Originally posted by grunt2
RichardPrice, the supercruiser speed of the "proto" f22 was M1.58, that is in clean test configuration, an supercruiser of M2 is only a stupid speculation, all that come from a report for a tv show!!!!, but the pleople when see or read that just dont care....because they want believe what they whish

the f22 is very public, all the max speed of the all planes are classified information, but again these speeds aren the max operative, are more like the f86 supersonic dive flight

the f22 isnt a top secret plane, not like the f117 was, again the raptor lovers say "its classified", but only to avoid the reality

Nobody said the F-22 is classified, but almost ALL USAF fighters have a classified top speed. But I guess the SR-71 just had a really good day when it hit Mach 3.2 and got lucky. It didn't really fly that fast according to your reasoning. Even the F-15 which is 30 years old is STILL Listed at Mach 2.5+.

Zaphod58.........what the hell are you saying!!!, the sr71 max operative speed is M3.2!! but it can reach slightly lucky higher speeds

the f15 have a max M2.5, but is totally unpractical, because to reach such speeds you really must burn almost all the fuel, and it takes loooong time-because all the engines that it use are based in high bypass machines-, the eagle wasnt designed for such speeds, actually the max real operative speed is near M1.8

the faster plane in the US military aviation is -or was- the f14a, which truely could reach M2.3, in the f14d that was changed to M1.8 by the use of high bypass engines

[edit on 3-8-2005 by grunt2]

You were the one that said that the top speeds were from getting "lucky" and perfect conditions, so if it's true for the F-22, then it must be true for EVERYTHING in the inventory. So according to what you're saying the top speed is either rounded up to make it look better, or is taken from a flight under only certain conditions when it can go faster. And as far as the SR, there was nothing "lucky" about it. It ROUTINELY went faster than 3.2. Let me refresh what you said....

"the reports of the M1.58 supercruiser velocity are from the pre-production planes actually these machines can reach near max M2 at full power under special conditions"

"the information and the interpretation depends in the source and the receptor, if you have a bad reception, you will end with a loooot of missinterpretations so there arent liers, the f22 can reach higher speed, yes, the f111??, yes, the mig 29??? yes, but all under favourable conditions, that dont mean the rule "

"well, atually the performance of all planes are classified, but the max "secret" speeds are more relationated with dive speed, a "lucky run", -cold air, and pressure stabiliation -not low pressure spaces in the air- etc... "

[edit on 3-8-2005 by Zaphod58]

one thing is level operational speed and othe is induced higher speeds, again the max speed of the f86 is subsonic, but in a dive it can reach supersonic

It ROUTINELY went faster than 3.2. Let me refresh what you said....

ohhhh noooooo another myth

[edit on 3-8-2005 by grunt2]

Oh right! I'm sorry, I forgot that any stories by pilots are lies because they want to make the plane look better! stupid me!

Try reading Sled Driver and The Untouchables before you start throwing things like that around. Written by an SR71 PILOT who went faster than Mach 3.2 EVERY MISSION he flew.

look i dont want to start a fight for the sr71 pride, there are pilots that also are idiots, only because are pilots you put them as gods....tsss fanboy, try to read a good engineering book, not that crap , the max operational speed of the sr71 is M3.2, it can reach higher speeds??, yes, but all the planes can do that

they want to make the plane look better! stupid me!

dont worry, i forgive you

If you read the books, you'd learn what it takes to fly an SR71. I'm not a fanboy of anything out there. Do I like the SR? Yes, but that doesn't make me a fanboy. You don't just give something like an SR or an F-22 to an idiot who thinks he's a god. Brian Schul is actually one of the smartest most down to earth people I've ever had the privelage of hearing speak. Learn what you're talking about before you start mouthing off next time.

seriously i must consider that the "above M3.2" can be 3.25-3.22 etc..like the tipical numeration of +M1.5, +M2 etc, so maybe the pilot could be right, i dont have problem with that, if is the case i was wrong to say that the pilot was a idiot

the problem is that most people in this forum see the planes as national symbols but not as simple machines

Originally posted by grunt2
the problem is that most people in this forum see the planes as national symbols but not as simple machines

A bigger problem is people who hate certain nations and thier symbols and do everything they can to downplay what they are capable of.

Originally posted by grunt2
the problem is that most people in this forum see the planes as national symbols but not as simple machines

Planes are national symbols. If you have even been abroad and seen AF1 comming for a landing you will understand.

Concord is yet another example. etc etc etc.

AMM, i dont hate USA, i have some friends from that country, when i have said "evil americans" or "imperialists" etc???..., only because the facts arent compatible with your fantasy im a USA hater??????,pathetic and ridicoulus

After referencing I would suggest the 3+

I'm not a pilot, but I've been known to be an idiot from time to time.

At any rate, it would not be an uneducated assumption to consider the Raptor as capable of greater than publicized speeds.

Remember though, there are facets of the intelligent community that wish for our enemies and potential enemies to believe that we have technology from "out of this world", literally. Why? It's a hell of a deterant.

[edit on 08/12/71 by Esoteric Teacher]

Planes are national symbols. If you have even been abroad and seen AF1 comming for a landing you will understand.

is very sad that you have such way of thinking, so we never will have a objetive discussion, and the myths will growing and growing....

[edit on 3-8-2005 by grunt2]

Remember though, there are facets of the intelligent community that wish for our enemies and potential enemies to believe that we have technology from "out of this world", literally. Why? It's a hell of a deterant.

ohh no this is becoming in a paranoid thread????

Originally posted by grunt2

Remember though, there are facets of the intelligent community that wish for our enemies and potential enemies to believe that we have technology from "out of this world", literally. Why? It's a hell of a deterant.

ohh no this is becoming in a paranoid thread????

Um,.... not paranoia to state the fact that former and current members of the intelligent community of our government have made statements that can only be interpritted to facilitate a thought process that is consistant with what I stated above.

I think you just interpritted that statement to mean I support that particular concept either way, I'm simply sumerizing what's been said. Don't read anything else into it.

[edit on 08/12/71 by Esoteric Teacher]

There IS a lot of national pride in aircraft design, what's wrong with that? I'd rather see people fighting over who has the better airplanes, than fighting WITH the airplanes. If people want to take pride in the planes their country builds, then more power to them.

Yes, it is a well.known fact that planes ahve to be very lucky to reach their top-speeds... However it wouldn't make any sence to put the top-speed of a plane taht is made in bad conditions, Cos' taht aint' the planes real
top- speed if you understand me...

Figher Master FIN, isnt if the planes can reach the max speed is about if the planes can reach ABOVE their max operational speed, under bad conditions the planes reach below operational speeds, but in normal conditions the machines reach the operational velocities


[edit on 4-8-2005 by grunt2]