, judging me entirely and calling me a fraudulent poster solely by these 3 lines on some forum is a little bit far fetched.

Actually, this is what caught my eye:

Originally posted by moonchild
Funny fact. on june 24th, an important date for masons, i went to new york (i live in canada) to participate in the celebrations and ceremonies. The funny part is me and my grand master were residing at the great lodge of new york temple, my grandmaster officiated the evening along with the GLNY grand master, side by side. We sat at the same table has him for the evening meal, and we had a very good time. pretty weird for ''unrecognized'' lodge, no? Especially when the GLNY 33rd degree grand master kneeled down before my GM to welcome him to his ''humble'' temple.

Quite the claim, must be nice to have the Grand Lodge Of New York receive you in such a manner... Certainly such an august occasion would be recorded for posterity, maybe in the Grand Lodge Of New York’s wonderful publication, The Empire State Mason.

www.esmason.com...

The St. John’s Weekend proceedings were a “day” event, no dinner or other Grand Lodge Functions listed (refer to pages 32 & 33). In fact, the word “Canada” appears nowhere in the entire 64 page issue. No mention of a visiting member of any degree from the Memphis Misraim Rite. The Grand Master Of New York doesn’t strike me as the kind of man who would receive any Brethren kneeling (a position that one takes the Obligations of Freemasonry), he does strike me as the kind of Grand Master who would bestow “High Honors” upon a visiting Masonic dignitary in an open Lodge meeting (which you, nor your “95th Degree" companion would be able to attend), an honor which I feel quite secure in my mind, has not reached your ears.

Your virulent attacks, both personal, and to the Craft betray you as a Cowan… You are neither the first, nor will you be the last. The Brethren here assembled are versed in recognizing a fellow Mason in the Dark, as well as in the Light… To which I would add; in cyber as well…

Tyler Monkeys, not just armed with a drawn Google anymore…


[edit on 25/7/2005 by Mirthful Me]

yes there was a healthy dose of sarcasm in my posts. and i hope i made you raise your eyebrows a bit.

If you believe you live in Hell...

What possible use could you have for the relative angle of another's eyebrows?

Blech. I think the Mirthful one sufficiently dye-packed this would be bank-robber..I'm gonna go eat lunch.

Just to add my $0.02...

The Rites of Memphis and Misraim are available to be experienced by any Master Mason in good standing, via the Grand College of Rites.

www.grandcollegeofrites.org...

Actually, there is ALOT of additional Masonic Light to be had...

www.grandcollegeofrites.org...

So, even if moonchild were telling the truth about his affiliation, by saying that he his privy to some knowledge that a regular Master Mason in good standing is not, he is in error.




[edit on 7/25/05 by The Axeman]