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NEWS: Man mistakenly shot dead in London was Brazilian...

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posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 12:20 PM
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There's another thread that discusses this topic.
I've taken the liberty of cross-linking them to each other.




posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 01:36 PM
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They said on CNN (tv) that he was shot eight times...

While the text rolling over the screen said that he was shot eight times, they showed Jack Straw talking to that Brazilian official...



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 01:42 PM
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A simple non-lethal weapon should have enough to knock this guy out instead.

So that they could question him...or bring him to justice or something...

I think that they should make cop wear an non-lethal weapon in addition the gun they have or riffles.

I wonder what the family of that innocent guy is going to do about this tragedy?



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 02:02 PM
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i heard that the house where the brazilian guy lived was being monitored, which was reported on bbc news. why then did they wait to make a move when the guy is just about to catch a train? when they have him subdued why the need to pump 8 bullets in to his body and his head, without the fear of hitting a bomb device?

if any of you know london, if any group of normal looking people tell you to stop often you think 'run'. you don't think 'hmmmm perhaps its the police in plain clothes, and they want to question me'. the guy was obviously scared and was executed in full public view by some gun happy police.



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 02:28 PM
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The abstracted, mirror world hippies seem to be out in droves today.

1. Shauny, generally, when people yell at you to stop, followed by the word 'police', you do it, even if they're plainclothes. Also, I have seen people cook with explosives. They simply set a block of plastique on fire. It didn't explode. Anyways, if it was a less stable element, just another reason to shoot them in the face.

2. Mwen, what magic weapon is this? There is no such thing as a 'non-lethal weapon'. There's less than lethal, yes. But if you refer to a tazer...then you are obviously not in your right mind. Electric current+any explosive=BOOM

3. Shauny, go back at look at my posts on this matter. He was not subdued, and even if he was...flick of the thumb, and game over. Or it would have been, if he was a bomber.

4. Generally, if you're a suicide bomber, and there's a mess of uniformed police outside your doss...what do you do?

DE



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 04:33 PM
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If the law had been watching him from the time he left the house in Tulse Hill, and viewed him as a suspect, why did they let him get as far as Stockwell tube station.

Im sure i even heard a report that said he got on a bus to get there.



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 04:50 PM
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Originally posted by kode
If the law had been watching him from the time he left the house in Tulse Hill, and viewed him as a suspect, why did they let him get as far as Stockwell tube station.

Im sure i even heard a report that said he got on a bus to get there.


i heard the same type of report on bbc news. why if they had intelligence and were watching his did they not arrest him coming out of his home, why take the chance of him getting near any other people? the whole situtation is going to need a huge inquiry.


Originally posted by DeusEx
1. Shauny, generally, when people yell at you to stop, followed by the word 'police', you do it, even if they're plainclothes. Also, I have seen people cook with explosives. They simply set a block of plastique on fire. It didn't explode. Anyways, if it was a less stable element, just another reason to shoot them in the face.

3. Shauny, go back at look at my posts on this matter. He was not subdued, and even if he was...flick of the thumb, and game over. Or it would have been, if he was a bomber.


''just another reason to shoot them in the face''...the man was shot 8 times and they were not all in the face. also you only need one shot in the head, or two...these were gun happy policemen, who obviously were not ready for this type of work. why shoot him 8 times and have 8 times the risk of hitting the explosives?

eye witness accounts are that police actually jumped on the man, i'd pretty much call that subdued. but to make sure, they publically exectuted him.



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 04:54 PM
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"I know exactly how the family of the young man feels." (Tony Blair yesterday).

To which the reply can only be "BS".



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 04:59 PM
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Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
"I know exactly how the family of the young man feels." (Tony Blair yesterday).

To which the reply can only be "BS".


i was going to quote that very same thing tony blair said. i couldn't believe he said that...obviously he needs a new speech writter.



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 05:06 PM
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Originally posted by shaunybaby

''just another reason to shoot them in the face''...the man was shot 8 times and they were not all in the face. also you only need one shot in the head, or two...these were gun happy policemen, who obviously were not ready for this type of work. why shoot him 8 times and have 8 times the risk of hitting the explosives?

eye witness accounts are that police actually jumped on the man, i'd pretty much call that subdued. but to make sure, they publically exectuted him.


news.bbc.co.uk...

"He half tripped... they pushed him to the floor and basically unloaded five shots into him," he told BBC News 24.

You mean an eyewitness account like this? Pushed is not subdued. And subdued doesn't mean a man can't hit a switch.

Also, it appears that you aren't familiar with the concept of 'adrenaline' or 'surety'. If someone pulls a gun on me, I'm not going to simply fire one shot. I'm going to empty my gun into him. If neccesary, I would allocate bullets between multiple assailants. I'm pulling the trigger as fast as I can while keeping the sight picture. No, I won't simply give him two to the chest, I'm going to make sure the guy is down permenantly. Not going to give him a chance to shoot, or press a switch, or cut me.

Why am I trying to explain this? You're not listening.

DE

[edit on 25-7-2005 by DeusEx]



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 05:09 PM
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DE, News Forum, decorum please. Can we get an edit? I think you know what I'm talking about.



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 06:37 PM
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Originally posted by DeusEx
"He half tripped... they pushed him to the floor and basically unloaded five shots into him," he told BBC News 24.

Why am I trying to explain this? You're not listening.

DE
[edit on 25-7-2005 by DeusEx]


it was later admitted to the victim's family that it was 8 shots. i am listening to what you're saying, but i think accounts are too confusing right now to come to any sort of conclusion to whether this was the right action.

eye-witness accounts at the time are confusing at best:

"I saw an Asian guy. He ran on to the train, he was hotly pursued by three plain clothes officers, one of them was wielding a black handgun.

asian? this shows the guy was on the train and running, rather than tripping or being pushed just as he just got on to the train. surely the second this man got on the train he would have blown himself up...why would he wait and why did the police wait so long to shoot him? they waited until the man tripped/was pushed until they shot him...if he was such a threat then surely when the brazilian man was being 'hotly persued' by a police officer 'wielding a handgun' he would have been shot as soon as he was in range.

"He half tripped... they pushed him to the floor and basically unloaded five shots into him," he told BBC News 24.

this eye witness counts 5 shots, yet the brazilian man's family were told he was shot 8 times. some eye witness counts obviously are confused and this is not unusual in the circumstances.

"He looked absolutely petrified and then he sort of tripped, but they were hotly pursuing him, [they] couldn't have been any more than two or three feet behind him at this time and he half tripped and was half pushed to the floor and the policeman nearest to me had the black automatic pistol in his left hand.

"He held it down to the guy and unloaded five shots into him.


this man was running scared. quotes like 'petrified', 'like a corned fox'. the police were two or three feet behind the man who could set this bomb of at any second, yet they still wait till they shoot. police already had their handguns ready, yet still didn't fire on this supposed 'dangerous' terrorist, who can set off his bomb in a spilt second. when the guy is finally tripped/pushed to the floor the police still don't fire...they held their guns down to the guy, (hence couldn't get the guns much closer) and 'unloaded' (non-stop fire), 5 (now 8) shots in to him.

"But it was all quite panicky so I then ran up the platform and out of the Tube."

surprised they didn't chase this person down and publically execute him/her as well.

"I saw these police officers in uniform and out of uniform shouting 'get down, get down', and I saw this guy who appeared to have a bomb belt and wires coming out and people were panicking and I heard two shots being fired."

only 3 officers supposedly went on to the train after the suspect, and when these shots were fired, i'm certain accounts of train riders say there were 3 officers, and that they were plain clothed. now we have uniformed officers in the chase and a bomb belt and wires. also 'two shots'. 'two shots' that seem to seperate from any other shooting, as there were as many as 5 or 8 shots. some accounts are very confusing and again is understandable under the circumstances.



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 06:42 PM
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I hope this shows the world and the terrorists we allow into the UK through our shambolic and decadent immigration system that we no longer are the soft touch. That for the greater good the minority will be sidelined and destroyed.

Ordinary people have hd enough of the enemy in our midst. Enough. Come to the UK to cause trouble and the lion will roar.

'The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.'



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 08:21 PM
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Originally posted by Hellmutt
They said on CNN (tv) that he was shot eight times...

While the text rolling over the screen said that he was shot eight times, they showed Jack Straw talking to that Brazilian official...


They just said on Global News that he was shot 8 times, 7 in the head. Way way overkill. Seems like the cops are trying to impose their own brand of terror in the world. The police that did this should be charged with murder.



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 08:39 PM
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I was under the impression that they believed this guy was about to detonate a pressure release bomb. That was the reason that they told the train passengers to evacuate the station and the train car. Also told the guy to stop several times but he ran.

Let's face it. If the police are looking for darkskinned males mid-twenties to late thirties and you fit that description and they tell you to stop, you should stop.

This guy is a victim of the terrorist just as much as the people on the bus and the trains.



posted on Jul, 26 2005 @ 04:30 AM
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i heard that the guy had jumped over the ticket machine things, where you put your ticket in and that's when the police thought he looked even more suspicious. maybe that's the reason he ran because he didn't want to get caught for that.


Originally posted by Bamabebe
Let's face it. If the police are looking for darkskinned males mid-twenties to late thirties and you fit that description and they tell you to stop, you should stop.


even when the police were in hot pursuit they didn't shoot the suspect. if this guy is so dangerous and can set a bomb of at any second, why wait until he's tripped/pushed and then still wait while you get your gun pushed up against his head to fire? for a person that was potentially so dangerous the police took their sweet time to shoot him, even when they were 2 or 3 feet behind the guy running on the train, they still did not shoot. did it no occur to anyone that if he was a bomber he probably would have set it off by now.

if the shoot to kill policy is still aloud then i think we need to train the police as they seem inept of rational thought.



posted on Jul, 26 2005 @ 05:30 AM
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Yeah, shoot him before you say.

Of course, this just shows how little you know about the fien art of shooting things. First, the officer would have to stop. Then, he would have to get his sight picture on a moving target. This would eb hard enough from a standing start, with your homeboys chasing after him, as well as civillians and cover.

The officers were at a run, making that kind of shot all but impossible.

DE



posted on Jul, 26 2005 @ 05:45 AM
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a shot was not impossible. even on the train they were two or three feet behind him, with one officer holding his gun out already...at arms length that makes the gun about 1 foot behind the man. i'm sorry but even a person without any gun experience could hit a target that's one foot away, whether or not you're running. the police waited until the man was pinned on the ground ''like a corned fox' untill they unloaded seven shots in to his head. hence, they waited untill the last possible moment to kill the brazilian man...so if this man was so dangerous and could set of a bomb any second, yet the police waited untill the last possible moment untill they killed him, which gave the suspected bomber every opportunity to set the bomb off. it was a public execution plain and simple.

the brazilian man's visa had run out which suggests why he ran, he was saving money to go home to brazil and start a ranch, so he definitely did not want to be caught and sent back.



posted on Jul, 26 2005 @ 07:02 AM
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Originally posted by rustiswordz
I hope this shows the world and the terrorists we allow into the UK through our shambolic and decadent immigration system that we no longer are the soft touch. That for the greater good the minority will be sidelined and destroyed.

Ordinary people have hd enough of the enemy in our midst. Enough. Come to the UK to cause trouble and the lion will roar.

'The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.'


Couldn't agree more, it reminds of an interview with an SAS man when commenting on the Iranian embassy seige:

Interviewer - What message do you think killing all but one of the terrorist sends out to the rest of the world?

SAS - That if you come to our country and kill members of the public then your NEVER going home again.

i haven't really got alot of sympathy with the guy shot on Friday - he knew they were police, all these stories about him being "afraid" or not knowing weather they were police or not just doesn't add up.

I know london very well, lived around it most of my life - never in the history of gun crime in the u.k have i ever heard of either a hitman/ gangster or any other type of criminal chasing their victim down the street, shouting "stop, police" so they can execute them in full view of the public.......it's a ridiculous suggestion to say he wasn't aware they were police (plain clothed or not)....he knew they were police, he made a choice, and he made the wrong one!

The police (or security services) have absolutely nothing to answer for!



posted on Jul, 26 2005 @ 07:24 AM
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Originally posted by shaunybaby
a shot was not impossible. even on the train they were two or three feet behind him, with one officer holding his gun out already...at arms length that makes the gun about 1 foot behind the man. i'm sorry but even a person without any gun experience could hit a target that's one foot away, whether or not you're running. the police waited until the man was pinned on the ground ''like a corned fox' untill they unloaded seven shots in to his head. hence, they waited untill the last possible moment to kill the brazilian man...so if this man was so dangerous and could set of a bomb any second, yet the police waited untill the last possible moment untill they killed him, which gave the suspected bomber every opportunity to set the bomb off. it was a public execution plain and simple.

A) The train moves quite a bit and even an inch one way moves the forsights quite a bit at any distance.
Also 1 ft , anyone could miss it if they didnt hold it right or the train moved.


the brazilian man's visa had run out which suggests why he ran, he was saving money to go home to brazil and start a ranch, so he definitely did not want to be caught and sent back.

So that justify's his actions of runnign away from police?



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