Is the Raptor capable of this...

grunt2, if you want to be taken seriously, learn to type properly, for one thing. You type like a 12 year-old, which is probably what you are.

BTW, you fit the perfect definition of the fanboy. The fanboy does not provide reputable sources the way SeekerOf has or talk as professionally. FANS will, but the fanboy is different.

The fanboy will not acknowledge any sources no matter how legit they are. He will go to the ends of the earth to try and prove he is right and spout a lot of crap while doing it, and in the end, when he is defeated, he comes out with stupid statements, like, "Ohhhhh, the F-22 is soooooo great, soooooo wonderful!!" etc...what sense or information is there in a post like that even? He then proceeds to other ofrums to start up the same crap.

You remind me of the Playstation 2 fanboy I saw on an Xbox versus Playstation 2 thread a while back. Anyone knows that the Xbox has superior hardware to the PS2, but the fanboy refused to acknowledge this, and in the end, he left the thread by putting a HUGE ASCII middle finger.

Get some real sources. You consistently refuse to acknowledge any of the real facts. You acuse other people of being fanboys when you have shown yourself to be the literal definition of a fanboy.

How can you say the F/A-22 is overrated when half its features are classified even? No one will take you seriously man.

ja, i realy dont have your video games knowledge, EngineMan2145

the facts are pre production speed +M1.5, production speed +M1.4, max speed arroun M1.8 for both, the proyect isnt sooo clasified after 15 years of public knowledge, that is only a excuse to start to speculate, because some guys dont understand how works the machine

i have posted the basic concepts behind the proyect, what you have posted???, only the same nationalist crap....

a fanboy love these tv shows, these pop books, these top-gun movies and these pc games, but dont even want to face a phisics book


[edit on 4-8-2005 by grunt2]

You now just responded EXACTLY how a fanboy responds. You started your response referring to the subject of videogames, which is totally off subject, but I had a feeling you'd do that. I was only using that as an example.

You then continually mis-spelled like a 12 year-old and posted inaccurate information. AS said, you have yet to provide websites for your information, and you refuse to believe what the actual pilots of the aircraft and the corporation that made it say about it.

well, whatever, again that famous M2 supercruiser is by the editorial, not by the pilot, but if the people see a pilot name in the report they want to mix together, because they want to believe in what they whish ,the serious reports say M1.5-1.4, with max 1.8, but again the people dont understand because they arent educated, they think that the f22 is speed when actually is supersonic lift

this is getting longer and longer, the f22 lovers will believe that the plane can do M2 supercruiser or M3 max speed, i dont care, at the end i cant do anymore with such way of thinking


[edit on 4-8-2005 by grunt2]

Time Out!

I would like to suggest that the readers of this thread read both viewpoints and come to their own decisions.

In doing so, it would of course be prudent to take into consideration the content as well as the ultimate source of the substantiating links provided as you process the information and form your own opinion.

Ok, back to the discussion and watch out for flying chairs!

This almost makes me miss the days of "USA vs China" threads.

Any unbiased person looking at the facts would settle on the Raptor having a top speed (with A/Bs) at between Mach 2 - Mach 2.3. Supercruising, it would seem somewhere in the 1.5-1.8 range in level flight under average conditions.

uhhh???, well china isnt represented here, i just post the facts, and then all the people start that im anti-american, or admit that they see their planes as national symbols and i want to atack them

just posted the facts, the fas site is clear max M1.8, isnt clear wich version is the supercruiser

www.fas.org...

the other link is specific with the production machine, as accordance with the goverment versions

www.aeroflight.co.uk...

but again the people dont understand the concept, i never said that the f22 ia a bad plane, but some guys love to overate this

Let's keep to the topic. Bitchery is over on Yahoo.

Personally I've heard that it can outrun missiles if it needs to, but then again, I'm never sure if my particular source is simply boasting about his work.... When trying to peg him to a number, the response was 2.5 as doable, but stressful.

Originally posted by grunt2
uhhh???, well china isnt represented here, i just post the facts, and then all the people start that im anti-american, or admit that they see their planes as national symbols and i want to atack them

just posted the facts, the fas site is clear max M1.8, isnt clear wich version is the supercruiser

www.fas.org...

the other link is specific with the production machine, as accordance with the goverment versions

www.aeroflight.co.uk...

but again the people dont understand the concept, i never said that the f22 ia a bad plane, but some guys love to overate this

The China comment was a joke grunt.

The problem with your argument of a Mach 1.5 top supercruise speed and a top end w/ after burner of 1.8 is that IT HAS BEEN PROVEN FALSE.

There are numerous pilots and sources that say otherwise. Guys who have ACTUALLY DONE IT - IN REAL LIFE. I don't know how you can sit there and read quote after quote of ACTUAL PILOTS who have said they have gone faster then what you claim and still spout off about how we are over estimating the Raptors speed.

but im explaining that all the planes can reach higher speeds than their operational limits,with your logic i also could say that the f15, mig29, su27 or mig21 can supercruiser or the f86 is a supersonic plane

I don't know how you can sit there and start posting knowing nothing about aviation and aerodynamics

[edit on 4-8-2005 by grunt2]

Originally posted by Gazrok
Personally I've heard that it can outrun missiles if it needs to, but then again, I'm never sure if my particular source is simply boasting about his work.... When trying to peg him to a number, the response was 2.5 as doable, but stressful.

I don't know if it could literally outrun a missile; missiles are rocket powered oftentimes for those reasons, so they can go a lot faster (though I don't know if all missiles are rocket-propelled).

From what I have read, the F/A-22 has engine outlets that cool the air down a lot more, so it gives off a much smaller heat signature, which makes it kind of invisible to a lot of missiles that rely on that.

Originally posted by grunt2
but im explaining that all the planes can reach higher speeds than their operational limits,with your logic i also could say that the f15, mig29, su27 or mig21 can supercruiser

or the f86 is a supersonic plane

I don't know how you can sit there and start posting knowing nothing about aviation and aerodynamics

[edit on 4-8-2005 by grunt2]

If you know so much about aviation, you would know that released figures of the USAFs new superplane would be intentionally downplayed for security reasons.

Listen, I know what you are trying to say:

That under specific conditions planes can outperform their 'normal' limits, such as top speed in level flight vs top speed in a dive.

That does not change the fact that the figures sited for the raptor are low ballled.

If you know so much about aviation, you would know that released figures of the USAFs new superplane would be intentionally downplayed for security reasons.

ohhh nooooo again the "classified" argument, so the f15 can reach M3, the f16 M2.5, the f18 M2.35, is pathetic the fans see the official numbers , they dont like, and then they confuse everything with special test runs

That does not change the fact that the figures sited for the raptor are low ballled.

, i think that is for the great pentagon secret, not???

even congress last reports -that are somewhat generous with the f22- say that the max speed is M1.7 -look even lower-, and the supercruiser about M1.5

this is one from the congressional research service

pogo.org...

these are the operational speeds, if you dont like the reality, well keep living in your fantasies

i know that this forum -abovetopsecret- love the myths, i mean these Aurora threads, or that M4 blackbird, or even the famous M3 f22, now if you want to live in such fantasies, what can i do???


[edit on 4-8-2005 by grunt2]

Those are nothing but base numbers provided in that .pdf there, grunt2.

I would think that someone who has any type aviation and/or engineering background or understanding would recognize what "base" numbers are and why they are openly provided in a public setting, such as Congress.

Do you really think that the US would purposely have the true and exact data available for just anyone or any government to access and then use to their benefit? Hell, if I was to take what you indicate as 'fact', the Russians and the Chinese, among others, would be building identical copies of the Raptor being they have all the precious and pertinent information at their disposal.

Again, nothing but information for public consumption.




seekerof

[edit on 4-8-2005 by Seekerof]

Again, nothing but information for public consumption.

oooohhhh greate again with the myth,after 15 years of a public proyect and you think that these are still secret, again the max speeds of alll the planes of alll the world (even the russians are chinese) are clasified, but is more relationated with speeds at special conditions

then become the paranoia, "you think that we will show the max speed to our enemies??", the f15, f4,f14 speeds from the start were well known, an at that time these proyects were in a more compromising situation -cold war-

the problem is that the fans dont like the speed -because they just dont understand the concept-, then they just say "its secret"

Grunt, do you have anything to add that isn't confrontational? It seems like all you're doing here is dissing other members. I hate that.

Grunt, do you have anything to add that isn't confrontational? It seems like all you're doing here is dissing other members. I hate that.

just a objetive conversation, im posting arguments not speculations, why you hate that???

You do understand what base numbers are don't you, grunt2?
You claim to have been well-versed and read when it comes to engineering and aerospace technology, correct?

No country, be it Russia, be it China, be it India, etc., releases fully disclosed data on advanced weaponry systems, be they aircraft or MBTs, etc. Furthemore, no country places such information for open access and discernment on the internet making such national security secrets and advantages readily available and known. If countries did, grunt2, there would be no need for security clearances and national security interests and secrets.

Please, continue to enlighten us to what you really know, k?

As such, would you please enlighten those who do not know what base numbers are, as applied to aeronautical engineering, by explaining what they are and meant for?





seekerof

[edit on 4-8-2005 by Seekerof]

yes but the really max speed numbers are again relationated more with dive speeds, special athmospheric conditions etc.

in engineering we work with margins not exact numbers, sometimes you can reach more, sometimes less

also you are overating that "is secret" argument, right now the aerospace forums should be busy making corrections of the older planes that have left service from loooong time ago, like the f86, mig 15, f100, f104, etc..



[edit on 4-8-2005 by grunt2]